Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (2/25/00)

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:39:17 -0800

DATE: 2/29/00

SUBJECT: 2/25/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
  Hewlett Packard              Paul Gregory
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Ballesteri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd,
                               Donald Telian
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         Bob Haller, Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                (Fabrizio Zanella),
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
H.A.S. Electronics             (Haruny Said)
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat,
                               John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green
IBM                            Michael Cohen*
Incases                        (Werner Rissiek)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella*
Motorola                       Ron Werner
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker
NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions*
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens                        Bernhard Unger
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan*, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Viewlogic Systems              Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh, Jun Tian,
                               (Jon Powell)

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  March 17, 2000      (916) 356-9200   4-299298         8432634
  March 31, 2000 - DATE 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting (No Bridge)

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bob Ross noted that Viewlogic Systems plans to change its name to Innoveda.
We will change the participants list when this change is formalized.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that another connector company plans to join the IBIS Open
Forum.

Cecilia Fleming will send out invoice reminders in March.  We have payment
from about 20 companies so far, but have not received payment from many of
the most active participants.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The minutes of January 14, 2000 were approved without change.

Bob Ross corrected the company name to Advansis for Mikio Kiyono on the
January 31, 2000 IBIS Summit Minutes and made minor editorial corrections.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq added KAW and Apt Software to the IBIS
Participation Roster.  Syed also updated the Upcoming Events.  He also broke
out the Articles link into Articles, Presentations, Tutorials, and IBIS
Summit Meetings.

Bob Ross mentioned that the article "Cadence Rolls Intel Xeon Kit" on page 58
in the February 21, 2000 issue of Electronic Engineering Times references
usage of IBIS Version 3.2 models.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that two Infineon Technology ATM IBIS Models exit at:

  http://www.infineon.com/products/commics/abm.htm
  http://www.infineon.com/products/commics/aop.htm

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming reported that this IEC has
possibly approved this document December 1999, but the publication target is
around August 2000.  We need to look into this further.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Bob Ross had no updates.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
will meet with the group in Paris on Thursday, March 30, 2000 before the
IBIS Summit Meeting.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
asked D.C. Sessions to report on this during the JEDEC/IBIS Working Group
meeting scheduled below as an agenda item.

DESIGNCON 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK
Bob Ross asked for any feedback.  Bob felt that the meeting was successful
and we had good discussion on the IBIS future direction issues.  The IBIS
Booth was also successful and served its purpose as a meeting place and also
to demonstrate connector and accuracy measurements.

JEDEC/IBIS WORKING GROUP MEETING REPORT
Bob Ross gave a report on the JEDEC/IBIS Working Group meeting based on the
brief notes that were appended to the January 31, 2000 IBIS Minutes.  These
notes are repeated here:

------------

              JEDEC/IBIS WORKING GROUP MEETING - BRIEF NOTES

Date/Time:  Thursday, February 3, 2000, 1:00 PM - 5:00 PM
Location/Host: Philips Semiconductor, San Jose, CA, D.C. Sessions

Title:  IBIS as a Specification Language

Attendees:

  IBIS:  Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics
         Kellee Crisafulli, HyperLynx
         Fred Ballesteri, Applied Simulation Technology
         Mike LaBonte, Cadence Design Systems
         Richard Mellitz, Intel
         Arpad Muranyi, Intel

  JEDEC: D.C. Sessions, Philips Semiconductor (Chair JC-16)
         Gil Russell, Infineon Technologies (Chair., JC-16.2)
         Howard Sussman, Sanyo

Driving Force:  Advances in DDR DRAMS

Specification Needs (more clarification needed):

  1. Differential Output Coupling at the Buffer to Pad level
  2. A delta C_comp limit for buffers at the component level
  3. SSTL-2 Input enhancements (BIRD62.2, BIRD63.2)

Application Needs:

  1. Relative Pad Delay (Skew in delay to pad)
  2. Return Path details (possibly using Dr. Unger's SSN approach above)
  3. Input Modeling (initially BIRD62.2, BIRD62.3

An IBIS Working Group on consisting of (at least) Arpad Muranyi, Kellee
Crisafulli, Mike LaBonte, D.C. Sessions and Richard Mellitz will work on
these issues and generate proposals.

Next JEDEC and JC-16 and JC-42 Meetings:
  Friday, February 4, San Jose, California
    Report on the JEDEC/IBIS meeting and on future work

  Approximately March 7, 2000, Atlanta, Georgia

------------

Bob confirmed the above date for JC-16, and Stephen Nolan stated that JC-42
would meet on March 6, 2000.

