Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes (3/17/00)

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:04:46 -0800

DATE: 3/21/00

SUBJECT: 3/17/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
  Hewlett Packard              Paul Gregory
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram*, Norio Matsui, Fred Ballesteri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*,
                               Donald Telian
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         Bob Haller*, Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                (Fabrizio Zanella),
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
H.A.S. Electronics             (Haruny Said)
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli*, Gene Garat,
                               John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green
IBM                            Michael Cohen*
Incases                        (Werner Rissiek)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella*
Motorola                       Ron Werner
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker
NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell*, Hassan Ali*
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens                        Bernhard Unger
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Viewlogic Systems              Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian,
                               (Jon Powell)

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  March 31, 2000 - DATE 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting (No Bridge)
  April 14, 2000      (916) 356-9200   8-97978          5851557

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bob Ross noted that Viewlogic Systems plans to officially ratify its name
change to Innoveda on Monday March 27th.

Hassan Ali, an Engineer from Nortel Networks joined and is interested in
IBIS in relationship to the high-speed board issues at the tools level.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Cecilia Fleming stated that there were no new updates on new members or
payments.  Reminder invoices have been sent out.  Bob Ross asked Guy de Burgh
to work with Bob and Cecilia to follow up on some of the members to find out
what their payment status is.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
Bob Ross reported that the February 25, 2000 minutes had a used an incorrect
heading for the JC-16.2 report.  Also, Stephen Nolan sent a note to Bob that
the reference to JC-42 should be changed to JC-40 for the Atlanta JEDEC
meeting under the JEDEC/IBIS Working Group meeting report.

The above minutes were approved as modified above.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross briefly noted that the anonymous FTP access to eda.org was down
while more security measures were installed to track access.  It is now up
again.

Bob noted that the DesignCon 2000 proceedings and CDs are available at
a discount to IBIS Member companies employees.  A form was sent out on
the reflectors.  The intent was to FAX the form back, since there was not
any return e-mail address on the form.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross noted that Syed Huq updated the Upcoming Events links and also made
some IBIS Participation Roster phone number changes and also added a link.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
None

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Michael Cohen on New Technologies - introduced near the end of the meeting.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming reported that she is
finding out more about the status.  The publication time should take only
two months, not eight.  IEC approved the document December, 1999.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Bob Ross stated hearing from Dr. Hideki Fukuda (on short sabbatical)
that a write-up of the last IBIS Summit Meeting appeared in the Nikkei News.
The IMIC group is interested in looking at proposed improvements that were
discussed and are meeting on March 23, 2000 to discuss their future plans.
The group is interested in how IBIS future specifications will relate to IMIC.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
still plans to meet with the group in Paris on Thursday, March 30, 2000, just
before the IBIS Summit Meeting.

- JEDEC JC-16 - (Heading is changed to JC-16 since D.C. Sessions now is the
Chair of JC-16).   Bob Ross did not have a report of the JEDEC meeting held
last week in Atlanta, Georgia.

DATE2000 IBIS SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross reported on the DATE2000 IBIS Summit meeting associated with the
Design Automation and Testing in Europe conference is planned to be held in
Paris, France on Friday, March 31, 2000.  The meeting is planned to run from
about 8:30 AM to early afternoon to allow people to return that evening.  The
co-sponsors of the meeting are Cadence Design, Incases, Mentor Graphics and
Viewlogic Systems.

The meeting will be held in the Concorde-Lafayette Hotel, adjacent to where
DATE2000 is being held.   The arrangements include refreshments and a free
lunch for all participants.

The tentative agenda for presentations is as follows:

  Siemens IBIS Modeling Requirements for Semiconductor Vendors
  Gerald Bannert, Siemens

  Tips and Tricks for Creating IBIS Models
  Cary Mandel, Viewlogic Systems

  IBIS Accuracy Studies
  Sherif Hammad, Mentor Graphics

  TC93WG6 EMC/EMI IC Model Standardization Report
  Jean Claude Perrin, Texas Instruments

  Behavioral Receiver Modeling
  Patrick Dos Santos, Cadence Design Systems

  IBIS Future Activities (and Discussion)
  Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics

So the content of this meeting is to share information on IBIS modeling
techniques and discuss future technical and specification needs.  Open
discussions and Ad hoc presentations will be encouraged on these and other
topics during the meeting.

The official agenda will be sent out next week.

DAC2000 IBIS Summit Meeting
Bob Ross discussed the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting held annually along
with the Design Automation Conference (DAC).  The meeting will take place in
Los Angeles, California, and a room has been reserved for Thursday, June 8,
2000.  The trade show portion of DAC is held from Monday through Wednesday
June 5-7, 2000 at the Los Angeles Convention Center.  Along with election of
IBIS Open Forum officers, Bob indicated that the IBIS Summit Meeting would
probably have a few presentations and discussions related to topics of
current interest.  Connector Specification ratification issues would probably
be discussed.

