Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2001 13:00:54 -0800

Date: 1/9/01

SUBJECT: 1/5/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks)             Roy Leventhal*
Agilent                        (Mark Chang)
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology  (Raj Raghuram)
Avanti                         (Chen Hongyu)
Brocade Communications         (Robert Badal)
Cadence Design                 Ian Dodd*
Cisco Systems                  (Syed Huq)
Compaq                         (Peter LaFlamme)
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                (Fabrizio Zanella)
Fairchild Semiconductor        (Craig Klem)
IBM                            Michael Cohen*, Greg Edlund*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx)         Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang*,
                               Michael Mirmak*
LSI Logic                      Larry Barnes*
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi                     (Tam (Tom) Cao)
Molex Incorporated             (Gus Panella)
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
Nortel Networks                Calvin Trowell*
North East Systems Associates  (Edward Sayre)
Philips Semiconductor          (D.C. Sessions)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc.          (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG                     (Gerald Bannert)
SiQual                         (Scott McMorrow)
Texas Instruments              (Thomas Fisher)
Time Domain Analysis Systems   (Dima Smolyansky
Tyco Electronics               (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              (Werner Rissiek)

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Foundary Networks              Bertram Chan*
Independent, Consultant        Al Davis*

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  January 29, 2001 - IBIS Summit Meeting, No Teleconference

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bertram Chan joined from Foundary Networks.  Bertram described doing EMC and
SI and timing analysis in recent designs.  His interest in IBIS is in the
quality of vendor supplied IBIS models.  Bob Ross commented that this will be
a topic at the next IBIS Summit Meeting.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Cecilia Fleming reported that she has received about 15 payments so far for
the 33 invoices issued in December 2000 for 2001 membership.  Many payments
are telephoned in and made by credit card.  The telephone number is on the
invoice.  Bob Ross stated that it is often administratively more efficient in
many organizations.  Bob is still seeking a representative for one company.  He
also noted that HyperLynx is now combined with Innoveda in the IBIS
Participants list.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The December 8, 2000 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross stated that the December 8, 2000 uploaded Minutes document the IBIS
meeting participation for 2000.  The new list is started with these Minutes
for 2001.  All member companies are retained, but non-member companies are
dropped.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Greg Edlund sent out the announcements of C code and
of Accuracy Report under

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/accuracy/

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that some IBIS models exist from Fairchild Semiconductor
for the EnSigna(TM) products at:

  http://www.fairchildsemi.com/designcenter/labs/ensigna/resources/models.html

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross - Add [IBIS List] to ibis email.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming stated that she requested
status information from IEC TC 93 Secretariat, Greg Ledenbach, but has not yet
received a response.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
expects Jean-Claude Perrin to give more information at the European IBIS
Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross had no report from the JEDEC
JC-16 and JC-42 meetings in December 2000.  Cecilia Fleming stated that the
JEDEC minutes are still being prepared.  She will send Bob a copy when they
are available.

IBIS LIBRARIAN
Bob Ross restated from the last meeting that Mike LaBonte has resigned the
IBIS Librarian position as a result of accepting a new job at a start-up
company.  Bob called for nominations for the new position.  

Bob nominated Michael Cohen, but he declined based on job responsibility
issues.  Bob then nominated Roy Leventhal.  With no further nominations, Bob
called for a vote.

Roy was unanimously elected to the IBIS Librarian position.  Roy stated that
his group is currently being formed as CommWorks Corporation, a wholly owned
subsidiary of 3Com.  Roy's address is at the end of the Minutes.

DESIGNCON 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross stated again the basic information that the next IBIS Summit Meeting
is planned on January 29, 2001 in Santa Clara, California along with
DesignCon 2001 (January 29 - February 1, 2001).  National Semiconductor is a
co-sponsor of this meeting and will provide the lunch.  Milt Schwartz is
planning for 50 lunches.  DesignCon is the other co-sponsor as a result of
IBIS Associate Sponsorship of DesignCon 2001.

Bob mentioned that we have a passive Booth #861.  It is free from DesignCon
as part of our co-sponsorship.  In the past we have had some electronic
demonstrations related to the Accuracy and Connector activities.  Innoveda
is providing the booth and backdrop.  Guy de Burgh requested IBIS member 
companies to review existing company logos or to provide new logos with
Velcro backing for a visual backdrop.  The booth will be primarily a meeting
place for interaction.  Bob will bring some EIA literature.

