Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (10/27/00)

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:57:46 -0700

Date: 10/30/00

SUBJECT: 10/27/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*,
                               Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq*, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Fabrizio Zanella, Brian Arsenault,
                               Terry Jernberg, Alexander Nosovitski,
                               Elena Gutman, Shan Haq
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora*, [Kellee Crisafulli],
  (Now merged with Innoveda)   Gene Garat, John Angulo*, [Al Davis],
                               Lynne Green
IBM                            Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes
Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems)   Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian,
                               Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar,
                               Sigeti Gabi, Tudor Secasiu, Dave Lorang*
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad,
                               Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff, Son Huynh
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy, Scott Estrich
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       Ron Werner
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker, Kathy Breda,
                               Jinhua Chen
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions*, Todd Andersen
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc.          (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin,
                               Jean-Yves Oberle
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Tyco Electronics (AMP)         (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              Werner Rissiek, John Berrie

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Aerospatiale Matra CCR         Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie
Alcatel (Lannion, Bell)        Daniel Peron, Steven Criel
Cereva Networks                Bob Haller
ECI Telecom                    Daniel Adar
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming
Fraunhofer Institute           Michael Kurten
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
KAW                            Shinichi Maeda
Hewlett Packard                Paul Gregory
RCI                            Chris Rode
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
ST Microelectronics            Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Thomson-CSF                    Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak,
                               Sylvie Lasserre
Transfer                       Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Hideki Fukuda, Al Davis*

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  November 17, 2000   (916) 356-9200   8-160063         1329512
  December 8, 2000    (916) 356-9200   To be issued
  December 22, 2000   (916) 356-9200   To be issued

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that Brocade Communications has joined the IBIS Open Forum
as an official member, and their entry has been moved to the Voting Member
list above.  We now have 35 members.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The October 6, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved without any changes.  Bob Ross
noted that people often e-mail changes and corrections shortly after the
Minutes are sent, and the changes get reported at the next meeting.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross commented that the last financial report of the year gives the best
information.  The monthly reports sometimes give income (such as membership
payment) and expenses (the various allocations) as a pro-rated year-to-date
entry, and some other items as their total amount.  So, in the September report
the dues income entry would actually be multiplied by 4/3 to get the actual
income.  Based on this, we have exceeded our we exceed our budgeted income.
The 2001 budget will show an increase of Salaries & Benefits payment to EIA
from $9000 to $12000.  We are now approaching the break-even point again.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that the article "IBIS and SPICE Revisited" by Jon Powell
appears in the October 2000 issue of Printed Circuit Design, pp. 28-32.  This
article mentions some recent committee developments.

Bob also reported that IBIS was mentioned in the October 2000 issue of IEEE
Spectrum in the article "Modeling for Printed-Circuit Board Simulation" by
Anil Balaram, pp. 70-74.  D.C. Sessions added that while the article mentions
IBIS several times, it really does not cover the signal integrity aspects.

Bob also reported that the book High Speed Digital System Design, A Handbook
of Interconnect Theory and Design Practices, by Stephen Hall, Garrett Hall,
and James McCall, published in 2000 by John Wiley mentions IBIS and all of the
I-V and V-T behavioral concepts in Chapter 7, "Buffer Modeling".

Also the book Digital Signal Integrity, Modeling and Simulation with
Interconnects and Packages, Brian Young, published in 2000 by Prentice Hall
mentions IBIS several times.

Syed Huq has provided some Web page updates and Roster Updates.  The official
EIA/IBIS-656-A Version 3.2 specification is now located under the Spec link.

Syed will also send a message on the IBIS reflector to ask for Roster Updates.
Guy de Burgh stated that he has been following up directly on some known
membership change situations, but has not received responses yet.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported NEC Corporation IBIS models for memories exist under the
Simulation Models links from NEC at:

  http://www.ic.nec.co.jp/memory/english/model/index.html

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) has some embedded processor models at:

  http://www.amd.com/products/epd/desiging/tsdocs/1.ibismodel/index.html

Lucent Technologies has another link for network and communication ICs:

  http://www.lucent.com/micro/netcom/products/pdh.html

Also, an LSI Logic link has been updated:

  http://www.lsilogic.com/products/storage_standard_prod/oem/ibis_models/

Mike LaBonte reported IBIS models from GSI Technology at

  http://www.gsitechnology.com/models1.htm

Mike plans to update the Models link with this and other information.  He also
provides valuable information and observations regarding the content of the
libraries.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross - BIRD67 - Increase V-T Table 100 Point Limit
Dave Lorang - BIRD68 - Clarify that Rising and Falling Waveform Tables Should
              be Correlated
D.C. Sessions - V-T Table Compression

