Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes (6/1/01)

From: Guy de Burgh <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 10:52:56 -0700

DATE: 6/4/01

SUBJECT: 6/1/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks)             Roy Leventhal*
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer                 John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design                 [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek
                               Lynne Green*, Lance Wang*
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor        Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies            Rachild Chen
IBM                            Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
                               Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx)         Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, 
                               Matthew Flora
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang,
                               Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs
LSI Logic                      Larry Barnes
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
                               Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
                               Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
                               Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
                               Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi                     (Tam (Tom) Cao)
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola                       (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor          Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Signal Integrity Software      Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
                               Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
                               Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque*
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics               (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              John Berrie

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation              Silvia Montoya
Acuson                         Kim Helliwell
AMCC                           Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd                       David Wright
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
BMW                            Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks                Bob Haller
Compaq                         [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
                               Bill Ham
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EADS Airbus Industry           Claude Huet
  (Aerospatiale)
EFM                            Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
FCI                            Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks              Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors             Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute           Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
  Reliability and
  Integration
Fujitsu Ltd                    Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics            Jongho Kang
Infineon Technologies          Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation          Steven Chin
National Institute of Applied  Etienne Sicard
  Science (INSA)
Nokia                          Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
                               Janne Uusitalo
Nortel Networks                Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology                 Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group        Joseph Socha
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG      Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier, Katja Koller,
                               Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski, Gerald Bannert,
                               Burkhard Muller, Christian Marot,
                               Manfred Maurer, Amir Motamedi,
                               Hans Pichlmaier
Sintecs                        Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics             Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun                            Adrian Udenze
Xilinx                         Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Al Davis

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  Thursday June 21, 2001 IBIS Summit Meeting, No Phone Bridge
  July 20             (888) 316-5901   none             8744603      

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Lynne Green, who attended the May 11, 2001 IBIS Meeting, from Cadence replaces
Ian Dodd and is interested in IBIS-X, the IBIS Connector Specification and
other activities.

Moshiul Haque from Texas Instruments is an Application Engineer in charge of
an IBIS Modeling Team and is interested in bus hold, and future IBIS
activities.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that Huawei Technologies located in China is now an official
EIA IBIS Open Forum member and listed as a voting member.

Several voting members who have not paid and have not been responsive have
been moved to the Other Participants list or have been deleted.  We are still
contacting several others regarding payment issues.

Currently we are up to 29 paid members and are on or ahead of our budget.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The May 11, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.

The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross asked the officers for dates they might be out during the Summer.
Bob reported June 22 through July 17, Stephen Peters reported July 9 through
July 20, and Guy de Burgh reported July 13 through July 27.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq did more updates to the Roster link on the
IBIS home page and added a Poster entry.

Greg Edlund announced that a suggested checklist.txt has been added to the
Accuracy Link of the IBIS home page for checking IBIS models.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported some new model links can be found on the Models link page
that Roy Leventhal maintains under the IBIS home page:

Agilent Technologies models can be found through a search on IBIS and then
select Download IBIS Models.  Also there is a writeup on IBIS Modeling of
their Fiber Optic transceivers.

  http://www.semiconductor.agilent.com/

Search on IBIS for ServerWorks models:

  http://www.serverworks.com/

Also, Bob reported that Agere Systems (formerly Lucent Technologies) has an
Ambassador IBIS Model:

  http://www.lucent.com/micro/access/ambassador/ctidoc.cgi

A number of other links have changed.  Mitel Semiconductor is now Zarlink
Semiconductor.  You can currently find one model by searching under

  http://www.zarlink.com/index.html

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross - A Pending ibischk3 BUG

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS

- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia reported that the document is
  listed as being in the prepublication status.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
  (IMIC) - Bob Ross stated that the EIAJ has merged with another group, and
  he cannot find the link to the IMIC document.

- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
  (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross reported that
  Etienne Sicard will probably present the work at the September IBIS Summit
  meeting instead of the DAC IBIS Summit meeting.  Bob repeated from the
  last meeting that there is a subdirectory for EMC data on:

    http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/emc/

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - Bob Ross stated that a discussion on
  a possible joint meeting is planned later in the agenda.

- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
  National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report since
  Larry Barnes could not attend this meeting.

DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE 2001 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS
Bob Ross repeated for the minutes the general plans for the next IBIS Summit
Meeting.  The annual meeting is conducted along with the Design Automation
Conference (DAC), held this year in Las Vegas, Nevada.  The IBIS Summit
Meeting will be in the Hilton Hotel adjacent to the Las Vegas Convention
Center.  The meeting date is Thursday, June 21, 2001, the day following the
trade show portion of DAC.  This meeting is sponsored by the IBIS Open Forum
through the dues.  Guy de Burgh is coordinating the signups, presentations and
other local logistics.  EIA and Cecilia Fleming is handling the meeting site
and luncheon logistics.

Bob stated that about 19 people indicated they are attending.  Bob estimates
that we will have the normal turnout of 20 to 30 people.  Current company
travel restrictions are having some impact on attendance.

Guy de Burgh stated that he is having trouble reserving an LCD projector and
suggested asking everyone to bring foil overheads.  Bob stated that he prefers
foils for better interaction and meeting flow.  However, he asked Cecilia
Fleming to bring and LCD projector and she agreed.  (After the meeting Cecilia
indicated that all of her projectors are checked out.)

Bob Review the tentative program under development:

  Administrative Issues
    - Election of IBIS Officers for 2001 - 2002
  Connector Specification Discussion - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics
  IBIS-X Discussion - Stephen Peters (2 hours)
  IBIS-X Document - Stephen Peters, Intel Corporation
  IBIS Macro Language - Stephen Peters, Intel Corporation
  Applying IBIS Macro Language to New Keywords - Al Davis, Consultant
  IBIS Version 4.0 Issues - Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics
  Enhanced Buffer Extraction - Hazem Hegazy, Mentor Graphics
  Driver Schedule Modeling - Chris Reid, Mentor Graphics
  Behavioral Frequency Domain Modeling - Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corp.
  SCSI and Fiber Channel Overview, Larry Barnes, LSI Logic

Guy de Burgh stated that at the end of the meeting that he might have some
material on IBIS Modeling for EMC

Bob noted that the IBIS Verison 4.0 and Connector Modeling discussion might
be brief for this meeting.

Bob discussed that for the Election of IBIS Officers, the existing officers
(at the end of these Minutes) are all nominated and available for their
current positions, except that Stephen Peters, and Bob are planning to switch
roles. Stephen is a candidate for Chair and Bob a candidate for Vice-Chair.
Other nominations can be sent to Guy de Burgh, and also will be accepted at
the meeting.

Greg Edlund asked if absentee votes can be cast.  Bob responded that we will
accept absentee votes.  They can be sent to Guy.

Bob asked Guy to send out another notice.  We have enough topics on the
program to fill most of the day, so we do not need to ask for any more.  In
fact one or two might be proposed at the last minute.  Bob will work with Guy
to put in the tentative agenda topics in the next announcement.

Bob will also issue the actual Agenda one week before the meeting.  The
meeting is still planned to start at 8:30 AM.  People can arrive earlier for
refreshments before the meeting.

FUTURE IBIS MEETINGS
Bob Ross introduced that EIA is planning a multiple organization meeting
week next year from September 9 - 13, 2002 in Vancouver, Canada.  The IBIS
Open Forum is invited to also plan a Summit Meeting there.  The organizations
include various JEDEC JC4X.Y groups for memories, JC-16 for Modeling and
Testing, the Compact Modeling Council for Spice device model standardization,
and others.  Cecilia Fleming added that a component group will also join.
So the purpose of the joint, co-located meeting is to allow individuals from
one organization to attend meetings of another organization that may be of
related interest.

Bob noted that we normally plan the meeting on the East Coast associated with
the PCB Conference East in September.  So we would have to decide which one
to hold.  Lynne Green commented that maybe both meetings could be held, and
the West Coast joint meeting would appeal to those who normally would not
travel to the East Coast meeting.

