Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

From: [email-masked] (Guy de Burgh)
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 09:20:51 -0800

==================================================
DATE: 11/19/01

SUBJECT: November 16, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks)             Roy Leventhal*
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer                 John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology  [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui,
                               Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design                 [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek,
                               Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Cypress Semiconductor          (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor        Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies            Rachild Chen
IBM                            Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Wes Martin,
                               Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel*
Innoveda (& HyperLynx)         Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, 
                               Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*,
                               Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen,
                               Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang
LSI Logic                      Larry Barnes
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
                               Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
                               Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
                               Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
                               Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet,
                               Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd*
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff, Yong Phan, Tim Wells, Bob Cox*
Mitsubishi                     Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola                       (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz
NEC Corporation                (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor          Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG      Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier,
                               Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski,
                               Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller,
                               Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer,
                               Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier
Signal Integrity Software      Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
Sigrity                        Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
                               Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
                               Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics               (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              John Berrie, Ralf Bruening

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation              Silvia Montoya
Acuson                         Kim Helliwell
AMCC                           Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd                       David Wright
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
BMW                            Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks                Bob Haller
Compaq                         [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
                               Bill Ham
EADS Airbus Industry           Claude Huet
  (Aerospatiale)
EFM                            Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Ericsson Radio Systems         Anders Ekholm
FCI                            Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks              Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors             Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute           Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
  Reliability and
  Integration
Fujitsu Ltd                    Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics            Jongho Kang
Idaho State University         Al Davis
Infineon Technologies          Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation          Steven Chin
KAW/USA                        Shinichi Maeda
National Institute of Applied  Etienne Sicard
  Science (INSA)
Nokia                          Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
                               Janne Uusitalo
North Carolina State U.        Paul Franzon
Nortel Networks                Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology                 Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group        Joseph Socha
Sintecs                        Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics             Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun                            Adrian Udenze
Toshiba Corp.                  Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  December 7, 2001    1-877-299-1938   None             6467862
                      1-617-801-9666   (International Dial-In)

  January 11, 2002    1-916-356-2663   2                8295945
                      (International Dial-in the same)

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after.  When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new members.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that our membership is unchanged from the
34 members reported last month.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The October 26, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved with this change:  Micron
Technologies was corrected to Micron Technology in the Introduction.

The ARs were discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Compaq's roster page listing will be updated
with new contact information.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal reported that the IBIS Models page has been updated as of
November 11, 2001.  Roy asked if commercial IBIS model creation  companies
could be added to the roster.  Bob Ross replied that we do not list 
commercial model making services, however EDA companies can mention their
model creation services in the tag line of their companies listings.

Bob Ross reported these new, changed or reorganized links:

  Actel Semiconductor:
  http://www.actel.com/custsup/models/ibis.html

  Aeroflex UTMC (search IBIS for download links):
  http://www.utmc.com/

  Fairchild Semiconductor:
  Analog and Mixed Signal IBIS Models:
  http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/IBIS/Analog_and_Mixed_Signal/index.html
  Interface and Logic IBIS Models:
  http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/IBIS/Interface_and_Logic/index.html
  Interface Models:
  http://www.fairchildsemi.com/products/interface/models.html

  Hitachi, I-Cube and International Microelectronics (sold to Cypress) model
  links are gone.  

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
  (IMIC) -  Stephen Peters reported that representatives from JEITA are
  planning on attending the IBIS summit in January.  They wish to learn 
  more about IBIS future activity, especially IBIS-X activity.  JEITA 
  representatives are also planning on making presentation at the summit
  on EDA activities in Japan.

- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
  (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters 
  reported that the latest documents have been released and exist under
  these links for IEC processing (the links split into several lines to
  prevent mailer truncation):

    http://www.ute-fr.com/domino2/SiteWeb.nsf/
      8a5473dcadaa1e984125690500321bfc/
      fa7c022ff4ce65b4c1256ad1004bf436?OpenDocument

    http://www.ute-fr.com/domino2/SiteWeb.nsf/
      8a5473dcadaa1e984125690500321bfc/
      cdfd39bc801a98dbc1256ad1005599b3?OpenDocument

  The information was passed on to the IBIS reflector for any comments.
  Stephen and Bob Ross expect to provide feedback on these documents.

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.

- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
  National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report.

S2IBIS3 MEETING REPORT
Stephen Peters reported on a meeting with Drs. Paul Franzon and Michael
Steer from North Carolina State University (NCSU) on November 2, 2001 at
Intel. Bob Ross, Tom Dagostino, Stephen Peters and Lynne Green attended.
This meeting was in response to a request for a follow up to the 
presentation given by Paul at the September IBIS Users Group Meeting.  Paul
presented more detail on their S2IBIS3 development and how it fits into
their NEOCAD simulation environment development.

FUTURE SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS
- DesignCon2002
  Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled
  on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara,
  California.  Plans are set and initial notices about the meeting will be 
  issued in early December 2001.  Stephen reminded those that are planning
  on attending to make your travel reservations as soon as possible.
  Stephen also did a quick count of the officers who will attending.  

  Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda is still planning to provide the IBIS
  booth.  Bob Ross stated that Milt Schwartz is handling the arrangements
  and National Semiconductor is sponsoring the lunch.

- Date2002
  Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit
  Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France.
  Guy de Burgh reported that Innoveda has agreed to join Mentor Graphics and
  Zuken in co-sponsoring the event.  More co-sponsors are requested.  As 
  before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on EMC/EMI issues.

