Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (11/17/00)

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:34:52 -0800

Date: 11/21/00

SUBJECT: 11/17/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*, [Todd Westerhoff], Ian Dodd*,
                               Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Fabrizio Zanella, Brian Arsenault,
                               Terry Jernberg, Alexander Nosovitski,
                               Elena Gutman, Shan Haq
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora, [Kellee Crisafulli],
  (Now merged with Innoveda)   Gene Garat, John Angulo*, [Al Davis],
                               Lynne Green
IBM                            Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes
Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems)   Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, [Jun Tian],
                               Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar,
                               Sigeti Gabi, Tudor Secasiu, Dave Lorang*,
                               Michael Mirmak*
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad,
                               Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*, Son Huynh, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy, Scott Estrich
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       Ron Werner
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker, Kathy Breda,
                               Jinhua Chen
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc.          (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin*,
                               Jean-Yves Oberle
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Tyco Electronics (AMP)         (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              Werner Rissiek, John Berrie

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Aerospatiale Matra CCR         Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie
Alcatel (Lannion, Bell)        Daniel Peron, Steven Criel
Cereva Networks                Bob Haller
ECI Telecom                    Daniel Adar
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Fraunhofer Institute           Michael Kurten
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
KAW                            Shinichi Maeda
Hewlett Packard                Paul Gregory
RCI                            Chris Rode
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
ST Microelectronics            Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Thomson-CSF                    Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak,
                               Sylvie Lasserre
Transfer                       Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Hideki Fukuda, Al Davis

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  December 8, 2000    (916) 356-9200   8-177128         7335175
  December 22, 2000   (916) 356-9200   8-177130         3124243

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Michael Mirmak joined from Intel.  Michael has been involved in modeling for
about four years and works closely with Arpad Muranyi.

Yong Phan of Micron Technology is a new member of a signal integrity group.
He has previously done memory design.  Yong's interest in IBIS is related to
signal integrity issues.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that Philips Semiconductor has purchased an ibischk3 parser
source code license.

Cecilia Fleming reported that she will be sending out invoices for IBIS Open
Forum Year 2001 membership in the beginning of December 2000 so that members
can choose to use the remainder of the 2000 budget, if needed.  Guy de Burgh
has some updated contact information.  Bob asked Guy to send to Cecilia his
current list.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The October 27, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved with the following changes:
Greg Ledenbach's position was changed from Secretary to International
Secretary of IEC TC93.  The EIA IBIS Open Forum official web site at the end
of the minutes needs .org added.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq got several responses regarding updating the
Roster.

Bob Ross reported that two more academic papers now exist at the link:

  http://www.eln.polito.it/Ricerca/emc/papers.html

The first one is: I.S.Stievano, I.A.Maio, "Behavioral Models of Digital IC
Ports from Measured Transient Waveforms," Proceedings of the 9th Topical
Meeting on Electrical Performance of Electric Packaging (EPEP2000),
Scottsdale-Phoenix, Arizona, October 2000.  The second is: F.G.Canavero,
I.A.Maio, I.S.Stievano, "Black-box Identification of Digital Devices for
Radiation Prediction," Proceedings of the 4th European Symposium on
Electromagnetic Compatibility, Brugge Belgium, September 2000.  Presentations
are given for both papers.  Both of these papers along with another previously
reported paper mention IBIS.  However they suggest a more general behavioral
black-box approach. 

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob found some more Motorola links for clock drivers, 

  http://www.mot-sps.com/clocks/dtools/designtools.html

Mike LaBonte reported that he has updated the Models link of the IBIS Home
page.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that the header
information reported previously has been forwarded to IEC.  She will get some
further status from Greg Ledenbach, International Secretary of IEC TC-93.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Jean-Claude
Perrin stated that the proposed new document has been approved by IEC TC93
as a new CDV.  Upon approval, the document will be issued as a public report
for other committees including the IBIS Open Forum to consider.  Jean-Claude
plans to present the document at the European IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled
in March 2001.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross stated, as previously
reported, that D.C. Sessions invites IBIS members to participate at the next
JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 meetings December 6-7, 2000 in Kona, Hawaii.  Contact
D.C. if you are interested for a Chairman's invitation.  Mike LaBonte plans
to attend.

FUTURE SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross stated that the next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29,
2000 in Santa Clara, California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 -
February 1, 2000).  Bob Ross noted that National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor
of this meeting and will provide the lunch.  Milt Schwartz is planning for
50 lunches.  Milt commented later that all the arrangements have been made.
DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of
DesignCon 2001.  We also plan to have a passive IBIS booth on the exhibit
floor for literature and interaction.  Bob stated that he expects to get the
first notice out in early December.

Bob also stated that early plans have been made for the European IBIS Summit
meeting to be held March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design
Automation and Testing (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit.  Bob indicated that
four companies are now planning to co-sponsor the meeting:  Cadence, Innoveda,
Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases).

Information on these events exists at the Upcoming Events Links of the IBIS
Home Page.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo reported no further activity on a previously reported model.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Ian Dodd reported that the Connector Working group is developing proposals to
automatically name pins.  It is meeting weekly.  More members are welcome.