Bob provided some tentative additions to the program (the titles may change):

  "LVDS Modeling", Hazem Hegany and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics
  "Modeling Approach for Pre-emphasis Buffers", Hazem Hegany and Mohammed
     Korany, Mentor Graphics
  "The Joy of Downloaded Models" Tom Dagostino, Mentor Graphics

The existing program so far includes:

  "Spice 2 IBIS Accuracy Report", Scott McMorrow, Siqual
  "Connector Specification Discussion", Gus Panella, Molex
  "IBIS Futures", Stephen Peters, Intel
  "SCSI-3 Compensation Modeling" Larry Barnes, LSI Logic.
 
Roy Leventhal will not be able to attend, so his presentation is removed:

  "Modeling Semiconductor Components from 30,000 Feet", Roy Leventhal, 3Com

Bob expected another IBIS-Futures presentation to be determined at the next
Working Group Meeting, probably by Al Davis:

  "IBIS-X Prototype", Al Davis, Consultant

Bob stated that we will have enough presentations and discussion items for a
full day meeting.  Bob may have an introductory presentation.  As before,
interactive discussion and even Ad-Hoc presentations will be encouraged.

Milt Schwartz reported about 10 new signups as a result of the last
announcement sent in late December 2000.  Bob estimates over 20 people so far,
including several that indicated they were attending at this meeting.  So we
are on target for the usual 30 to 50 attendees.  Bob will work with Milt to
add the program topics to the next announcement planned for next week.  A
final announcement should follow later to get a more accurate estimate for
participation and lunch (Milt has reserved room for 50).

DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross stated for the Minutes that the early plans for the European IBIS
Summit meeting to be held Friday, March 16, 2000 in Munich, Germany along with
the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001) conference and
exhibit.  The IBIS Summit Meeting is on the day after the tradeshow portion of
the show.  Bob indicated that four companies are now planning to co-sponsor
the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics and Zuken (Incases).

Bob plans to work with the co-sponsors on the final commitments, details,
time of meeting, etc.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo stated that he received a model but returned it for further works
since it failed ibischk3.

ADD [IBIS-List] TO IBIS E-MAIL (New Agenda Item)
Bob Ross stated that a request was made regarding adding to tag such as
[IBIS-List] to the subject line of IBIS reflector mail.  This is similar to
the SI list [SI-List] tag.  Bob asked John Angulo to look into this.  We are
now using an older manual mail system, but might transition to Majordomo.
John agreed to look into this.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Ian Dodd stated that the planned meeting between he and Gus Panella did not
occur on December 12, 2000.  After some discussion with Bob Ross, the next
Working Group meeting will be planned on January 16, 2001.  

Roy Leventhal asked, and Bob responded that we were quite far along on the
Connector Specification.  Ian stated that his main concern was to complete the
new formal language for naming pins in the Specification.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters reported on the IBIS Futures meeting held on December 19, 2000.
The current activity centers on writing the Header document for the IBIS-X
specification.  The macro-language for buffers needs to be formally documented
based on Al Davis' work.

Stephen presented the current issues: (1) aligning the Connector Specification
header with the proposed IBIS-X header (this may involve having the same
[Begin .. ] [End ..] syntax, and (2) including a die interconnect section
(this was one motivation for IBIS-X).

Al has released a partially working prototype to the Working Group.  It is
not ready for public release, but interested people can contact Al directly
at [email-masked] for a copy.

Stephen expects to deliver a high level overview of IBIS-X at the IBIS
Summit meeting.  Al will probably discuss the prototype.  This will be 
discussed at the next Working Group meeting scheduled on January 9, 2001.

BIRD65.1 - C_comp REFINEMENTS
Bob Ross stated that we have already approved four BIRDs in a planned IBIS
Version 4.0 release.  A work in progress draft version of IBIS Version 4.0
with these four BIRDs exists in the following directory:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/wip/

Bob introduced BIRD65.1 noting that Arpad Muranyi, the author, changed the
proposed sub-parameter names to C_comp_pullup, C_comp_pulldown, C_comp_power
and C_comp_ground to be consistent with other keywords and sub-parameters.
Bob commented that he would like C_comp_ground to be changed to C_comp_gnd to
be even more consistent.  Arpad agreed to do this.  Bob also noted that Al
Davis documented several concerns in and IBIS reflector e-mail.

Arpad gave a brief overview of BIRD65.1 indicating that there was a need to
split C_comp into four components for better return path analysis.  Bob then
asked Al to discuss his concerns and Arpad to respond.  

Al asked how the C_comp components were extracted.  Arpad responded that he
has been able to do this from Spice files using his extraction utility.  Al
asked Arpad to post this information.

Al stated that vendors often have difficulty allocating DC currents when
forming the various I-V tables.  He felt that splitting C_comp would be
equally difficult.  Arpad responded that if the right techniques are followed,
the allocation of C_comp can be done correctly (for the purposes of modeling).