D.C. Sessions reported on the JEDEC Meeting held on February 4, 2000.  The
main action of interest to the IBIS Committee was to create a DDR SDRAM
IBIS model.  JEDEC member companies will submit their IBIS models and the
goal is to come up with a composite model that can be used for specification.
D.C. asked for IBIS committee volunteers to help.  So far one manufacturer
has supplied their IBIS model.  Others have been promised.   Bob initially
suggested using the IBIS Model review committee.  However, D.C. wanted more
technical assistance.  Bob and others will help.

Since a number of manufacturers are competitors, there is sensitivity
regarding who sees the models.  D.C. asked the IBIS Committee to draft a
letter of intent preserving the confidentiality of the individual IBIS
models while helping construct the composite model.  Normally these models
are copyrighted.  This letter of intent would allow the IBIS Committee to
distribute the model.  Bob wanted to take this issue offline with D.C.  Bob
saw no problem, but wanted to clarify some of the administrative issues and
move on to other agenda items.

Stephen Nolan indicated that other JEDEC subcommittees will also need to
create specification IBIS Models.

DATE2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross reviewed that the DATE2000 IBIS Summit meeting associated with the
Design Automation and Testing in Europe conference is planned to be held in
Paris, France on Friday, March 31, 2000.  The meeting is planned to run
from morning to early afternoon.  Cadence Design has joined Incases,
Viewlogic and Mentor Graphics as co-sponsors.

Presentations planned so far cover these subjects (not necessarily the
exact titles):

  Behavioral Receiver Modeling
  Patrick Dos Santos, Cadence Design Systems

  IEC EMC/EMI Standardization Update
  Jean Claude Perrin, Texas Instruments

  Siemens IBIS Modeling Requirements for Semiconductor Vendors
  Gerald Bannert, Siemens

  Tips and Tricks for Creating IBIS Models
  Cary Mandel, Viewlogic

  Validation IBIS Models
  Sherif Hammad, Mentor

Bob plans some discussion of IBIS 4.0 and IBIS future plans.

A few other presentations are welcome.  The second announcement has been
sent out.

The signup contact person for this meeting will change due to maternity leave.

COOKBOOK STATUS
Stephen Peters had no report.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported that another model from Galileo Technology has been
sent for review.  Matthew is also contacting other people to update the
distribution list.  We are seeking EDA vendor who will be able to simulate
the models on their tools and provide knowledgeable feedback and suggestions
directly to the model developer on a confidential basis.  This is to help
the model developer provide IBIS models which are valid and useful to all
EDA vendor products.

BIRD62.3 ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVER THRESHOLDS
Bob Ross stated that while BIRD62.3 had been scheduled for a vote, we had a
recent changes to this and BIRD63.3.  The IBIS Open Forum normally requires
two weeks between final posting of an item for voting and the actual vote.
This allows all interested parties to have an opportunity to review the
pending document and prevents surprise changes.

Stephen Peters outlined the changes.  These changes were made in response to
Bob's e-mail comments.  Besides some notation changes, the main changes were
to introduce new subparameters for differential specifications.  These
included Vcross_min and Vcross_max.

Michael Cohen expressed concern that we are not using [Model Spec].  D.C.
Sessions and Stephen reinforced that the min and max corners in [Model Spec]
were had combined effects that differed from the definitions for Vth.  The
Vth_min and Vth_max conditions are deviations under typical conditions, and
a formula is used to created the corner cases.  This is documented in
BIRD62.3.

Milt Schwartz commented on the need for a differential load DC offset limits
that might be measured at a split resistor common point.  BIRD62.3 only
deals with receiver thresholds.

D.C. reinforced the need for BIRD62.3.  In fact, he wanted to know and
report at the next JEDEC meeting the level of EDA tool commitment to
implementing the proposed [Receiver Thresholds] keyword.  Bob expected EDA
vendors to implement this feature, but in accordance to their product
development cycles that are not made public.

Bob stated while he would prefer not having the complications introduced by
BIRD62.3, he was convinced that [Model Spec] would only be used for about
one-half of the added functionality.  He saw the need for BIRD62.3 based on
the following reasons:

  - Recent JEDEC standards related to SSTL, and recent LVDS standards are
    using the terminology in BIRD62.3.  Also actual component data sheets
    are using this terminology.

  - The variation of the external reference used for threshold cannot be
    correctly handled using the [Model Spec] keyword.

  - This proposal through the Vinh_ac and Vinl_ac adds new parameters that
    are similar to the margins used for receiver analysis.

Arpad Muranyi noted the need for CMOS thresholds as a percentage of Vcc.
Stephen stated that this would be covered.  Milt asked if hysteresis inputs
were covered.  D.C. stated they were not and also that hysteresis inputs
were undesirable because of potential timing skew problems.  More discussion
occurred regarding the need for the new keyword.

