Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting minutes

From: Guy de Burgh <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:27:45 -0800

Date: 2/20/01

SUBJECT: 2/16/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks)             Roy Leventhal
Agilent                        (Mark Chang)
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         (Chen Hongyu)
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
Cadence Design                 Ian Dodd*
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Compaq                         Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor        Adam Tambone
IBM                            Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
                               Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx)         Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang*,
                               Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs
LSI Logic                      Larry Barnes*
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
                               Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
                               Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad
                               Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi                     (Tam (Tom) Cao)
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
Nortel Networks                Calvin Trowell
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor          Zack Ciccone
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc.          (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
                               Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics               (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              (Werner Rissiek)

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation              Silvia Montoya
Acuson                         Kim Helliwell
AMCC                           Jeff Smith
Apple Computer                 John Figueroa
ASIS Ltd                       David Wright
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
FCI                            Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks              Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors             Danny Morlion
Fujitsu Ltd                    Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Huawei Technologies            Rachild Chen
Hyundai Electronics            Jongho Kang
Intrinsix Corporation          Steven Chin
Nokia                          Tapani von Ravner
Oak Technology                 Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group        Joseph Socha
Signal Integrity Software      Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
STMicroelectronics             Peter Hirt
Xilinx                         Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Al Davis

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  March 2, 2001       (916) 356-9200   2-508084         6782941
  March 16, 2001      European IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Pravin Patel from IBM introduced himself.  He is replacing Michael Cohen who
will be in a new position that is less directly involved with IBIS.  Pravin's
main interest is in working with and using IBIS models.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Cecilia Fleming reported that she has about 22 payments so far, with more
expected based on the latest accounting report.  Bob commented that we may
lose one member due to economic problems, but we have invoiced three other
potential members for a total of 36 invoices.

Bob reviewed the year 2000 financial results.  We have income of about
$32,100 versus the budget of $22,800.  Our expenses were $18,700 and
the revised budget of $21,400.  The net income was $18,700 versus the
revised budget of $1,400. About $6,200 of income came from non-budgeted
ibischk3 parser license payments for 2000.  Cecilia is working on the final
numbers to account for some additional membership payments made in 2000.
The profits will be handled as a reserve account to be used for future
expenses.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The January 5, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.

The January 29, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this correction:

Dr. Norio Matusi submitted a correction for the January 29, 2001 IBIS Summit
Minutes regarding the writeup of his presentation - LSI POWER AND GROUND MODEL
FOR EMI SIMULATION by Norio Matsui, Applied Simulation Technology and Hiroshi
Wabuka, NEC.

Norio adds clarification to the last sentence: "Also die interconnect details
were not simulated in this study"   He submitted the paragraph below:

  "We have modeled interconnect details in our study.  You may
  find this in two slides.  One is flow chart of modeling.  Net list
  plus CR model means that we have extracted so many inter-
  connection CR models.  You may find the result in a slide
  which shows simplified model.  A couple of capacitances both
  for power and ground are seen simplified model.  The original
  interconnection CRs are involved in the net list."

The January 29, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with the above correction
(added to the uploaded minutes).

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Cecilia Fleming reported that the Upcoming Events have been updated per an
input from Syed Huq.  Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq made some Roster updates
and added the Linux executable for ibischk3.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported some Network Switching and Routing IBIS models from Music
Semiconductor:

  http://www.music-ic.com/technical/techfiles.html

and some communication IBIS models from Cirrus Logic:

  http://www.cirrus.com/design/products/pubs/index.cfm?TypeID=14

Also Bob reported that several links list a number of Lattice Semiconductor
IBIS models.  Registration is required to get the models.  The links are:

  http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/mach4a.html
  http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/isp2000ve.html
  http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/isp5000v.html
  http://www.latticesemi.com/lit/html/ibis/ispgdx.html

Also, a link to a Real Time Video of Arpad Muranyi's IBIS Modeling Training
course delivered April 18, 2000 exists at:

  http://www.silicontech.com/home/seminar-index.shtml

Arpad Muranyi commented that this link had been up for quite a while.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that she requested
status information from IEC TC 93 Secretariat, Greg Ledenbach.  After the
meeting, she sent Bob the following response from Greg:

  "The document is published for FDIS voting. The record date was
  17-January-2001. The voting period is 26-January-2001 to 13-April-2001 with
  parallel voting in CENELEC."

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
expects at least one presentation and maybe more at the European IBIS Summit
Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross had no report from the JEDEC
JC-16 and JC-42 meetings in December 2000.  Bob received the minutes sent by
Cecilia Fleming.  There was not any significant IBIS content at that meeting.

- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes reported
that T10 is holding a meeting in California from February 20 - 22, 2001.
Information about the Committee can be found on the web site:

  http://www.t10.org/

Larry stated that the Committee is interested in producing an IBIS BIRD to
reduce drive strength upon detection of a second data bit and subsequent
bits.