Bob Ross noted that Meetings were held October 31, November 9 and November 14,
2000 and the next one is scheduled November 21, 2000.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Mike LaBonte reported good progress on the last meeting held November 7, 2000,
which now meets about every two weeks.  Stephen Peters has volunteered to
develop a top-level specification document.  The Working Group has been
focused on the internal details of the macro language and needs a more general
document.  Mike also stated that new members are welcome, particularly anyone
interested in writing documents.  The next meeting is scheduled for November
21, 2000.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross gave the current status of the ibischk3 bug fixes being done by Atul
Agarwal.  BUGs 36 - 46 have been fixed.  BUG34 is still pending along with 
final resolution of BUG47.  

Bob indicated that Atul had questioned what was intended regarding BUG46.
Specifically, it stated that certain min-typ-max values should be entered so
that the min values are less than or equal to the typ value, and the max value
is greater or equal to the typ value.  An older fix for BUG19 just reported if
the typ value was outside of the min-max range and did not test if whether
the min column was numerically smaller than the max column.  It is sometimes
not clear when to apply the more stringent test.  For example, the voltage
range  and voltage reference values could have negative values with the max
voltage larger in magnitude, but more negative than the other voltages.

The resolution was to apply BUG46 to just the [Package] entries L_pkg, R_pkg,
and C_pkg.  That was the concern that caused BIRD46 to be initiated. 

- BUG47 - Change Waveform Mismatch Warning to Error and Warning
  Bob introduced BUG47 by noting the updates by Matthew Flora per the AR of
  the October 27, 2000 meeting.  The updates clarified that proposed message
  applied for both Error and Warning messages.  Also the message will state
  V_fixture_min and V_fixture_max if these values are selected instead of
  V_fixture for the end point test between V-T data and V-I data.

  The group approved BUG47 and scheduling to fix it in a future ibischk3 
  release.

- BUG48 - Warning Message for Vref, Cref, Rref, Vmeas in Wrong Models
  Bob introduced BUG48 authored by Michael Mirmak.  There are two problems.
  No Warning is issued when Vmeas, Vref, Cref, and Rref are included in models
  such as Input or Terminator models which cannot be outputs.  Also, a
  misleading Warning is issued based on the output not passing through the
  Vmeas thresholds for Input models.  Such a Warning is inappropriate because
  it implies configuring the model as an output.  Michael added that BUG48
  is similar to the test in BUG42 which issues warnings when input thresholds
  exist on models without any input mode.

  After some discussion, BUG48 was classified as ANNOYING (because of the
  inappropriate Warning), LOW, and OPEN.  It will be scheduled to be fixed in
  a future ibischk3 release.

- BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels
  Michael introduced BUG49 which deals with unreferenced or dangling models
  within IBIS files.  Michael indicated that an unreferenced model may be
  produced by a model developer putting in a similar, but wrong name somewhere
  else.  There is no Warning for such a mistake.

  Ian Dodd stated that for FPGA models, the developer might want to list a set
  of models that are available.  In this case another Warning message would
  just add to the clutter of Warning messages that a user needs to go through
  to find the significant messages.  The model developer might find some
  messages useful, but the model user might want a more limited set.  Ian
  suggested that we might want to consider an optional command line to 
  specify what messages to issue.  Bob Ross objected to this approach because
  all messages would have to be reviewed.

  Michael suggested that Submodels might be treated differently than models.
  Submodels are not used for FPGAs.

  Someone mentioned that the message did not discuss models issued by the
  [Series Pin Mapping] keyword.  Bob stated that we need more time to consider
  BUG49.  Comments can be made on the IBIS reflector.

  BUG49 was classified as ENHANCEMENT, LOW, and OPEN.  More discussion is
  planned at the next meeting to decide on how to resolve BUG49.

- BUG50 - Error Message for Out of Order C_comp Values
  Michael introduced BUG50 to report an Error if the C_comp values were not
  positioned by value appropriately in min, typ, and max columns.  Michael
  noted that the positioning of the values was specified in IBIS in the
  Notes on Data Derivation Section.

  Bob suggested a Warning message be issued since there might be some legacy
  models with incorrectly positioned values.  Michael pointed out that at
  least one EDA tool issued an Error if the C_comp values were not in the
  correct positions.  Michael encountered this problem while working with
  real models.  Roy Leventhal added that IBIS model development discipline
  needs to be enforced.  Bob agreed to accept BUG50 issuing an Error message.

  BUG50 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, and OPEN.  After future discussion,
  the group approved scheduling BUG50 to be fixed in a future ibischk3
  release.

Bob stated that the ibischk3 release process involves checking the test cases
and building executables for several operating systems.  Matthew normally
builds the Windows executable.  Syed Huq normally builds the Linux executables.
Guy de Burgh will build the remaining executables for various Unix operation
systems (a job Chris Rokusek has done in the past).  Bob would like a release
this year so that one or two important fixes that make ibischk3 consistent
with the IBIS Specification are distributed.