Michael Cohen stressed that the IBIS Meeting should not conflict with the
DAC2000 show.  Kellee Crisafulli thought it would useful to also hold an
all day IBIS futures meeting at that time.  Bob suggested that the morning
could be devoted to the IBIS Open Forum issues, and the afternoon could be
reserved for the working group status.  Kellee indicated that a full day
would be more useful.  So the likely plan is to have the IBIS meeting on
Thursday, and the Working Group meeting on Friday.

Bob asked Guy de Burgh to handle the registration logistics.  Bob noted that
the IBIS home page Upcoming events link already contains Guy's name and some
information about DAC2000 and the IBIS Summit Meeting.

COOKBOOK STATUS
Stephen Peters had no report.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported that a model from Tundra Semiconductor has been sent
out for review.  Matthew received another model, but it needs some corrections
before being sent out.

BIRD62.5 ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVER THRESHOLDS
Stephen Peters briefly summarized some changes made since the last meeting.
A few editorial corrections were made.  The input edge rate subparameter was
split into Input_edge_rate_ser and Input_edge_rate_der to document separately
single ended receiver (_ser) and differential receiver (_der) entries.  Also,
incorrect references to relationship of the Vcross_low and Vcross_high
subparameters to min and max columns were removed.

Bob Ross spotted several more minor spelling errors and noted the examples
for Input_edge_rate_* still had the "=" sign.

Bob then indicated that he really preferred using Tslew_ac and Tdiffslew_ac
instead of the Input_edge_rate_ser and Input_edge_rate_der.  Often a generic
1V/1ns is used as the basis.  Since we are defining the Input_edge_rate for
just the delta Vin*_ac or Vdiff_ac value, we will have to calculate the
delta T.  Furthermore, since the simulators are interested only in the delta
T between crossing the Vin*_ac or Vdiff_ac voltages, the Tslew_ac and
Tdiffslew_ac subparameters would give directly the test times of interest.

Bob indicated that we scheduled BIRD62.5 for a vote.  John Angulo questioned
whether we wait on voting because the IBIS future plans were not resolved.
Several others indicated that BIRD62.5 was considered important by the JEDEC
committee.  Bob indicated that current IBIS future plans would need to
deal with this same specification.  So BIRD62.5 was applicable to both the
current upgrade of IBIS (Version 4.0) and some future direction of IBIS.

Bob suggested that we amend BIRD62.5 at the meeting to have the revised
subparameters and vote on BIRD62.5.  However, Bob noted that the text
describing the subparameters would have to be updated.  Kellee Crisafulli
stated that we really needed to see the changes before voting on them.  Bob
agreed.  Michael Cohen suggested quickly issuing BIRD62.6 and holding an
e-mail vote.  After some discussion about the urgency of BIRD62.6, we agreed
that the committee in effect agreed with pending BIRD62.6, but would hold the
formal ratification vote at the next teleconference meeting (scheduled on
April 14, 2000).  Bob noted that it is possible to modify the content as part
of the overall next version of IBIS ratification process.

AR - Stephen Peters make the changes discussed at the meeting as noted above,
and issue BIRD62.6. [Done]

BIRD63.3 DOCUMENTATION OF RECEIVER SETUP AND HOLD TIMING CONDITIONS
Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD63.3.  We planned to reject BIRD63.3 since
the information of interest was added to BIRD62.5.

BIRD63.3 was rejected by a 0 Yes, 12 No vote.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Bob Ross indicated that there may be some discussion on this topic in the
future since there were some conflicting interpretation of how Vmeas should
be used.

IBIS BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross stated that he had planned to issue BUG34 for review and issue
several other BUG reports per some previous IBIS meeting discussions.
However, he did not have time to this.  So this topic is deferred again.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED)
Bob Ross reported that Bob, Gus Panella, and Kellee Crisafulli held telephone
"editorial committee" meetings on March 8, 2000 and March 14, 2000 to resolve
off-line a number of editorial and technical issues.  This will save using
IBIS Open Forum teleconferences to deal with minor points.  Bob stated that
the group reached agreement on many issues.

Kellee stressed that we still want to finalize the Connector Specification
and vote on it by the DAC2000 time frame.  Gus reaffirmed the pressure to
get the Connector Specification finalized as soon as possible.  Bob stated
that he expects that mid-2000 ratification is possible.  He has enlisted the
help of several connector experts to review the proposed specification after
it is stabilized.