Bob Ross will put the T10 Committee on the agenda for a regular report.

DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING REVIEW
Bob Ross asked for comments on the DesignCon 2001 IBIS meeting.  Bob noted
that we had an excellent turnout of 72 plus probably several more who did
not sign in.  There were some minor logistics issues that were resolved
based on the event organizer wanting to save some money.  The issues included
having refreshments in the room and scheduling the large room at the last
minute.  These issues were successfully resolved.

John Angulo commented that the IBIS-X material was well-received.

Guy de Burgh reported that the IBIS booth setup and takedown went smoothly.
About half of the EIA brochures were taken, indicating interest in our
activities.  He is keeping the remainder for another Summit meeting.  Bob
stated the the logo display looked good.  This was a passive booth that served
as a meeting place for contacting people.

DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross gave a report on the European IBIS Summit meeting to be held Friday,
March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing
in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and exhibit.  The IBIS Summit Meeting is on
the day after the tradeshow portion of the show.  Bob stated that four
companies are co-sponsors of the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics,
and Zuken (Incases).  This pays for the meeting room, refreshments and free
lunch to participants.

Two announcements have been sent out, one at the end of January 2001, and the
other on February 12, 2001.

Four presentations are planned so far:

  Parasitic IC Emisson Modeling
  Etienne Sicard, National Institute of Applied Science, Toulouse, France

  DOGEN, A Siemens Internal Model Tool, Extension 1999 - 2001
  Hans Pichlmaier, Siemens, Germany

  Experiences with and Tips for IBIS Models
  Eckhard Lenski, Siemens, Germany

  LVDS Modeling
  Hazem Hegazy and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics, Egypt

Arpad Muranyi may give an update on IBIS-X, if he attends:

   IBIS-X
   Arpad Muranyi, Intel, USA

Bob stated that the meeting will probably last most of the day.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo stated that he sent out two LVDS IBIS models from Texas
Instruments for review.

Also John is working with the semiconductor vendor concerning another model
for review.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Bob Ross noted that a meeting was held on January 16, 2001, mostly to prepare
for the IBIS Summit Meeting and also to discuss the revised Version 0.960
document.  The next meeting is scheduled on February 27, 2001 to resolve
some final details.

Bob stated that the main issues remaining are finalizing the header section
in a manner consistent with the IBIS-X work, and finalizing the expansion
code provided by Ian Dodd.

Arpad Muranyi questioned when this would be completed.  He wants to use the
Specification for package modeling and stated that we need to have a target
date for release.  Ian clarified that the first version will not have
frequency dependent losses.

After some discussion, Bob set the goal of completion of the document by the
Design Automation Conference time frame in June 2001.  The Committee needs to
review the work, and the actual public review standardization process takes
at least three months.

Version 0.960 has most of the technical content.  It does need some editorial
cleanup.  The next meeting will be devoted to the final details for release.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Bob Ross stated that Working Group meetings were held on January 9, 2001,
January 23, 2001, and February 6, 2001.  The next meeting is scheduled on
February 20, 2001.

John Angulo felt that people were interested in the IBIS-X work at the
January 26, 2001 IBIS Summit.  There was interest in differential buffers,
current mode logic and equation based modeling.

John stated that Stephen Nolan was interested in a proof of concept exercise
to validate its functionality.  The goal of the Working Group is to have a
document of the 0.9 level to be released in the June time frame for the IBIS
Summit Meeting held at the Design Automation Conference.

BIRD65.2 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Bob Ross introduced BIRD65.2 by stating that C_comp is split into four values
to be attached to up to four rails.  We have already had discussion on it at
the January 5, 2001 meeting and almost conducted a vote.  Arpad Muranyi, the
author, provided some additional clarification in issuing BIRD65.2.  There
was more IBIS reflector discussion and apparently satisfactory responses.

Arpad commented that splitting C_comp into four components was needed for a
better calculation of ground and power bounce effects for simultaneous
switching output analysis.  In response to e-mail comments by Al Davis, Arpad
stated that BIRD65.2 has been prototyped in a commercial product.  Arpad did
provide in his e-mail utilities to measure and extract the C_comp components.
Finally he reworded a paragraph to clarify that if any of the components of
C_comp_* were defined, C_comp was not to be used.  The EDA tool would issue a
Warning if the C_comp components did not add up to the optional C_comp value.

Bob noted that another issue was also clarified.  C_comp components could be
defined even if the corresponding I-V tables were not defined.  For example,
a C_comp_pullup could be defined for Open_drain models that did not have
the corresponding [Pullup] table.

Bob called for a vote.  BIRD65.2 was approved by unanimous vote.