Bob commented that some groups require non-members to be invited.  However,
Cecilia stated that according to EIA rules, it is permissible for non-members
to attend two successive meetings as an observer.

Bob concluded that this choice will need to be considered some time next year.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo reported that he received two models.  One is ready to be sent
out.

John asked for more participation as a reviewer, and Lynne Green volunteered.
Bob Ross discussed some of the activities and indicated that the reviewers
consist of EDA vendors representatives who have access to IBIS Model
processing tools.  They can actually check the operation of the IBIS Model
and report back privately their comments to the semiconductor vendor model
provider.

Roy Leventhal suggested that Model Review committee also ask if any
semiconductor vendor has links to IBIS models on their Web sites.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Bob Ross mentioned that meetings were held on May 15, 2001 and May 29, 2001.
The Working Group now consists has several members from the IBIS Futures Work
Group.  Meetings will be held every week until the week before the IBIS
Summit Meeting.  the next meeting will be to continue to review the keywords
in Chapter 8.  Most of the technical content exists in this section and will
also be reviewed.

The latest document (Version 0.966) uploaded under the Connector link of the
IBIS home page.

Bob stated that he originally planned to do the review at the IBIS meetings.
The technical concerns are probably too difficult to discuss with the 
whole group at this time.

Stephen Peters added that the scope of the meeting are to bring the Connector
Specification and the IBIS-X documents into editorial and format alignment.
Bob added that two different Working Groups had adopted some different
conventions for similar functions, and the differences now need to be
resolved.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters reported that weekly meetings were held on May 15, 2001, 
May 22, 2001 and May 29, 2001.  The meetings follow the Connector Working
Group Meetings.  The next meetings for both groups are scheduled on June 5,
2001 and June 12, 2001.  

The top level IBIS-X document Version 0.5 document has been uploaded in the
Futures Group link of the IBIS Home page for public review.  The Working
Group is now writing the outline to produce the IBIS Macro Language document.
The past meetings have focused on data structure issues.

The above material will be introduced at the IBIS Summit Meeting.

Bob Ross thanked Stephen for taking a leading role in both the Connector
Specification and IBIS Futures Working Group and in authoring the Working
Group documents.

BIRD70.3 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS
Greg Edlund stated that the only remaining issue on BIRD70.3 is how the
[Test Data] subparameter Test_data_type and [Test Load] subparameter
Test_data_type interact.  Both subparameters can have "Single-ended" or
"Differential" as arguments.  The allowable combinations and related
restrictions need to be documented.

Bob Ross added that another issue is how to deal with the possibility of 
unsymmetrical differential drivers.  Some more subparameters may need to be
added.  For example, the Driver_model subparameter may also need an optional
Driver_model_inv subparameter to document a different inverting driver.

These topics were discussed.  Lynne Green asked if timing offset can be
included in differential golden waveforms.  Milt Schwartz commented that most
differential applications (such as for LVDS) want the offset time minimized.
There are even specifications for common mode variation at a mid point of
a differential terminator (AC Coupled to ground).  Greg Edlund stated that
the intent of the Golden Waveforms was to cross-correlate normal performance
with golden performance.  Bob concluded that we do not need to add the
capability of dealing with differential, skewed Golden Waveforms.

During the discussion, Stephen Peters asked what is needed to bring closure.
Bob commented that these issues need to be raised and discussed on the IBIS
reflector.  Greg could issue BIRD70.4, etc. to capture any resolution.  One
proposal was to allow only both "Differential" or both "Single-ended" choices.
However, other combinations and their restrictions still need to be resolved.

Greg stated that he will raise the issue on the IBIS reflector and issue
BIRD70.4 as we reach agreement.

BIRD71 - TIMING TEST LOADS IN [Model Spec] TO SUPPORT PCI & PCI-X
Stephen Peters commented that BIRD71 has not been changed since it was
introduced at the last meeting. 

