Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:56:25 -0800

Date: 3/5/01

SUBJECT: 3/02/01 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks)             Roy Leventhal*
Agilent                        (Mark Chang)
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         (Chen Hongyu)
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
Cadence Design                 Ian Dodd*
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Compaq                         Peter LaFlamme, Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor        Adam Tambone*
IBM                            Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund*, Wes Martin,
                               Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx)         Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Dave Lorang,
                               Michael Mirmak*, Qinglun Chen, Will Hobbs
LSI Logic                      Larry Barnes*
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
                               Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
                               Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad
                               Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan*
Mitsubishi                     (Tam (Tom) Cao)
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz
Nortel Networks                Calvin Trowell
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor          Zack Ciccone
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Robinson-Nugent, Inc.          (Alexander Barr)
Siemens AG                     Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier
Signal Integrity Software      Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
                               Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics               (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              (Werner Rissiek)

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation              Silvia Montoya
Acuson                         Kim Helliwell
AMCC                           Jeff Smith
Apple Computer                 John Figueroa
ASIS Ltd                       David Wright
Cereva Networks                Bob Haller*
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
FCI                            Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks              Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors             Danny Morlion
Fujitsu Ltd                    Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Huawei Technologies            Rachild Chen
Hyundai Electronics            Jongho Kang
Intrinsix Corporation          Steven Chin
Nokia                          Tapani von Ravner
Oak Technology                 Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group        Joseph Socha
STMicroelectronics             Peter Hirt
Xilinx                         Susan Wu
Independent, Consultant        Al Davis

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  March 16, 2001      European IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge
  March 30, 2001       (916) 356-9200   2-524673         6244264
  April 20, 2001       (916) 356-9200   2-524674         3881934

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Bob Haller from Cereva Networks (a 250 person "start-up" company) joined.  Bob
had been active in the past years with another company.  He is now involved as
actively uses IBIS models and is interested in accuracy issues.  Bob also
expressed interest in getting his company to become an official member of the
EIA IBIS Open Forum.

Adam Trambone of Fairchild Semiconductor had attended the Designcon 2001 IBIS
Summit Meeting.  He is responsible for producing IBIS models for several
technologies.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that Signal Integrity Software (SISoft) is now an official
EIA IBIS Open Forum member (and now listed in the Voting Members Participants
List).

Bob stated, as previously reported, that we have about 22 payments out of 36
invoices so far.  Bob said that he is working with Cecilia Fleming on the
final year 2000 results.  He expects credit for some additional revenue that
was not given in the preliminary report at the February 16, 2001 meeting.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The February 16, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.

The AR's will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that Syed Huq made roster updates and added a new logo in
the Poster link.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
None.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
During the Meeting, Bob Ross - Version 4.0 Release Plans

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 3.2) - Cecilia Fleming added more clarification
to the previous report that if the FDIS (Final Draft International Standard)
vote is successful, IBIS Version 3.2 can be published as an official
international standard sometime after April 13, 2001.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
(IMIC) - No report.

- IEC PWI 93-1 Models of Integrated Circuits for EMI Behavioral Simulation
(formerly designated as IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Bob Ross
mentioned that there are three presentations planned at the European IBIS
Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany on March 16, 2001.  This will be discussed
later.  Also, there are two other related presentations on EMI and ground
bounce issues.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.

- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - Larry Barnes reported
on the meeting held February 20-22, 2001.  Work is progressing on the SCSI
Signal Modeling (SSM) Technical Report.  The Committee is interested in
proposing a "fallback driver" function in IBIS similar to [Driver Schedule]
that reduces the strength of the buffer if a second consecutive bit is
specified.  This functionality is needed soon since the final specification
of the SCSI device will be ready in several months.  Larry also mentioned
that 3-level logic will become standardized in several years, but is not
pushing for this functionality in the current IBIS Standard.  Bob Ross stated
that this would be implemented better in IBIS-X.

