Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (6/30/00)

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:59:00 -0700

Date: 7/5/00

SUBJECT: 6/30/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*,
                               Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                (Fabrizio Zanella),
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat,
                               John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green
IBM                            Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund, Jerry Hayes
Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems)   Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian,
                               Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz, Charles Phares, Meir Nakar, 
                               Sigeti Gabi
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad,
                               Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal, Ken Bakalar
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed, Carleen Murphy
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       Ron Werner
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions, Todd Andersen
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan*, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin,
                               Jean-Yves Oberle
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Tyco Electronics (AMP)         (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              Werner Rissiek, John Berrie

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Aerospatiale Matra CCR         Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie
Alcatel (Lannion, Bell)        Daniel Peron, Steven Criel
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
ECI Telecom                    Daniel Adar
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Fraunhofer Institute           Michael Kurten
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
Hewlett Packard                Paul Gregory
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
ST Micorelectronics            Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Thomson-CSF                    Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak,
                               Sylvie Lasserre
Transfer                       Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Hideki Fukuda

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  July 21, 2000       (916) 356-9200   6-234828         2232822
  August 11, 2000     (916) 356-9200   6-234930         7474775
  August 25, 2000     (916) 356-9200   4-347958         9918979
  September 14, 2000  IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Guy de Burgh is checking and updating some primary and secondary IBIS
membership names that exist on the roster so that we have an
accurate list of contacts. He is following up on some known
changes.
Treasurer's report: Cecilia Fleming reported no change.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The May 26, 2000 and June 8, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Cecilia Fleming reported that she had moved the IBIS web site to the
EIG server.  You will be re-directed to the new site on Wednesday.
Currently there is a notice that the site has moved.
Cecilia Fleming has corresponded with the Webmaster (Syed Huq) about
this move.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Mike LaBonte reported that he has taken a copy of the existing
Web page and is checking and fixing broken links.
He is approximately 50% of the way through this. When completed he will
give this to Syed Huq to post on the IBIS web site.
The current page still exists, which shows Jon Powell as Librarian.
When the new page is ready Mike will contact Jon to see if he
has received any new updates. Mike hopes to have the new page completed
by the next meeting.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
No report.

DAC 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK
Guy de Burgh reported that all the presentation material and the minutes
are now uploaded. The presentations can be found in:
 
   http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jun00

PCB EAST 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING
Need other sponsors.  So far, Cadence and NESA will be a co-sponsors.
Guy de Burgh will send out an email to invite others to be sponsors of
this event.

DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANNING
DesignCon 2001 is being held again in San Jose California from January 29,
2001 to February 1, 2001.

Guy de Burgh reported that Bob Ross is working on preliminary arrangements
for the EIA IBIS Open Forum to be an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon 2001.
We have benefited from this arrangement the last few years.

DesignCon 2001 is being held again in San Jose California from January 29,
2001 to February 1, 2001.  We are planning to hold the IBIS Summit meeting
on Monday, January 29, 2001.

As a result we get to have a free, all day meeting on site and also a booth.
We are listed in the literature as an Associate Sponsor.  The terms have
been circulated to the IBIS Officers and are generally acceptable.  The
only significant change from last year is the organizers want to list the
IBIS Summit Meeting in the literature.  Bob Ross feels this is OK as long as
we can list a signup address so we can estimate the number of attendees for
refreshments and lunch.

Mike Cohen would like to know the size of the room that will
be provided, as a "standing room only" size of room would not
be acceptable. Guy de Burgh will ask Bob Ross to find out the size
of a "large meeting room".
Mike LaBonte pointed out that the signup would have to be an email
address (the Secretary's) as it would not be possible to sign up at the show.
Approval deferred to next meeting.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported that a couple of models had come in from TI.
Stephen Nolan questioned the whole value of the model evaluation procedure
as the number of responses he's received was low. The response's
he did receive were good though. He mentioned that the intent is good
but the participation is poor. Matthew Flora noted that the number of
people in the review committee is down recently. He explained how the
group works, what its goals are, and how it responds to clients.
Mike LaBonte mentioned that he reviews about 1-2 models per
month and it takes him about 1-4 hours to review each model. As the reports
are direct Mike wonders if anyone else is reviewing the same model and
if effort is being duplicated. Stephen Nolan mentioned that he will still
use the review committee for his models.
Stephen Nolan would like the committee to publish a model validation checklist.
Roy Leventhal suggested that the EDA vendors supply, under NDA, this data to
semiconductor manufacturers.
Mike Cohen asked if the committee makes recommendations if data is missing.
Matthew Flora points out construction issues, but data issues depend on
how much data is supplied by the reviewer.
Stephen Nolan is writing a model building doc. for internal use and asked
if the committee would review it. Matthew Flora suggested that this be sent
to the IBIS users reflector for review.
Milt Schwartz mentioned that created a starting point check list, which
Stephen Nolan, suggested be posted on the ibis users reflector.
Roy Leventhal will post his check list on the ibis uses reflector.