Stephen commented that Arpad Muranyi asked on the IBIS reflector if a more
general set of timing test loads were needed.  Stephen responded that his
intent was to complete the timing specification choices under [Model Spec]
to their logical conclusion.  In doing so, he checked the PCI specifications
to see that all cases were covered.  

Bob Ross stated that the additions were to document min and max Cref and
Rref values and to document all cases where the Cref, Rref, Vref, and Vmeas
values can be different for the rising and falling edges.

Bob commented that BIRD71 seemed to do this well.  His only concern was how
the EDA tools were to work with this data.  There are two points of view.
One is to used the timing subparameters along with the corner conditions
to document a worse case load for one of the timing corners.  Such corners
are documented in some specifications.  The second point of view is to use
the timing load as a calibration factor for data sheet Tco delays.  The IBIS
model (for example, a model with [Ramp] based time response) does not capture
any Tco delay.

Stephen agreed to look at this and perhaps provide some clarification
statements in an updated BIRD71.1.  Bob stated that he expects BIRD71 to be
voted on soon.

OTHER PENDING BIRDS
Stephen Peters asked what is needed to close out IBIS Version 4.0.  Bob Ross
stated that completion of BIRD70.3 and BIRD71 are needed.

Bob is also considering a fallback submodel additions to capture an effect
that the Bus_hold submodel cannot handle for some dynamic output impedance
control type operations (where the impedance increases during a transition).

Bob believes that the existing [Driver Schedule] keyword will be satisfactory
for handling the SCSI second bit strength reduction simulation.  So no further
work is needed for this.

We are still want to consider the simple additions for SSO improvement that
Dr. Unger originally proposed a while ago.  However, there might be issues
with this, or it might be limited to certain topologies.

In all cases, BIRDs are needed.  Bob stated that he did not have time to 
follow through on these because of other activities.  However, we should
expect that all of the related BIRDs will be resolved by around September.
We may decide not to include some of the extra features.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING

- BUG56 Parser Fails to Detect Always Flowing Current
  Bob Ross stated that the decision to Fix BUG56 was made at the May 11, 2001
  meeting.  The [Pullup], [Pulldown], [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp] tables
  would all be checked to see that they cross or reach 0 Volts.  

  Bob needed to know what tolerance to set is there is noise and 0 Volts is
  not reached exactly.  There are several technologies such as ECL where this
  could occur.  Bob stated that he and Matthew Flora and discussed this
  off-line and Matthew had suggested 1 uV.

  The group agreed that 1 uV should be the limit.  Bob will add this
  information to BIRD56.

- A Pending ibischk3 BUG (New agenda item)
  Bob Ross stated that normally there is a problem related to the recent
  BUG53 and BUG34 fixes that introduced both Error and Warning messages based
  on the degree of waveform mismatch.  A greater than 10 percent difference
  produces an error.

  One problem is that the mismatch check itself may not work properly if there
  are legal non-monotonic points in the output table in, for example the
  clamping region.  The ibischk3 testing algorithm appears to start searching
  for converge at the end rather than at the middle.  The consequence is that
  a legal IBIS model with no mismatch may be rejected by an Error message.

  This issue is whether to fix the algorithm, or to change the Error back to
  a Warning.

  A second problem is in some cases some percentages for Warning messages are
  wrong. 

  Normally Bob would actually issue the BUG report before discussing a BUG,
  but he wanted to alert the committee of a pending BUG and its choices.

END OF MEETING TOPIC
Pravin Patel asked about some work Guy de Burgh might have presented regarding
EMC modeling in IBIS.  Guy responded that he has some ideas on parameters that
are needed and might discuss this at the IBIS Summit Meeting in June, 2001.
(Note, this is added to the possible list of topics on the Agenda.)

NEXT MEETING:
The next  meeting will be the DAC2001 IBIS Summit Meeting in Las Vegas,
Nevada, scheduled all day on June 21, 2001.  No teleconference connection is
planned.

The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, July 20, 2001, from 8:00 AM
to 10:00 AM.
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary)
            1800 W. Central Rd.
            Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Innoveda
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================