Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:29:10 -0700

Date: 5/30/00

SUBJECT: 5/26/00 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2000 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com                           Roy Leventhal*
Agilent (EEsof, etc.)          Mark Chang
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram*, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*, Todd Westerhoff, Ian Dodd*,
                               Donald Telian, Patrick Dos Santos
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Irfan Elahi, John Fisher
Compaq                         [Bob Haller], Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio,
                               Shafier Rahman, Doug Burns
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                (Fabrizio Zanella),
Fairchild Semiconductor        Craig Klem
HyperLynx (& Pads Software)    Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli, Gene Garat,
                               John Angulo*, Al Davis, Lynne Green
IBM                            Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund
Incases                        Werner Rissiek
Innoveda (Viewlogic Systems)   Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Jun Tian,
                               Cary Mandel, Brad Griffin, (Jon Powell)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi, Will Hobbs,
                               Richard Mellitz
LSI Logic                      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics (& Veribest)   Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Malcolm Ash,
                               Kim Owen, Jean Oudinot, Sherif Hammad,
                               Hazam Hegazy, Weston Beal
Mitsubishi                     Shahab Ahmed
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       Ron Werner*
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Tony Sinker
Nortel Networks                Steve Coe, Calvin Trowell, Hassan Ali
Philips Semiconductor          D.C. Sessions
  (& VLSI Technology)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Gerald Bannert
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Wis Macomson
Texas Instruments              Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar, Mac McCaughey,
                               Thomas Fisher, Jean-Claude Perrin,
                               Jean-Yves Oberle
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steven Corey
Tyco Electronics (AMP)         (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2000:
Actel Corp.                    Silvia Montoya
Advansis                       Mikio Kiyono
Aerospatiale Matra CCR         Lionel Dreux, Julien Boullie
Alcatel (Lannion, Bell)        Daniel Peron, Steven Criel
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming
Fraunhofer Institute           Michael Kurten
Jet Propulsion Lab             John Treichlew
Hewlett Packard                Paul Gregory
Rockwell Collins               Ron Hau
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
ST Micorelectronics            Fabrice Boissiere, Pierre Saintot
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Thomson-CSF                    Savenrio Lerose, Pascal Vaslin, Thierry Zak,
                               Sylvie Lasserre
Transfer                       Hans Klos, Wilco Hamhuis
Xilinx, Inc.                   Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  June 8, 2000 - DAC 2000 IBIS Summit Meeting (No Bridge)

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that we are dropping two members from the list and following
up on payment details for two others.  We expect 31 paid members so far this
year.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The May 5, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that "Designers Using IBIS Models to Resolve Signal
Integrity Issues" by Paul Dewell exists on pages 29-32 of May/June 2000
issue of Electronics Journal (an advertising supplement to EETimes and
possibly other publications).  It contains a sidebar by Arpad Muranyi and
references the IBIS Home Page and the DesignCon 2000 presentation by Syed Huq.
A link exist to the article (split into two lines to avoid mailer truncation):

  http://www.avanticorp.com
                      /Avant!/EJ/Technical/Articles/Item/1,1058,201,00.html

Bob also reported that Cecilia Fleming is still following up on possible
EIA page based search engines for IBIS model location.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that a number of links have moved.  Also he has located some
other links:

IBIS Models for Analog Devices exist at

  http://www.analog.com/techsupt/licensing/ibis/

IBIS models are found by searching IBIS for Conextent:

  http://www.conextent.com/

Intel references some Intel 21xxx Ethernet LAN controllers at:

  http://developer.intel.com/design/network/drivers/ibis.htm

Integrated Device Technology Models exist under these links:

  http://www.idt.com/products/pages/FIFO_IBIS_p.html
  http://www.idt.com/products/pages/Logic_IBIS_p.html
  http://www.idt.com/products/pages/Multi-Port_IBIS_p.html
  http://www.idt.com/products/pages/Processors_IBIS_p.html
  http://www.idt.com/products/pages/SRAM_IBIS_p.html

Some new sites from Motorola and On Semiconductor are:

   http://www.mot.com/SPS/MCTG/MDAD/switch/

under the Tools, ATMC and WarpLink(tm) links and also

  http://www.onsemi.com/pub/prod/0,1824,products1_models,00.html

for LCX.