BIRD68.1 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE
CORRELATED
Bob Ross introduced BIRD68.1 that Dave Lorang issued.  BIRD68.1 had revisions
discussed at the January 5, 2001 meeting and clarified that the input stimulus
could define the common reference point for both [Rising Waveform] and
[Falling Waveform] tables.  Bob elaborated that while BIRD68.1 was designed to
provide a more accurate analysis of intersymbol interference, the correlation
was already necessary in modeling differential buffers and handling [Driver
Schedule] and [Submodel] constructs.

It was noted that BIRD68.1 did not add any new functionality.  It clarified
the intent of the existing functionality.  With this clarification, equal
lead-in delay times could be removed from both [Rising Waveform] and [Falling
Waveform] tables for faster clock rate analysis.

Bob called for a vote.  BIRD68.1 was approved by Unanimous vote.

Bob stated that approved BIRD65.2 and BIRD68.1 would be added to the draft
Version 4.0 specification containing four other approved BIRDs that resides
in the work in progress directory:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/wip/

BIRD69 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS
Greg Edlund provided a brief introduction to BIRD69.  Greg indicated that he
had trouble getting his purchasing department to make validated IBIS models a
requirement for purchasing components.  Embedding the validation waveforms and
test circuit provides a solution where the golden waveform keywords could be
required by certain vendors.  It was noted that the golden waveforms, [Rising
Golden Waveform] and [Falling Golden Waveform] are different than the
waveforms used in producing the model.

Bob Ross commented on some IBIS reflector comments on BIRD69.  One dealt with
aligning the syntax of the test circuit more closely with some other keywords
that indicate connection to ground or power rails.  Another stated that the
Drive_model_name sub-parameter was redundant since the golden waveforms were
already in the specified driver model.

Bob also added that the equal sign "=" is used in IBIS only for numerical
assignment, and a space is used for name or argument assignment.  Greg
accepted these comments and would respond in a BIRD69.1 with changes.

Bob then opened the discussion to EDA vendors and semiconductor vendors to
ask whether they would implement the test circuit analysis or provide the
golden waveform data if BIRD69 were passed.  The general EDA vendor response
was that they would probably do other higher priority projects first unless
pressured by users or competition.  The semiconductor vendors have a difficult
enough time to provide the regular IBIS data and would not want to add to the
golden waveform data.  Then Bob asked the user community whether they would
insist on validation data per BIRD69. Greg responded that there might be
interest in doing this.  Making this a condition of purchase would force the
EDA vendors or some other vendors to add the validation and correlation
software in their products.

Bob expressed some concerns over BIRD69.  While on one hand it provides data
that is useful, but could be ignored by tools, it does add complication to the
IBIS document.  It also does not provide support for the growing need for
differential buffer validation.  (This could be handled with a separate BIRD.)
However, it may still be worthwhile to work on BIRD69 and make the suggested
changes.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
- BUG53 - BUG34 is Incorrectly Fixed in Version 3.2.6
  Bob Ross commented that Michael Mirmak issued BUG53 in response to an
  incorrect fix in BUG34.  Certain missing I-V warning messages are issued for
  cases where the I-V tables can be missing.  Since Warnings are given for
  correct models, Bob classified BUG53 as Severe, High, and Open.  BUG53 needs
  to fixed soon.

  Bob also commented that he reviewed ibischk3.2.6 and it appears to have
  correct fixes for the other BUGs.

- BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels
  Bob Ross noted that BUG49 was discussed at the January 5, 2001 meeting, but
  we ran out of time before reaching final resolution.  Michael Mirmak also
  submitted BUG49.  It called for a one time Warning message for unreferenced
  [Model]s that should have been referenced in [Pin], [Model Selector],
  [Driver Schedule], or [Series Pin Mapping].  It also provided for Warning
  messages for each unreferenced [Submodel].

  After some discussion the resolution was to add BUG49 to the list of BUGs
  to be fixed.  Currently BUGs 48-53 are on the list.  Bob noted that BUG53
  is the highest priority (to provide the correct fix of BUG34).  Currently
  users may use ibischk3 Version 3.2.6, but also may need to use ibischk3
  Version 3.2.5 to test provide assurance that the BUG53 Warning message is
  not a problem.

CONCLUDING TOPICS
In the remaining time, Bob Ross and others continued the discussion regarding
the goals of IBIS.  One issue is whether to include equation based modeling
in the first release of IBIS-X, or to conduct a staged release with it coming
in the second release .  Package modeling is not yet being addressed.  The
nodal syntax can be used, but the full package modeling should support
coupled transmission line package models.

Michael Cohen thanked everyone and stated that it was an honor to work with
the IBIS Committee.  Bob thanked Michael for his service during the past
years.

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 2, 2001, from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary)
            1800 W. Central Rd.
            Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Innoveda
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================