Matthew Flora would like volunteers for the review committee.
Please contact Matthew at [email-masked]

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED)
Ian Dodd mentioned that Gus Panella has put together examples of the
swath matrix that has gone out to members of the group for review.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Mike LaBonte reported that he is hosting teleconference meeting on a bi-weekly
basis since Stephen Peters is on sabbatical for several months.
Stephen will still be available to prepare draft documents and work with the
Working Group.

Two meetings on June 14 and June 27 have been held so far.  Mike reported that
Mike LaBonte reported that there was a lot of discussion as to whether the
language be targeted to current simulation capabilities or should it include
capabilities that would require modification to the simulators. He mentioned
Al Davis' macro language which has examples, but needs more documentation.
A formal specification proposal is being developed. Stephen Peters may have
this soon. Mike also reported that, since the last IBIS meeting where Mike
Cohen had asked if silicon vendors would join this committee, Stephen Nolan
from TI has joined.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
BUGS 41, 42, 43, 44 sent out to reflector for review.

- BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers
  Not discussed.

- BUG41 - Issue Warning Instead of Error for Common Differential Pin
  Stephen Nolan proposed a motion to approve that this bug be fixed.
  Approved unanimously.
  Matthew Flora then described how the bug gets fixed.

- BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with Thresholds Needed
  Matthew Flora said that a warning is appropriate, but would like to
  change the wording by adding more information and clarification to the
  message. Matthew will come up with appropriate wording.
  Arpad Muranyi suggested that we include other impossible combinations too.
  Matthew mentioned that we do not have to cover every possible
  combination, just the most common ones.
  Guy de Burgh suggested that everyone submit their favorite list to the BUG42
  reflector for review. Mike LaBonte will submit his list.

- BUG43 - Error for Zero or Negative dV/dt Ramp Data Needed
  Main discussion was on whether this should be a warning or an error.
  Matthew Flora and Roy Leventhal thought that this is a MEDIUM priority bug.
  Mike Cohen thought that this is a HIGH priority bug.
  The dV/dt data is required data whether or not you have VT data.
  Milt Schwartz uses the dV/dt data as a check of the validity of the VT data.
  Arpad Muranyi mentioned that if you have VT data you don't need dV/dt
  data but, as it is required, arbitrary meaningless numbers are put there.
  Mike LaBonte mentioned that people only look for errors, not warnings.
  Arpad suggested cross checking the dV/dt data against the VT data.
  Guy de Burgh suggested that this be an error if no VT data exists, and
  a warning if VT data exists. Arpad mentioned that the warning (or error)
  should follow the IBIS specification which specifies syntax rather than
  content.
  Matthew would like this as an error so that it stands out, as warnings
  are often ignored.
  Mike LaBonte mentioned that error and warning messages be based on
  how the model is being used. This would mean a configurable parser
  which would alleviate this particular bug.
  Matthew suggested the user be allowed to suppress specific error messages.
  This is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting.
 
- BUG44 - Warning for Parasitic Resistance Set Too High at 1000 Ohms
  Matthew Flora described the problem.
  Mike LaBonte suggested that this parameter can be determined from model data.
  Arpad Muranyi suggested a way to do this for this particular case.
  Ian Dodd suggested changing this to 50 Ohms.
  Proposal is to change this from 1000 Ohms to 50 Ohms.
  This is scheduled for a vote at the next meeting.
  It is classified as ANNOYING and LOW.

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
Not Discussed.

BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR
Not Discussed.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Arpad Muranyi described the current description of the BIRD. He would like to
extend the BIRD to include voltage dependency of C_comp. I.e. a Voltage vs.
Capacitance table rather than a single value. Milt Schwartz asked how this
data could be generated. Arpad described how it could be measured. His method
is outlined in the IBIS tutorial that he taught. The tutorial is uploaded on
the IBIS web site. Arpad also mentioned that you could have different
values for C_comp when the buffer is driving or receiving.
Arpad will update the BIRD and it will be discussed at the next meeting.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Not discussed.

NEW TECHNOLOGIES
Not discussed.

IBIS4
Arpad asked whether we should focus on IBIS4 or concentrate on IBISX.
Ian Dodd asked what was in IBIS4. E.g. what BIRDs, bugs and features are
part of it. Also why is it version 4, rather than 3.3.
Bob Ross will provide the feature list and post it on the reflector.

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, July 21, 2000 from 8:00 AM
to 10:00 AM.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Mike LaBonte (978) 262-6496, Fax: (978) 446-6798
            [email-masked]
            Senior Technologist, Cadence Design Systems
            270 Billerica Road
            Chelmsford, MA 01824

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            114715 N.E. 95th Street
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================