Bob had some syntactical comments concerning conventions.  He noted that
a large list of voltage subparameters had a mixture of actual voltages,
(Vth, Vth_max, Vth_min, Vcross_max, Vcross_min), delta voltages (Vinh_ac,
Vinh_dc, Vinl_dc, and Vinl_ac), differential voltages (Vdiff_ac, Vdiff_dc),
and a sensitivity designated by Vth_sensitivity.  Bob also noted that Vth,
Vth_max and Vth_min followed existing IBIS conventions.  However, Vcross_min
and Vcross_max did not have a "typical" counterpart.  Stephen proposed
renaming the subparameters to Vcross_low and Vcross_high.

The Vdiff_ac and Vdiff_dc are clear since "diff" is used.  Also, after some
discussion, the "ac" and "dc" portions of Vinh and Vinl could signal
differences from Vth.  This would maintain the terminology that is similar
to what JEDEC is using.

Since all voltage subparameters begin with "V", the Vth_sensitivity may
be confusing.  Stephen plans to change this to Threshold_sensitivity.

Finally, Stephen agreed with Bob's comment that the term Reserved Words was
incorrect for some enumerated strings: Pullup_ref, Pulldown_ref,
Gnd_clamp_ref, Power_clamp_ref, and Ext_ref.

Stephen planned to issue BIRD62.4 with these changes.  Bob will schedule
BIRD62.4 for a vote at the next meeting.

BIRD63.3 DOCUMENTATION OF RECEIVER SETUP AND HOLD TIMING CONDITIONS
Bob Ross introduced BIRD63.3 by questioning what the simulator tools are
supposed to do with the [Tester Spec] information, as documented.  A
separate database would already contain the setup and hold times that were
extracted in compliance with documented tester conditions of BIRD63.3.

Michael Cohen thought the proposed [Tester Spec] was required, but noted
that many data sheets do not have the proposed information.  Bob stated that
this keyword was optional.

D.C. Sessions commented that this was the glue between analog and timing
simulation.  Stephen Peters thought that the simulator vendors would use
this information under circuit simulation.  D.C. stated that the intent was
to provide an input timing limit.  It was not intended to document changes
in delay as a function of input wave shape.  This is done in BIRD61.1.

Stephen asked for clarification of the amplitudes of the input swing and
at what points to measure the delay.  D.C. stated the voltage should go
between Vinh_ac and Vinl_ac.

Stephen indicated that this information could be included in BIRD62.3 as
another receiver subparameter.  D.C. and others agreed with this change.
Stephen agreed to include this in the revised BIRD62.3.  Stephen stated that
his AR was to issue BIRD62.4 with all of the changes discussed today
(February 25, 2000).  [Done]

Bob will schedule BIRD63.3 for a vote at the next meeting, but with the
expectation that BIRD63.3 will be rejected.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Not Discussed.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED)
Roy Leventhal commented on the need to get this specification approved and
wanted to move faster on it.  Bob Ross also wanted to move faster, but we
have been spending time on IBIS 4.0 and IBIS futures issues as well.  D.C.
Sessions suggested that Bob issue a progress report on the Connector
Specification on what is firm and what is unknown.

Bob stated that he did not plan to do this.  Instead, he noted that there
was not any real know issues with the technical content in Version 0.93.
The syntax and conventions are still being reviewed.  Also we need to
continue to address some of the areas of difference with IBIS Version 3.2.
Justifiable differences are OK, but we all need to understand and reach
collective agreement on them.  Otherwise the changes may just reflect
(probably valid) personal preferences, but may not of sufficient importance
to conflict with the conventions set in IBIS Version 3.2.

Since progress is going slowly, Bob suggested that he get with Gus Panella
and Kellee Crisafulli off line to get agreement on some syntax and convention
issues.  This will avoid taking up teleconference time.  (We can bring the
remaining open issues to the IBIS Open Forum.) 

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Not Discussed.

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
Not Discussed.

BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR
Not Discussed.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Not Discussed.

IBIS BUG TRACKING
Although scheduled at the end, this topic was discussed at the early part
of the meeting.  Bob Ross had planned to have some new ibischk3 BUG reports
ready for discussion and also formally discuss the solution proposals within
BUG34 (No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers).  Bob
does plan for discussion at the next meeting.

Bob stated that a new ibischk3 bug was reported.  We made a change in IBIS
Version 3.2 (from IBIS Version 3.1) where series elements now can connect
to pins that contain Input and I/O and Output models.  Before, only NC and
Terminators were permitted.  Unfortunately, the series tests for ibischk3
were not updated for this change.  So ibischk3 will report an error when
a series element is correctly connected to pins containing Input, I/O and
Output buffers.

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 17, 2000 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.   BIRD62.3 and BIRD63.3 are scheduled for voting.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            114715 N.E. 95th Street
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================