Bob briefly listed (without elaboration) the points of agreement:

  Keep proposed keyword convention including having four words
  Keep Revision History Section, but clear the existing history in the
    ratified Version 1.0
  Keep reserved words PWRGND and RET
  Line limit of 120 characters (agreed at the January 31, 2000 meeting)
  Make the 100,000 pin limit a warning, not a requirement
  Keep the number of decimal digits at five recommended, 15 maximum
  Keep the Begin/End syntax for descriptions
  Allow file names of 40 characters (IBIS has 20) to resolve an inconsistency
  Use the extension .icm (as agreed at the January 31, 2000 meeting)
  Make the specified number of text lines a recommendation
  Have only one occurrence of [Begin_Cn_Model_Family]
  Use [Support] instead of [Email] and [Web] (as agreed at the January 31,
    2000 meeting)
  Keep [Redistribution], but allow Yes, No, and Specified where the actual
    conditions are stated
  Keep the requirement that .jpg or .txt are the only formats for pictures
    since other formats could be added later
  Keep SGR for SLM formats only, but some details are still being resolved
  Allow Cn_section to have more that one cascaded section named on the same
    line (still resolving details)
  Several other editorial changes including [Comment_Char] can follow first
    keyword as in IBIS

Individuals are still permitted to question these decisions as part of the
ratification processes, but we have agreed on the above points regarding the
content of the proposed Connector Specification document.  More points will
be considered at subsequent meetings.

Kellee plans to provide an updated Version 0.94 version.  Upon further
review another revision or two may be needed.  Bob stated that when we reach
further agreement on these details, we will need to update at least some of
the examples.  Gus plans to do this.

Bob stated that one nice technical feature was to support a variety connector
formats for

  Physical connectors using a Defined Physical Pin
  Physical connectors using Swath Matrix ([Begin_Cn_Swath])
  Auto generated connectors using the Swath Matrix and [Begin_Cn_Auto_Map].

The user would specify the number of connector pins for the auto generated
connector and the simulator would read the information contained in the .icm
file to generate that connector.

The technical challenge is to ensure that all the rules and information are
consistent.  Just simultaneously specifying number of pins, number of rows,
and number of columns may introduce an inconsistency that must be checked.
Bob gave an example illustrating further complication.  The physical connector
could have between 10 and 200 pins spanning the smallest 2 rows, 5 column
connector to the largest one with 2 rows and 100 columns.  The Swath Matrix
could be defined as a 2 by 3 matrix.  We need to check that all of the
information and stated rules work in consistent manner.  Bob noted that there
already was a conflict between required ModelPinMap entry of [Begin_Cn_Model]
and the fact that the keyword [Begin_Cn_Pin_Map] is optional and not used
when [Begin_Cn_Auto_Map] is specified.  These and other syntactical
contradictions have to be checked and resolved.  Otherwise, they will become
parser development issues.

Kellee wanted these meeting to continue on a regular basis.  Because of the
IBIS Summit Meeting in Paris and other travels, Bob cannot attend these
meetings until after April 3, 2000.  Bob stated that these meetings are open
to any who is interested and requested the Guy de Burgh and Mike LaBonte join
in this editorial review activity.  The main concern will be to discuss ideas
related to the above technical issues to deal with some syntactical changes
to simplify some of the keyword parameter variations and reduce some possible
occurrences of conflicting information.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters reported that he held some internal meetings with Arpad
Muranyi and Dave Coleman and plans to hold an IBIS Futures Working Group
meeting on March 30, 2000 or March 31, 2000 at some West Coast location.
So far there is sufficient interest to hold the meeting.  Stephen named
several individuals likely to attend.  The purpose of the meeting is to
gather people who have ideas on future directions to review their proposals
and reach a consensus that will lead to a draft proposal.  While several
people are members of the IBIS Futures Working Group, other people who are
interested are welcome to attend.  Arpad commented that he wants a smaller
group who are willing to contribute and produce a consensus proposal.  It
might be counter-productive to have too large of a group.  Bob Ross does not
expect that the group will be too large.

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
Not Discussed.

BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR
Not Discussed.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Arpad Muranyi stated that the BIRD65 concept of specifying what rails
portions of C_comp are attached has been implemented commercially.  However,
the implementation format was based on using percentage rather than actual
capacitance values, as proposed in BIRD65.  Arpad asked whether he should
change BIRD65.

After some consideration, the group felt that the BIRD65 format was all right
as is.  Values are translatable into the percentage format and also the
direct entry of actual data was consistent with nearly all other subparameter
specifications.

NEW TECHNOLOGIES
Michael Cohen questioned how to the IBIS Open Forum would deal with some
new technologies that are being realized in silicon by some major vendors.
These deal with new current sensitive or current steering techniques.  The
details are still proprietary.

Bob Ross stated that if it is possible to describe in a behavioral manner the
fundamental aspects, then a BIRD should be proposed.  This has been done for
some other additions to IBIS.  Bob agreed to work off-line with Michael to
clarify this issue further.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be the IBIS Summit Meeting in Paris, France on Friday,
March 31, 2000 from 8:30 A.M. to 2:00 P.M.  There are no teleconference
connections for this meeting.

The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, April 14, 2000 from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.  BIRD62.6 will be scheduled for voting.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Viewlogic Systems
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Signal Integrity Engineer, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            114715 N.E. 95th Street
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================