Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (8/11/00)

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:38:16 -0700

Date: 8/15/00

SUBJECT: 8/11/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*,
                               Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                (Fabrizio Zanella),
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat,
                               John Angulo*, Al Davis*, Lynne Green*
IBM                            Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes
Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems)   Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian,
                               Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, 
                               Sigeti Gabi
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad,
                               Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       Ron Werner
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc.          (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin,
                               Jean-Yves Oberle
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Tyco Electronics (AMP)         (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              Werner Rissiek, John Berrie

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Aerospatiale Matra CCR         Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie
Alcatel (Lannion, Bell)        Daniel Peron, Steven Criel
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
ECI Telecom                    Daniel Adar
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Fraunhofer Institute           Michael Kurten
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
Hewlett Packard                Paul Gregory
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
ST Micorelectronics            Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Thomson-CSF                    Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak,
                               Sylvie Lasserre
Transfer                       Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Hideki Fukuda

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  August 25, 2000     (916) 356-9200   4-347958         9918979
  September 14, 2000  IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross announced that Robinson-Nugent a new official IBIS Member joining
several other companies involved in developing connectors.  Bob also expects
another semiconductor vendor to join shortly.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The July 21, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross reported that Roy Leventhal submitted some documents by from 3Com
related to IBIS Models and signal integrity.  These have been uploaded in the
training directory under the subdirectory 3com-docs:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/training/3com-docs/

Roy added that a readme file still needs to be generated to clarify the file
contents.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq has provided some Roster and FAQ updates.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Mike LaBonte is planning to update the IBIS Model page with some new model
links shortly.  Part of the process is to recheck the links.

Bob Ross reported some new links containing IBIS models:

Dallas Semiconductor:

  http://www.dalsemi.com/products/telecom/designtools.html

Fujitsu (split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation):

  http://www.fujitsu.co.jp/hypertext/Products/Device/
          CATALOG/AD05/IBIS/index_e.html

Hitachi Standard Logic and Memory models (split into two lines to avoid
mailer truncation):

  http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Sicd/English/Products/logic/
          simulation/logic_simulatee.htm

  http://www.hitachi.co.jp/Sicd/English/Products/memory/
          simulation/memory_simulatee.html

Integrated Circuit Systems (ICS):

  http://www.icst.com/products/ (IBIS Files link and product links)

Lattice Semiconductor (need to register):

  http://www.latticesemi.com/whatsnew/  (for IBIS Model additions to site)

Level One Communications (part of Intel)

  http://www.level1.com/product/ibis.html

Mitel Semiconductor (Follow Design Support, Support Data, Download Type: IBIS
  Models (Link Broken):

  http://www.mitelsemi.com/index.htm

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming reported that she is trying
to meet with the internal EIA contact on issues.  Bob Ross stated that we
will probably still need to help draft some header information.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
stated that he is waiting for some updated information that he can upload or
distribute.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Bob Ross commented that the next IBIS Summit meeting will
conflict with a JEDEC meeting held elsewhere.

PCB EAST 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING
Bob Ross discussed the pending IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled on Thursday,
September 14, 2000 in Worcester, Massachusetts and held along with the
PCB East Conference 2000.  The IBIS meeting will be at the Crowne Plaza hotel,
a few blocks from the PCB East Conference.

Bob reported that Mentor Graphics is joining NESA, Cadence and HyperLynx as
co-sponsors.  We may need one or two more sponsors.  Bob still needs to contact
Kathy Breda on this and other local arrangements.

The first announcement sent out.  Bob plans to have another announcement
issued next week.  Bob discussed further agenda plans.  We plan to devote
blocks of time to the Connector Model Specification and to IBIS Futures.
The Connector Working Group plans to have some presentations.  Mike LaBonte
commented that the IBIS Futures group will also have some information.  Arpad
Muranyi also expects a Code Based Modeling presentation.  Bob noted that one
presentation is already scheduled:

  Roy Leventhal, 3com, - "IBIS and SI at 3com"
    (Presented by Mike LaBonte, Cadence)

DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING
Bob Ross review the planning done to date on the IBIS Summit Meeting held
with DesignCon 2001 in San Jose, California.  DesignCon 2001 is scheduled from
January 29, 2001 to February 1, 2001.  The IBIS Summit Meeting is currently
scheduled on Monday, January 29, 2001.  