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Bob Ross worked with Stephen Peters and
other IBIS Officers and Cecilia Fleming to draft header information based on
some updated requirements from IEC regarding scope and historical background.
This complies with the AR of the October 6, 2000 IBIS Meeting.  The new
information has been added to the ANSI/EIA-656-A document and has been sent to
Greg Ledenbach, Secretary of IEC TC-93, who has forwarded it to IEC.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
got a report from Jean-Claude Perrin stating that they have done some
verification measurements on ICs.  They are also doing measurements relating
to PCB radiation.  Jean-Claude will propose in the TC93 Plenary meeting to
write the document as a CDV to create a public working document.  His plan
is that a future release of IBIS might take the IEC document into account.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - D.C. Sessions invited IBIS members
to participate at the next JEDEC JC-16 and JC-42 meetings December 6-7, 2000
in Kona, Hawaii.  Contact D.C. if you are interested for a Chairman's
invitation at his ibis e-mail account:

  [email-masked]

D.C. stated that Mike LaBonte plans to attend.

D.C. also stated that some interesting technical issues are being raised in
the JEDEC JC-16 committee.  JEDEC discussions are closed, but he can report
as Chair that some public methods to increase the eye-diagram opening in
DDR performance has been done using a capacitance to ground.

FUTURE SUMMIT PLANNING
The next IBIS Summit Meeting is planned on January 29, 2000 in Santa Clara,
California along with DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2000).  Bob
Ross noted that National Semiconductor is a co-sponsor of this meeting
and will provide the lunch.  Milt Schwartz will continue to assist in the
arrangements of this meeting.  DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result
of IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001.  We also plan to have a
passive IBIS booth on the exhibit floor for literature and interaction.  We
will be sending out meeting notice information about six weeks before the
meeting.  Some other deliverables are due in November to be included in the
conference literature.

Bob secured a  meeting site for the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held
March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing
(DATE 2001) conference and exhibit.  Bob has co-sponsorship again from Mentor
Graphics and Zuken (Incases) and is seeking other co-sponsors as well.

Information on these events exists at the Upcoming Events Links of the IBIS
Home Page.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo has asked the vendor of the model reported at the October 6, 2000
meeting some questions on it.  John is still waiting for resolution before
distributing the model.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Bob Ross reported on two Connector Working Group meetings held on October 10
and October 17, 2000.  The discussion continued on the For/Next syntax, the
possibility of eliminating the Physical Model, and other subjects.  There
exists some support for keeping the Physical Model, so the issue is subject
to more discussion.  The next meeting is planned on October 31, 2000.

Ian Dodd added that there is ambiguity regarding having the output pins named
differently from the input pins.  Ian also added that the Working Group would
like to see more participants.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Bob Ross mentioned that Working Group meetings were held on October 10 and
October 24, 2000.  The next meeting will be held on November 7, 2000.

Mike LaBonte stated that the Working Group discussed data sets beyond the
typ, min, and max columns allowing more columns.  Al Davis still expects the
prototype by the end of November 2000.  A Working Group goal is to have
documentation available for the DesignCon 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting.

V-T TABLE COMPRESSION (New Item)
D.C. Sessions commented that Philips IBIS models have the V-T time data points
optimally compressed and distributed.  He can provide a Perl script to do
this.  This script may be made public for Web distribution.  At this time
contact D.C. directly for information (see the IBIS Roster Listing link).

Al Davis commented that points that are too closely spaced might cause
simulation problems because of discontinuous derivatives.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarwal does not see any problems in implementing
the approved BUGs through BUG46.  [Added note after the meeting - Atul did
estimate he could do the work by mid November 2000.]  Atul may need help on
pending BUG47.

- BUG47 -  Change Waveform Mismatch Warning to Error and Warning
  We deferred discussion and resolution of BUG47 pending the revised wording
  proposal.  Matthew Flora had some revisions, but they were not sent out.

AR - Matthew Flora work with Mike LaBonte to revise the message report text
of BUG47.

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
D.C. Sessions stated that there has been no movement on BIRD61.1.  He is
calling for a vote.  There was some discussion.  Bob Ross felt that there were
still some technical concerns.  The committee had been viewing the IBIS-X or
future IBIS direction as a possible solution rather than doing further work on
BIRD61.1.

Al Davis wanted to contact D.C. off-line to understand some of the concerns
and to discuss how IBIS-X might implement and prototype the ideas.  The
outcome might a new BIRD for the existing IBIS format based on some tested
ideas.

Bob stated that BIRD61.1 will be scheduled for a vote at the November 17, 2000
IBIS meeting.

BIRD64.2 - PACKAGE MODEL SELECTOR
Bob Ross introduced BIRD64.2 briefly by noting that the AR from the October 6,
2000 meeting to position the new [Package Model Selector] keyword under
[Component] had been complied with by Mike LaBonte.  Mike is now listed as a
co-author.