IBIS Models for Texas Instruments for the FCT family from Cypress and Flat
Display exist at:

  http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/tools/logic/models/fct_ibis.htm
  http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/tools/msp/intrface/serdes/lvds/serdes.htm

IBIS models for TranSwitch Corporation:

  http://www.transwitch.com/support/supp_software.shtml

Ron Werner asked why we are presenting this information.  Bob commented that
this is mostly for information and to show support of IBIS.  References to
magazine articles also are given for the same reason.  However, we also have
links to free, public IBIS model sites from the EIA IBIS home page.  Bob also
noted that other models can often be found through local sales channels to
these sites and for models from other several other companies as well.  So it
is always a good idea to contact the company when IBIS models cannot be
located through Web links.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Roy Leventhal - FPGA Pinouts in IBIS Models (introduced at the end of the
                meeting.)

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Bob Ross reported that Cecilia Fleming
will be sending shortly the new document header information needed to release
the document to Bob Ross for review (by the IBIS officers).

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - Bob Ross reported that he will meet with Chairperson Dr. Hideki
Fukuda plans to attend the IBIS Summit Meeting on June 8, 2000 and will 
be meeting together prior to the meeting.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
had no further report.  We are waiting for revised documents that are planned
to be delivered about this time for uploading.

- JEDEC JC-16 - As previously reported, Bob Ross indicated that the JEDEC
group is holding a meeting that conflicts with the IBIS Summit Meeting.
However, D.C. Sessions may fly from Seattle to attend the IBIS Summit Meeting.

Bob also noted that the IBISCenter utility that was uploaded as part of the
JEDEC and IBIS training class now includes support for Solaris, Sun OS and
NT operating systems.

DAC 2000 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross gave the background information on the IBIS Summit Meeting held at
the Hyatt Regency Hotel about six blocks from the Los Angeles Convention
Center where the Design Automation Conference (DAC 2000) is being held.  The
IBIS Summit Meeting is scheduled on Thursday, June 8, 2000 after the trade
show portion of DAC 2000 (held Monday through Wednesday, June 5-7).  The room
is scheduled for all day.

Guy de Burgh reported he sent out third announcement notice and has about
20 to 25 signups.  Bob stated we are on track for the typical 25 or more
actual attendees.

Bob stated that the main topics planned so far are:

  Election of Officers for 2000 - 2001
  Connector Specification Discussion
  IBIS Version 4.0 Issues
  Future IBIS Progress and Issues

Bob listed some expected presentations and discussions:
  IBIS Report - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics
  Connector Specification, Kellee Crisafulli, HyperLynx
  IBIS Future Directions Overview - Stephen Peters, Intel
  Overview of XML - Mike LaBonte, Cadence
  Macro Language - Al Davis, HyperLynx
  Introduction to Equation Based Analog Modeling in Standard HDL Languages
    (VHDL_AMS and Verilog) - Kenneth Bakalar, Mentor Graphics

Bob stated that the formal Meeting Agenda will be sent out on Thursday,
June 1, 2000.  We plan to have ample time for interactive discussions.

ELECTION OF IBIS OFFICERS FOR 2000 - 2001
Bob Ross commmented that in response to the suggestion to make the election
more visible, nominations should be opened perhaps two teleconference meetings
before the IBIS Summit Meeting.  This year we are partially responding to the
suggestion.  While our processes are free and open, people who might want to
become involved may not be aware of how easy it is.  Ron Werner felt that we
do not really need to resort to very formal processes (e.g.,  publishing
duties, asking for position statements, sending out ballots, etc.) since
active participant should have a general idea of the tasks and processes.

Bob stated that nominations are welcome at the IBIS Summit meeting and that
the elections will be starting from the Chair position, and move one position
at a time.  So candidates not elected can still be nominated for another
available position.  Furthermore, a person can be nominated for several
positions, but once elected, that person is removed from consideration for
the remaining positions.  We are now accepting nominations (including self
nominations) for people whether or not they are able to attend the meeting for
one or more positions.  We just need to know prior to the election if each
candidate is willing to serve.