Bob commented that he received a revised agreement to serve again as Associate
Sponsor of DesignCon that appears to meet our expectations.  We do expect to
have one of the larger rooms.

Milt Schwartz will be handling the signups and the local logistics.  Milt also
confirmed that National Semiconductor will again host the lunch.  Guy de Burgh
stated that Innoveda will provide the backdrop for the booth.  Bob expects
that Jon Powell, who has many of the velco backed 8-1/2 by 11 inch member
company logos will be asking for updates and logos from member companies which
have already provided them.  These will be put on the backdrop.  So far only
a passive display with some EIA/IBIS handout information is planned.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported that another Texas Instruments model has been sent
out for review. The model was generated based on some new IBIS model
development software.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED)
Bob Ross stated that the Connector Working Group continues to be active and
to be making progress.  Two meetings were held on July 25, 2000 and August 8,
2000.  It will continue to meet on a bi-weekly basis every Tuesday.

A short term goal is to have a document available by the IBIS Summit Meeting
in September for IBIS Open Forum Review.  The current Working Group draft
has about 45 pages, and we are still working on internal technical details
to assure internal syntax and technical consistency in order to stabilize the
syntax.  Some Swath matrix clarification and expansion details are now added.
Ian Dodd commented on the value of the technical improvements.  Bob stated
that some of the technical details concerning the Swath matrix will probably
be discussed at the September 14, 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Mike LaBonte reported on IBIS Future Working Group meeting progress.  Meetings
have been held on a bi-weekly basis on July 25, 2000 and August 8, 2000.  The
Working Group will now be conducting meetings on a weekly basis every Tuesday.

The main topic of discussion is to continue reviewing the contents of the
macro language proposal authored by Al Davis.  This is also referred to as
IBIS-X.  The overall running thread is: how advanced should this be?  Should
it be flexible enough to cover all of the needs that we can foresee?

A general discussion followed.  Arpad Muranyi commented that even Spice is
not flexible enough.  A procedural language that supports equations and
elements as a function of a number of parameters might be needed.  On the
other hand, a less advanced extension would take less time for EDA simulator
vendors to implement.

Lynne Green suggested a one year and three year goal.  Al Davis commented that
a shorter term, simpler solution could still be done in a manner that would
support the longer term, more complicated extensions.  He feels that we need
to do the simple stuff first and not hold up IBIS-X.  Arpad is leaning toward
the advanced side to deal with some new technologies.  Arpad elaborated that
even in Spice, new features of the MOSFET model need to be hand coded.  A code
based Spice model that uses equations would get around this problem.  The
current IBIS-X proposals are similar to this.  The extensions needs to include
integration and differentiation along with addition, subtraction, division,
and multiplication.  A presentation will be given at the IBIS Summit Meeting
on this subject.  John Angulo commented that an application programmable
interface would be needed for code based models.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross reported that he still needs to check on on the status of the BUG
fixes since several new BUGs were sent to Atul Agarwal.

- BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Needed
  Bob commented that we are still waiting for any proposed wording changes
  to the Warning message per the AR.  Bob will follow up on this with Matthew
  Flora.

  AR - Matthew Flora to propose revised wording for the BUG42 Warning message.

- BUG46 - Warning Message Missed for Typ Outside of Min and Max
  Bob Ross introduced BUG46 that was submitted by Matthew Flora.  Matthew
  normally submits bugs and often locates where the problem exists in the
  source code.  The sample in BUG46 showed where the L_pkg typical value
  was smaller than the min value and larger than the max value.  That also
  made the max value smaller than the min value.  No Warning was issued.