Larry commented that the SSM report took much information from the IBIS
Cookbook and adapted it to the SCSI standard.  Bob also mentioned that had a
few editorial comments related to some nomenclature conventions we adopted
after the cookbook was issued.  The document can be retrieved from the
SCSI Signal Modeling Technical Report (SCM) link under:

  http://www.t10.org/ssm.htm

or directly at:

  ftp://ftp.t10.org/drafts/ssm/ssm-r02.pdf

Larry recommended to his Committee members to become involved with the IBIS
Open Forum.

DATE 2001 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross introduced the topic by giving the basic information so far on the
European IBIS Summit meeting to be held Friday, March 16, 2000 in Munich,
Germany along with the Design Automation and Testing in Europe (DATE 2001)
conference and exhibit.  The IBIS Summit Meeting is on the day after the trade
show portion of the show.  Bob stated that four companies are co-sponsors of
the meeting: Cadence, Innoveda, Mentor Graphics, and Zuken (Incases).  This
pays for the meeting room, refreshments and free lunch to participants.

Bob stated that a third Announcement was recently sent on February 27, 2001,
with about eleven presentations.  The program now completely filled with
about fourteen presentations, and the meeting will last all day.

So far, Bob estimates about 25 people have signed up, which translates into
about 40 attendees so far.  The next announcement will contain a revised
Agenda and will ask for signup responses to better anticipate the number of
reservations for lunch that is provided.

Bob then went over the additions to the program from the last announcement.
A draft Agenda is listed below.

                         EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
                         Astron Hotel, Munich Germany
                              MARCH 16, 2001

8:30    REFRESHMENTS

9:00    INTRODUCTIONS AND PROGRAM
        Bob Ross, Mentor Graphics, USA

9:30    Experiences with and Tips for IBIS Models
        Eckhard Lenski, Siemens AG, Germany

10:00   Extraction of Key IBIS Parameters for Easier Model Selection
        John Berrie, Zuken, England

10:30   BREAK

10:45   DOGEN, A Siemens Internal Model Tool, Extension 1999 - 2001
        Hans Pichlmaier, Siemens AG, Germany

11:15   LVDS Modeling
        Hazem Hegazy and Mohammed Korany, Mentor Graphics, Egypt

12:00   LUNCH

13:00   STTL-2 Modeling Experiences
        Bernhard Unger, Siemens AG, Germany

13:30   CAN (Controller Area Network) Bus Modeling
        Manfred Maurer, Siemens AG, Germany

14:00   EMC Standardization Progress (title to be determined)
        Jean-Claude Perrin, Texas Instruments, France

14:15   EMC Models (title to be determined)
        Christian Marot, Siemens, France

14:30   Parasitic IC Emission Modeling
        Etienne Sicard, National Institute of Applied Science, Toulouse, France

15:00   BREAK

15:15   Ground-Noise Model
        Mariusz Faferko, Fraunhofer Institute Reliability and Microintegration,
        Germany

15:45   Radiated Emission Model for IC
        Peter Kralicek, Fraunhofer Institute Reliability and Microintegration,
        Germany

16:15   Points of View for High Frequency IBIS Models
        Gerald Bannert, Siemens AG, Germany

16:30   IBIS-X
        Arpad Muranyi, Intel, USA

16:55   Concluding Items

17:00   END

Arpad Muranyi stated that he plans to attend and can work with the final
twenty five minutes with information based on some previous presentations.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
John Angulo stated (later in the meeting) that he has received no new models
since the report on the February 16, 2001 meeting.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
Bob Ross summarized a meeting between he and Gus Panella held on February 27,
2001.  The main changes were to add the [Begin Header] and [End Header] syntax
as done in the IBIS-X document.  Bob also indicated that there will be a pass
to improve the document appearance including removing the left-hand bars.

Ian Dodd had sent out a revised code proposal to the committee to bring its
syntax closer to the IBIS-X macro language proposed syntax.  Bob stated that
this revised code would be included.

The basic plan is to finish doing these changes and then issue a new document
for the IBIS Open Forum to review.  It would be in several formats including
.txt, .doc, and .pdf.  The plan is to schedule some time (15 to 30 minutes)
of each teleconference meeting to review specified portions of the document.