Based on the discussion Bob will communicate with Atul regarding what is
needed for a quick release of ibischk3.  Bob will ask if BUG47 and BUG34 can
be included in the current release in a timely manner.  Otherwise the fixes to
BUG34 and possibly BUG47 will be deferred.  The additional BUGs after BUG47
will be not be included in the current release.

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
Bob Ross stated that the committee resolution for the BIRDs could be Yes,
No, Abstain, or Defer.  Unlike some administrative decisions, the IBIS Open
Forum would like to achieve at least nearly unanimous consensus on technical
issues rather than rely on legal, majority approval.  A BIRD approval is just
the first step.  The actual document needs to be approved by at least an 80
percent vote to show industry support and consensus.  So one can vote to Defer
in order to spend more time on details to avoid future issues.

Bob briefly introduced BIRD61.1.  It was originally introduced in August 1999.
BIRD61.1 introduces for Input models the keyword [Receiver Delay] and provides subparameters Start_point, End_point, and Slope to describe input test
waveforms.  Tables of delays in terms of these parameters are proposed and the
EDA tools are supposed to build an internal models.  These models would
capture the delay variations seen by the actual input signal.

Stephen Peters, a co-author, stated that BIRD61.1 seems to lack support.
Some people felt that such variations would be better handled in the IBIS-X
approach which actually specifies the building an internal model.  BIRD61.1
just gives the external, test information from a black-box point of view.  So
the committee did not make any progress with BIRD61.1.

Ian Dodd and Bob both indicated that they did not know how to use the
information given in BIRD61.1 to create models.  Bob added that it had not
been prototyped as suggested.  Bob did not even know how much data is needed.
Bob also mentioned that Al Davis was going to contact D.C. Sessions to find
out more details, but Bob thought the intent was related to how the functions
might be implemented in IBIS-X.

Bob called for a vote. 

BIRD61.1 was rejected by a 1 YES (by mail), 7 NO votes.

BIRD64.3 - ALTERNATE PACKAGE MODELS
Mike LaBonte introduced BIRD64.3 by indicating that the functional intent of
BIRD64.3 for different package models was similar to the [Model Selector]
for models.  However, there were some differences.  Mike issued BIRD64.3 to
deal with some discussion and concerns expressed at the October 27, 2000
meeting and some IBIS reflector discussions.

Bob Ross stressed that the functional details had not changed.  The current
changes were really based on syntax preferences and conventions.  Bob still
had a few details to consider.  We have decided not to follow the same
conventions as in [Model Specification] and have even made changes to 
reinforce the differences.  Mike indicated that the [Model Selector] uses
the first model as the default, whereas in [Alternate Package Models] the
default package model is still given by [Package Model] keyword.

In response to a question, Bob stated that we could approve BIRDs with small,
minor changes agreed upon at the IBIS meeting.  We would issue the new BIRD
with minor revisions after the meeting.  However, if the changes were
substantial and changed the functionality, a new BIRD would need to be issued
and remain stable for two weeks before voting to provide the opportunity for
adequate review.

Roy Leventhal asked if BIRD64.3 could handle devices with package variations
based on thermal effects.  Mike stated that package model list could be based
on any effects.

Bob wanted "may" to be changed to "shall" in two locations to conform to some
grammatical guidelines for standards.  "May" indicates permission or choice.

Bob questioned the meaning that [Alternate Package Models] follow [Package
Model].  Does this mean somewhere after or immediately after.  While the
[Alternate Package Models] would normally be positioned immediately after
the [Package Model] keyword, there is no technical reason to restrict its
location under [Component].  Most keywords do not have a location restriction.
Mike LaBonte did not see any reason to restrict the location.  So the Usage
rules sentence should be changed to remove the "follows" restrictions.  The
only restriction remains that [Package Model] needs to exist for [Alternate
Package Models] to be syntactically correct.

Bob also wanted a clarification note that the package model named in [Package
Model] can be repeated in the list of models under [Alternate Package Models].
Bob felt that a user might change the default, but would not also want to
remove or add an entry into the [Alternate Package Models] list.  Mike agreed
to this addition.

Finally, Bob stated he preferred a different name such as [Additional Package
Models] or [Package Model List].  No one supported this at this time, so Bob
will accept the existing [Alternate Package Models] name.

Because we were running out of time, Bob deferred having a quick vote (and
possibly being cut off at mid-vote.  This will give an opportunity to issue
BIRD64.4 with the editorial changes.  The vote on BIRD64.4 is scheduled for
the next meeting.

AR - Bob Ross work with Mike LaBonte to issue BIRD64.4 with the editorial
changes agreed upon at this meeting.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Not discussed.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Scheduled for a vote, but not discussed.

BIRD67.1 - INCREASE V-T TABLE 100 POINT LIMIT
Scheduled for a vote, but not discussed.

BIRD68 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED
Not discussed.

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 8, 2000 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.  BIRD64.4, BIRD66, and BIRD67.1 are scheduled for a vote.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798
            [email-masked]
            Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems
            270 Billerica Road
            Chelmsford, MA 01824

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================