  Michael Cohen questioned whether I-V tables were checked.  That would be a
  problem since max points may not always be greater than typ or min points.
  Bob commented that BUG46 tests only apply to discrete L, R, and C elements
  that should be entered by magnitude.  Someone commented that no Warning
  message should be issued if the min or max values are equal to the typ
  values.

  There was some discussion on the abundance of Warning messages.  While all
  Warning messages need to be checked, too many will reduce the confidence of
  valid IBIS models.

  Bob classified BUG46 as an Enhancement, Low and Open.  We will decide at the
  next meeting whether or not to have it fixed.

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
Not Discussed.

BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODEL SELECTOR
Bob Ross opened the discussion on BIRD64.1 by noting that this topic had been
introduced last year.  There is some discussion in the November 19, 1999 IBIS
Minutes in which several options were discussed.

Arpad Muranyi, who authored BIRD64.1 stated that different package models
could be selected by loading different [Component] models.  So technically
BIRD64.1 was not needed.  Michael Cohen expressed the emerging need to have
package model corner choices for the same [Component] so that the EDA
simulation tool could do the selection.  Loading a new [Component] or using
other methods (such as scripts) is inefficient and difficult to automate.

Michael stated that the package model typ, min, and max choices could 
correspond to length tolerances.  Michael proposed other nomenclature such
as typ, slow, fast.  Arpad stated that even and odd mode package models are
issued to give uncoupled equivalents for the range of coupling interactions.
This also gives a range of values similar to length tolerances.  So other
nomenclature may not apply.  Bob noted that the main intent is to document
tolerances on the package model paths, not different package options.  

Michael commented that the current BIRD64.1 covered what he needed.  Bob noted
that the ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION and ANY OTHER BACKGROUND
INFORMATION sections gives some more background.  There are some interactions
with other IBIS rules that prevent the [Package Model Selector] to be similar
to the [Model Selector].  One problem is that package model names may have
spaces.  BIRD64.1 uses a comment character to note the description of each
package model.  However, EDA tools usually do not display comment information.

In order to promote reflector discussion and final resolution of these issues,
Bob is planning to have a vote on BIRD64.1 at the next (August 25, 2000)
meeting.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Bob Ross noted that BIRD65 had been authored by Arpad Muranyi and also had
been discussed in the November 19, 1999 IBIS Minutes.  Arpad noted that
portions of C_comp could be attached to up to four supplies (power clamp
reference, ground clamp reference, pullup reference, and pulldown reference).
Bob noted that BIRD65 uses actual capacitance values rather than percentages.
Arpad stated that the reason for splitting up C_comp was to get better
accuracy for ground and power bounce simulations and simultaneous switching
output simulations.  

Bob noted that Arpad was planning to issue a BIRD65.1 that included
documenting the four capacitances as a function of voltage.  While some people
would favor doing this, Bob felt that we should not include such tables in
IBIS Version 4.0 because of the added complication and because of some
undefined interactions with other keywords which need to be considered.  For
example, the interactions of the capacitance tables and the [Rising Waveform]
and [Falling Waveform] tables need to be considered within the framework of
existing EDA tool simulation algorithms.  Details of how typ, min, and max
columns C_comp columns need to be addressed.  Al Davis stated that capacitance
as a function of voltage can be easily handled with the IBIS-X macro language.
So Bob suggested that we do not include C_comp as a function of voltage for
BIRD65.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Not discussed.

100 POINTS ISSUE
Earlier in the meeting Bob Ross commented that some IBIS Version 4.0 BIRDs
need to be issued.  These include one to deal with Simultaneous Switching
Output (SSO) per the work by Dr. Bernhard Unger, and also one on increasing
the number of points.  Time ran out before this topic could be discussed
further.

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, August 25, 2000 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.  BIRD64.1 is scheduled for a vote.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798
            [email-masked]
            Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems
            270 Billerica Road
            Chelmsford, MA 01824

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================