People can still comment on the document as a whole and we can continue to
work in the other areas.  Hopefully this review completion can be completed
in the targeted June 2001 time frame.

IBIS FUTURES (IBIS-X, API, BIRDxx)
Stephen Peters reported on the progress to date and on the February 20, 2001
meeting.  The next meeting will be on the two week schedule on March 6, 2001.

Stephen is working on another update of the specification document the
Working Group is developing.  The target is to get this document and the
IBIS-X macro language documented by the June 2001 time frame.

One item that needs more work is the pin to pad packaging portion.  There
might also be interest in applying the Swathing methods in the Connector
document.  Also, Bob Ross mentioned that a number of older proposals could be
reviewed.

Bob also mentioned that at the next Working Group meeting, Arpad's IBIS-X
presentation for the European IBIS Summit might be discussed.

IBISCHK3 BUG TRACKING
Bob Ross moved this agenda item ahead until Greg Edlund returned to the call.
Bob reported that Matthew Flora is working on the fix to BUG53 and BUG34.
Matthew will coordinate with Atul Agarwal and send the revised source code to
him.  BUG34 was authored by Matthew, and Bob felt that Matthew knew the issues
and possible areas of code that needed fixing.  Bob wants to get an ibischk3
Version 3.2.7 distributed quickly, even if that is the only fix.

- BUG54 - Corners with NA give Bad Test Load Warnings
  Bob Ross introduced BUG54, authored by Michael Mirmak.  It reports a Warning
  message for the timing test load Vmeas crossing for min and max column cases
  even when the min and max columns contain NA entries.

  Bob classified BUG54 as Annoying, Low, and Open.

  However, Bob expressed some concerns regarding BUG54.  While most of the min
  and max columns contained NA entries, three keywords ([Ramp], [Voltage
  Range], and [Temperature Range]) did contain min and max column numerical
  entries.  The problem may still exist if these entries were NA, but the
  example needs to be produced to test this.  Also, since most EDA tools
  should use default typical entries if NAs exist, the problem may still
  exist.  Bob thought that with such defaults, the model should work fine and
  should not produce Warning messages.  More investigation is needed in this
  area.

  Bob thought the actual set of tests and Warnings might become complicated
  and require effort to sort out combinations when only some keywords contain
  NA entries.  Bob was concerned about the effort involved versus the benefit
  obtained.

  Michael commented later in the meeting that he would issue a new version of
  BUG54 with a better example or examples.

  Bob planned more discussion at the next teleconference meeting to decide on
  whether or not to fix BUG54 and how to fix it.

BIRD69.1 - GOLDEN WAVEFORMS
Greg Edlund introduced BIRD69.1 by noting that it was issued in response to
comments of the February 16, 2001 meeting.  Briefly, the intent of BIRD69.1
is to provide golden waveforms within the IBIS model along with the test
configuration used to obtain these waveforms.  The user would have the golden
waveform information and could test the IBIS model using the specified test
configuration to validate the performance of the model.  The EDA tool could
also perform such a test.  However, since this information is contained in
new keywords, the EDA tool could also ignore these keywords.

Greg noted the changes made in BIRD69.1.  They are documented in BIRD69.1 and
include the following:

  Change Node to Test_point
  Remove Driver_model_name since it was redundant
  Add R_diff for differential models
  Change some terminology so that parallel terminators V_term1 and V_term2 can
    be attached to different voltages
  Add Pkg_pin to describe what package is to be used for the model

Bob Ross called for discussion.  Stephen Peters commented that it still called
for a big network with fixed topology.  The IBIS-X approach would support a
more general tester functionality.

Roy Leventhal commented that he favors BIRD69.1 since it could be specified
for IBIS Version 4.0 earlier than the anticipated IBIS-X.

Bob Haller is concerned about the accuracy of models.  He emphasized that the
the EDA tool could use or ignore the information.  But the golden waveform
provides important information about the accuracy of the model.

Stephen stated that while there may be merit, it might not be of as high a
priority as some other items.  We set a new agenda item to talk about the
possible new items needed for Version 4.0.