Roy Leventhal wanted clarification from a higher level on why we should do
this.  Arpad responded that simulations for return path and resonances need
this added detail.  Bob asked, and Arpad responded that he has successfully
prototyped this decomposition and got improved simulation results.  There
was some more discussion about modeling level of abstraction and also
whether this level of detail created intellectual property issues.

Based on Al's comments and discussion, we needed to clarify whether BIRD65.1
intended four or five power nodes.  Al stated that BIRD65.1 might be
interpreted to mean if C_comp is provided, it is attached to an ideal ground
(node "0") reference.  Arpad indicated that he intended to have four power
nodes.  Bob and Al stated that this needs to be clarified.

Al commented that IBIS-X could handle even more general C_comp descriptions
and decompositions including voltage dependencies.

Bob also commented that the TTpower and TTgnd based C value was actually a
voltage dependent capacitor.  The decomposed C_comp terms were different and
assumed to be constant effective capacitances for the purposes of modeling.

Bob suggested deferring the vote so that BIRD65.2 could be issued and people 
absorb some of the discussion.  More responses and discussion will be done on
the IBIS reflector.  So BIRD65.2 will be scheduled for a vote at the next IBIS
teleconference meeting.

BIRD68 - CLARIFY THAT RISING AND FALLING WAVEFORM TABLES SHOULD BE CORRELATED
Bob Ross introduced BIRD68 by noting that it had been discussed previously.
It clarified further that the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] tables
should be time correlated with each other to a common time reference point.
Equal lead-in delay could optionally be removed form both edges.  The primary
reason for BIRD68 was for correct intersymbol interference analysis.  However,
in prior meetings, we noted that differential models, driver schedule models
and submodels all could have a similar implied restriction.  Dave Lorang,
author of BIRD68, concurred.

Bob noted that one issue was whether to document time correlation explicitly
by some sub-parameter or follow BIRD68 and just add this requirement as a
clarifying statement.  Al Davis favored adding just a clarifying statement
since it really is a necessary assumption.  Bob agreed, even though he knew of
some possible measurement extraction concerns.

As previously mentioned, Bob also was concerned with the specific language
"input stimulus is assumed to have initiated at the logic transition".  This
could be interpreted as the time of actually triggering the transition - an
undefined or hard to determine value.  A better statement might refer to a
common input stimulus reference time, such as the beginning of the input
stimulus waveform for each edge.  While there might be some slight error
because of input signal amplitude or ramp rate, this approach would still be
more consistent with actual waveform extraction based on simulation or
measurement.

AR - Bob Ross will work with Dave Lorang regarding the wording, leading
possibly for BIRD68.1

Bob stated that BIRD68.1 will be scheduled for a vote at the next
teleconference meeting.

BIRD69 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS
Greg Edlund briefly introduced BIRD69.  Greg stated that the IBIS Cookbook,
Section 3.2.2, introduced using V-T tables as Golden Waveforms for accuracy
comparison.  This concept was expanded by the IBIS East Accuracy group that
eventually produced the IBIS Accuracy Report.  BIRD69 provides the syntax to
set up the test circuits (as suggested by Jerry Hayes) and document a
corresponding set of "golden waveforms".  This is done under two new keywords:
[Rising Golden Waveform] and [Falling Golden Waveform].  EDA tools could
ignore these additional waveforms or could do accuracy testing by setting up
the test circuit simulation and comparing the simulation results with the
stored waveforms.

Since we were approaching the end of the meeting, Bob Ross planned more
discussion on BIRD69 at the next teleconference meeting.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross reported that Atul Agarawal delivered the ibischk3.2.6 source code
and it was distributed to the companies holding the parser license on January
2, 2001.  New executables for ibischk3 have been generated by Guy de Burgh
for various Unix operating systems and Matthew Flora for Windows.  Syed Huq
is expected to generate a Linux executable soon.  The executables are uploaded
at:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ibischk3/

The older Version 3.2.5 executables are also archived under this directory.

Bob noted that the new ibischk3 includes fixes for all bugs through BUG47.
The fixes still need to be checked.

- BUG49 - Warning Message for Unreferenced Models, Submodels
  Bob stated that we ran out of time before reaching this topic.  All that
  remained was to decide on how we wanted to resolve it.  We will plan the
  final resolution at the next teleconference meeting.

NEXT MEETING:
The next IBIS Meeting will be the IBIS Summit Meeting at DesignCon in
San Jose, CA on Monday, January 29, 2001 from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM.
There will not be any teleconference connection.

The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday at a date to be determined
from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.  BIRD65.2 and BIRD68.1 are scheduled for a vote.
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary)
            1800 W. Central Rd.
            Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293  

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================