Bob asked for nominations.  The following people are officially nominated:

  Chair: Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics, Stephen Peters, Intel
  Vice Chair: Stephen Peters, Intel
  Secretary: Guy de Burgh, Innoveda
  Postmaster: John Angulo, HyperLynx
  Webmaster: Syed Huq, Cisco Systems
  Librarian: Jon Powell, Innoveda, Mike LaBonte, Cadence

You are welcome to e-mail any additional nominations before the meeting to
Guy de Burgh (address at the bottom).

PCB EAST 2000 PRELIMINARY IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross stated that preliminary reservations have been made for an IBIS
Summit Meeting in Worcester, Massachusetts co-located with the PCB East
Conference show.  The preliminary information exists on the Upcoming events
link of the EIA IBIS home page:

  IBIS SUMMIT: Thursday, September 14, 2000  8:30 AM to 5 PM (tentative)
  LOCATION:    Crowne Plaza Worcester (About 3 blocks from PCBEAST 2000)
               Worcester Metro
               10 Lincoln Square
               Worcester, MA 01608
  SPONSORSHIP: NESA and to be determined
  CONTACTS:    Kathy Breda for IBIS Summit Meeting
  PCB Conference East Location:  Worcester Centrum Centre,
                                 Worcester, MA

Mike LaBonte indicated that Cadence plans to be a co-sponsor.

ACCURACY HANDBOOK
No report.

COOKBOOK STATUS
No report.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported that no new models have been received.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW (CONTINUED)
Bob Ross reported that the Connector Specification Working Group has been
meeting regularly on May 8, 2000, May 11, 2000, and May 23, 2000 to continue
to resolve technical issues.  The next meeting is scheduled Tuesday, May 30,
2000.

Ian Dodd briefly reported on the last meeting.  Participants included Ian,
Bob, Kellee Crisafulli, and Gus Panella.  Work is continuing on describing
and clarifying the matrices representing connectors including lumped versus
distributed (transmission line) interpretations and also on pin number versus
physical location details.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
John Angulo reported on a meeting held Thursday, May 25, 2000.  John, Al
Davis, Bob Ross, Mike LaBonte, and Stephen Peters attended.

John reported that this meeting was a follow up of the meeting held on
March 30, 2000.  At that time a goal for a future IBIS was to reduce the
need for new keywords when new component families and feature are introduced.
The direction includes supporting a nodal description language.  Supporting
IMIC was discussed.  Also, behavioral level modules are still needed for
capturing functionality and while protecting intellectual property.  The new
structure could support analog and mixed analog and digital simulation.  One
need is to include pin to pad modeling is planned.  Finally, Al Davis is
continuing to work on a macro language.  Some of this will be reported and
discussed at the IBIS Summit Meeting.

After the IBIS Summit Meeting, Stephen Peters will be on a 10 week sabbatical.
However, Mike LaBonte indicated that he wants to conduct meetings on a
bi-weekly basis after the IBIS Summit meeting and is currently checking if
every other Wednesday at 10 AM West Coast time is available.

TABLE LENGTH REDUCTION
Bob Ross noted that the 100 point limit topic was introduced briefly by
D.C. Sessions at the May 5, 2000 meeting.  Discussion continued on the IBIS
reflector regarding algorithms to reduce a larger number of data point to
100 points.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
- BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Tables in Output Buffers
  Matthew Flora just issued an update of BUG34 (during the meeting) for
  simplified and revised messages.  The discussion was deferred until a later
  meeting.

- BUG41 - Issue Warning Instead of Error for Common Differential Pin
  Bob Ross noted that BUG41 was introduced in response to the Differential
  Input Specification for Single-ended Input technical discussion started
  at the May 5, 2000 meeting.