Greg stated that this should be a low impact BIRD.  However, it would increase
the size of the IBIS Standard, and create more work for updating ibischk3.

Yong Phan stated that one customer required golden data.  In the short term
this need was satisfied by suppling a Spice model as reference.

Bob provided some technical comments about BIRD69.1 and about some related
implications:

  One implication concerning the R_diff entry that both the Non-Inverting and
    Inverting drivers would have to be from the same model.  This is not an
    IBIS requirement.  The models could be different.  However, Bob did not
    know whether this restriction would be a problem.

  Bob was unsure that the Tref entry to state a time reference was needed or
    the best way to handle this.  EDA tools might do their own alignment of
    data.  The actual alignment might be shifted by leading edge removal that
    is implied by BIRD68.

  The Pkg_pin addition was a good idea.  Some of the golden data might be from
    measurements, and we need to know what pin is used.  However, the approach
    in IBIS is still ambiguous.  Some semiconductor vendors supply several
    components with a file that may reference the same model.  One reason for
    doing this is to cover package variations that are shipped.  These
    variations may even have different pin outs.

    Bob also stated another implication of this subparameter.  It is not clear
    clear what to do if Pkg_pin referred to a pin that was modeled using a
    coupled package model.  Greg stated that he did assume a single pin model
    configuration.  Bob noted that the original [Rising Waveform] and [Falling
    Waveform] keywords got around the pin ambiguity problem by adding R_dut,
    L_dut, and C_dut subparameters.  A similar approach could be used for the
    golden waveform keywords.

  Another implication of having [Golden Rising Waveform] and [Golden Falling
    Waveform] is that the golden responses would be for only one edge.  Bob
    thinks this is all right.  However, some semiconductor vendors might want
    to provide full cycle references.  Also there might be some implications
    if the IBIS model was actually derived from edges after several cycles.

  Finally, Bob stated that all of the subparameters should be optional.  A
    large list is currently required, as BIRD69.1 is now structured.  The
    defaults could be stated based on unspecified shunt elements being open
    and series elements being shorted.  Also, this resolves an inconsistency
    regarding requiring "none" if no Receiver model or Pkg_pin were needed.
    They should be included only if listed.

Bob felt that not all of the comments needed to be addressed by changes, but
some of the limitations should noted.  Bob asked Greg to consider the comments
and propose a response as BIRD69.2 for further discussion at the next
teleconference meeting.

VERSION 4.0 RELEASE PLANS - New Topic
Bob Ross opened the topic by noting that the six approved BIRDs could go
into IBIS Version 4.0 or could be implemented in IBIS-X as a Version 4.0
emulation mode.  Stephen Peters felt that IBIS Version 4.0 was needed along
with IBIS-X.  Arpad Muranyi commented that it is needed, and is about a year
late from when it was originally expected.

Larry Barnes stated that the fallback driver functionality is needed soon
since SCSI applications will have this feature in months.  Bob stated he would
work off line with Larry to propose a BIRD.  Bob noted that some other related
features that are needed could be included.  He favored using the Submodel
approach rather than a method patterned after [Driver Schedule].

Stephen noted that some PCI functionality concerning more timing thresholds
has been discussed on e-mail reflectors and is needed.  He plans to work on
this.  Greg Edlund commented that he and Syed Huq have also been concerned
about PCI specification needs and might join in helping define and review this
functionality.

Bob stated that he might want to include some possible improvements for SSO
(simultaneous switching output) modeling as proposed last year by Bernhard
Unger.

Bob stated that IBIS Version 4.0 is still intended to be a "minor" upgrade to
capture some of the recent needs for completeness.  However, some EDA tools
might actually use IBIS-X methods to implement the new features.

Bob also stated that in targeting a Version 4.0 release in the near futures,
all of the possible improvements need to be proposed soon.  He expects that a
few more BIRDs may also be proposed as part of the process to reach closure.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be the European IBIS Summit Meeting in Munich, Germany
on Friday, March 16, 2001.  No teleconference connection is planned.

The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, March 30, 2001, from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.

==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-209
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com subsidiary)
            1800 W. Central Rd.
            Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Innoveda
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================