Some aspects of BIRD64.2 were clarified.  Al Davis was concerned with the
differences in scoping and syntax between [Package Model Selector] and the
[Model Selector].  We discussed some of the reasons for the differences
including different calling conventions and scoping.  Michael Cohen stated
that one of the differences was based on the fact that spaces are technically
allowed in package model names, but not in model names.  So the second column
under [Model Selector] can be a description column.  The names also have
different character length requirements.

During the discussions Michael commented that the value of BIRD64.2 is that
package model selections can be set up automatically by script or manually
through a graphical user interface (GUI).  Bob noted that the 40 character
name should provide sufficient description of the choices.  However, BIRD64.2
does not give any machine readable information about the content of each
package model choice (such as typ, min, max or even and odd mode).  So the
application would be set up on a part-by-part basis.

A vote was called for BIRD64.2.  During the vote, Mike LaBonte expressed some
reservations on BIRD64.2 from the preceding discussion.  He felt that the
positioning should be different.  After some more remarks, the vote was
continued with three choices:  Yes, No, or Defer for revision.  The vote was
8 Defer, 1 Yes, and 1 Abstain.

Mike will work on the text of the changes to be ready for the next IBIS
meeting.

AR - Mike LaBonte issue the changes as BIRD64.3 by Friday, November 3, 2000
to be considered for a vote on the November 17, 2000 meeting.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Not discussed.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Michael Cohen called for a vote on BIRD66.  Bob Ross scheduled the vote for
the November 17, 2000 IBIS Meeting.  Bob noted that some discussion items
concerning it could be brought up then.  D.C. Sessions commented that JEDEC
technologies have reference voltages that change significantly with supply
voltage changes.

BIRD67 - Increase V-T Table 100 Point Limit
Bob Ross and Ian Dodd co-authored BIRD67 in response to the AR from the
October 6, 2000 meeting.  Bob introduced BIRD67 by noting that it increased
the allowable number of point in V-T tables to 1000 points.  He stated that
IBIS puts limits on all parameters.  We do not want to have arbitrarily large
files generated by model providers (just to be conservative), but we also do
not want to put size constraints that compromise accuracy.  The 100 point V-T
limitation can sometimes cause accuracy limitations based on existing
automated methods to generate IBIS buffer models.

Bob stated that one commentor felt the limit should be 1001 points to allow
equally spaced integral time values such as 0 nS to 10 nS in 10 pS steps.
Several people commented that producing models with 1000 points is not
encouraged.  V-T files with only as many points as possible is still the
preferred method.  The group felt that setting the limit to 1001 points would
encourage producing unnecessarily large files with 1001 points.

Bob mentioned that Bob Haller sent a note to the IBIS reflector stating that
that the 100 point limit on I-V tables should also be increased to 1000 points
for the same reasons given for V-T tables.  After some discussion, the
committee felt that this additional increase in points should be considered in
a separate BIRD.  BIRD67 should only deal with V-T tables.

Michael Cohen commented that the ANALYSIS .. section of BIRD67 discussed the
ambiguity of whether NA lines were counted as points on for each V-T column.
Michael stated that this should be made clear and resolve.  Bob Ross felt that
the Committee intended to use the most conservative interpretation consistent
with ibischk3.  This interpretation would interpret 1000 points as the number
of time entries regardless of whether or not that line contained columns with
NA entries.  D.C. Sessions suggested changing the word "points" to "rows" to
formally clarify this ambiguity.  Bob agreed to make the change and issue
BIRD67.1 in time for a vote at the November 17, 2000 meeting.

AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD67.1 with the 1000 points clarified by 1000 rows.
[Done]

BIRD68 - Clarify that Rising and Falling Waveform Tables Should be Correlated
Dave Lorang introduced the recently issued BIRD68 by stating the need to
have both the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables time correlated
to each other in a manner that preserves any relative TCO delays for each
edge.  Dave stated that for correct intersymbol interference analysis the
relative delays need to be preserved.  If EDA tools need to remove initial
"lead-in" time, they need to remove the same amount from both edges.

Al Davis added [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables also need to be
time correlated with each other for differential buffer modeling.

Several other points were brought up.  Stephen Peters noted that the time
reference in BIRD68 needs to be clarified further.  Some text refers to the
input threshold trigger point.  Also, we need to consider whether to use a
sub-parameter to state that the model was produced with the [Rising Waveform]
and [Falling Waveform] relative delays preserved.  This would be applicable in
the next version of IBIS and would be consistent with backwards compatibility.  The discussion will continue at the next meeting.

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, November 17, 2000 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.  BIRD61.1, BIRD64.3, BIRD66, and BIRD67.1 are scheduled
for a vote along with BUG47 message resolution.
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798
            [email-masked]
            Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems
            270 Billerica Road
            Chelmsford, MA 01824

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================