  BUG41 allows relaxing the ibischk3 parser testing of [Diff Pin] to allow
  a pin to be listed as in for more than one differential buffer.  Currently
  an Error message is issued.  BUG41 would change this to a Warning message.
  This is in response to the fact that some SSTL-2 input buffers are actually
  constructed using differential circuits but with the non-inverting pins tied
  to a common VREF pin.  Noise on the VREF line and affects output delay.
  This noise could be analyzed by treating each input as a differential input.
  Currently, ibischk3 prohibits specifying pins in this manner.  However, while
  this application was not anticipated, it is not explicitly prohibited in
  IBIS Version 3.2.

  Bob listed some arguments some pro and con arguments that he sent to the
  IBIS reflector and noted that other discussions have occurred.

  More BUG41 discussion occurred at the meeting.  Michael Cohen suggested that
  we postpone a decision on BUG41 so that the points could be considered
  offline.  Bob stated that we will revisit BUG41 at a future meeting.

  Bob classified BUG41 as ENHANCEMENT, MEDIUM, OPEN (with the action to be
  determined).

- BUG42 - Warning Message for Outputs with thresholds Needed
  Bob Ross introduced BUG42.  Currently some subparameters that do nothing
  for the specified Model_type can still be included under [Model].  The
  ibischk3 parser will not issue a Warning or an Error message.  BUG42
  proposes issuing a Warning message when the Vinh and Vinl thresholds are
  included in a model that is not Input* or I/O* (no input functionality that
  would use the input thresholds).  This alerts the developer and user of a
  potential problem that the Model_type may be wrong or the thresholds were
  included by mistake.

  Bob noted that the original purpose of ibischk was to test syntactical
  compliance.  Syntactically correct extra information was not regarded as
  a problem.

  Michael Cohen suggested we also defer consideration of BUG42 since it had
  not been issued on the IBIS reflector.

  Bob classified BUG42 as ENHANCEMENT, LOW, and OPEN (with the action to be
  determined).

BIRD61.1 - ENHANCED CHARACTERIZATION OF RECEIVERS
Mike LaBonte noted that some e-mail discussion had occurred.  Unfortunately,
because of missed communication, a scheduled meeting was not held.  Mike had
voluteered to prototype BIRD61.1, but ran into interpretation difficulties
regarding how to post process the data.

Bob Ross noted that one approach was to use the data to create a model.  We
had not pursued BIRD61.1 after some other model approaches had been suggested
in IBIS Summit meetings.  So some of the concerns remained whether BIRD61.1
was structured to supply enough.  Bob noted that an argument advanced in favor
of continuing with BIRD61.1 was that having a partial solution was better than
not having any short term solution.

BIRD64.1 - PACKAGE MODE SELECTOR
Not Discussed.

BIRD65 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Bob Ross noted that since Arpad Muranyi could not attend this meeting, the
discussion on BIRD65 is being deferred.

BIRD66 - [Model Spec] Vref ADDITION
Not discussed.

NEW TECHNOLOGIES
Bob Ross noted from previous discussions that we need still need to validate
if the AVC family with voltage sensitive output impedance control circuitry
can be modeled with existing IBIS Version 3.2.

FPGA PINOUTS IN IBIS MODELS (New Topic)
Roy Leventhal commented that IBIS models for FPGA parts typically include only
the buffers with a skeleton component header.  The actual pinout is needed for
the part.  Currently Roy solves the problem with one vendor by sending the
vendor the required pinout information, and they then add it to the IBIS model
and send the completed model back to Roy.  Roy would like a statement in the
IBIS Specification stating that each part needs a full component pinout.

Bob Ross suggested that this could be accomplished through the BIRD process
as an editorial change.  It would not involve any technical or ibischk3 parser
change.  One possible location would be as another guideline in Section 3 for
Syntax Rules and Guidelines.

Roy stated that he plans to work on this within several months.

Bob also noted that he still has some descriptive writeups sent by Roy from
his presentation at the September 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting.  The documents
are used internally at 3Com to clarify IBIS Version 3.2.  Bob preferred
that the document use more IBIS models examples, but he still thinks that
the writups are valuable.  Some of the writeups are still contain company
specific information.  Bob plans to upload the most general one in the
training directory in the IBIS FTP site.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting is the IBIS Summit Meeting on Thursday, June 8, 2000.  No
teleconference access is planned.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            114715 N.E. 95th Street
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================