- JEDEC 2002
  Stephen Peters asked the group if there was any more ideas regarding 
  attending  the September 2002 JEDEC meeting in Vancouver BC.  The JEDEC
  meeting days overlap with the IBIS Users Group meeting and IBIS Summit in
  September 2002. Bob Ross noted that, based on past history, arranging and
  hosting a summit costs a minimum of $1,300, so this needs to be taken into
  consideration if both meetings are to be turned into official IBIS
  Summits.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross reported that a Series MOSFET component from Texas Instruments has
been distributed for review.

MAJORDOMO UPDATE
John Angulo reported that text messages are now being archived in the 
email.digest archive.  Stephen thanked John and Steve Grout who 
provides computer support for EIA for their work.  Bob Ross went on to
state that the e-mail archive directory structure allows the email 
archive to be separated into half yearly archives.  Bob then asked for
guidance on adding a tag on the subject line of IBIS reflector traffic, 
much like is done for the si-list reflector.  Stephen Peters also 
suggested automatically appending unsubscribe information at the bottom.
After discussion John and Bob agreed to work on these projects.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on October 30, November 6,
and 13, 2001.  The next one is scheduled on November 20, 2001.  The 
connector committee has finished a technical review of the specification.
A few more technical changes have been made in order to simplify and 
clarify the specification, including dropping an automatic pin map
generation function.  An editorial review still remains to be done.
Stephen also mentioned that Gus Panella of the connector committee is
arranging meetings with connector users in order to obtain feedback.
We are still on track to have the specification ready for Open Forum
review in the first quarter of 2002.

IBIS FUTURES REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that meetings were held on November 1 and 15,
2001.  The next meeting is scheduled for November 29.  More work has been
done on the macro language specification, and we have resolved many issues
with the primitive elements.  Stephen will work offline with Lynne Green to 
get chapter 6 drafted and into the IBIS-ML specification.  Stephen indicated
that the committee will focus next on describing IBIS 3.2 and the proposed
IBIS 4.0 birds in the macro language. 

BIRD73.3 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL
Bob Ross issued BIRD73.3 with some revisions as suggested at the October 26,
2001 IBIS Meeting.  These consisted of clarifying what "low" and "high"
means in the Bus Hold and Fall Back sections and to editorially revise the
Bus Hold paragraph concerning the ambiguous situation when the tests for
initial bus hold submodel settings are either not met or both met.

In further reviewing BIRD73.3, Bob discovered another minor editorial error
and the fact that the Fall Back DRIVER FALLING CYCLE table had a functional
error caused indirectly by editorial cutting and pasting.  The error needs
to be corrected.

Bob plans to issue BIRD73.4 with the corrections.  He also suggested that
BIRD73.4 be put on the agenda to be voted on at the next meeting.  This
forces the issue of closing it out.  However, Bob stated that BIRD73.4 is
complicated, and it would be a reasonable resolution to defer the vote if
there still existed any technical concerns or questions.  Stephen Peters
agreed that this was a reasonable way to proceed.

AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD73.4 with the discussed corrections two weeks prior
to the next meeting for a formal vote.

IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that ibischk3.2.8 is ready for distribution to the
organizations holding the source code license.  The distribution would have
already been done before the meeting, but we had some e-mail problems.

Bob has not seen the final version, so he cannot yet comment on whether the
code included fixes for BUG55 and BUG59, as previously discussed.  Guy de
Burgh plans to generate Unix executables on several platforms, and Lynne
Green will generate Linux executables.

Bob also asked that if any finds problems with ibischk3.2.8, let him know.
If there are any serious issues, we can "recall" the source code
distribution and not upload any executables.

- BUG62 - Not All Non-Monotonic Points Reported
  Bob Ross re-introduced BUG62, reported by Tracy Sopchak and issued through
  Lynne Green.  This bus was discussed at the last teleconference, but we
  ran out of time before deciding on the desired disposition. In brief,
  there is a debate regarding the desirability of reporting multiple
  non-monotonic points in a non-monotonic waveform.  Bob is in favor of
  only reporting the first non-monotonic point, thus forcing the user to
  examine the waveform.  Lynne Green suggested that instead of multiple
  warning messages the parser could issue one warning message then list the
  number of non-monotonic points.  Bob argued that BUG62 was really minor
  and probably not worth fixing.  The issue is that each BUG fix does costs
  time and money, and may risk breaking something.  This is a case that the
  user has been warned and should look at the whole table further.  After
  further discussion, the group agreed to accept the resolution
  of "WILL NOT FIX" to close out BUG62.

  BUG62 classification is changed to ANNOYING, LOW and WILL NOT FIX.

- BUG63 - Some BUG47 Reported Waveform Percentages Wrong
  Bob Ross introduced BUG63.  The BUG47 improvement, which gives a more
  descriptive report for various cases of V-T table waveform mismatch, does
  have a few cases where the reported percentages are wrong and could be
  very misleading.  The actual "Error" vs "Warning" distinction remains
  correct, but incorrectly calculated percentages such as 176.8% for a
  real 2.3% mismatch can cause some wasteful searching to try to resolve
  this.  So while this is an annoyance, it is a problem that needs to be
  fixed.

  BUG63 was classified as ANNOYING, MEDIUM, and OPEN and with the
  action item that it will be fixed in the next release of ibischk3.

XML FOR IBIS
Bob Ross reported that he has not yet received some sanitized IBIS to XML
formatted models from Atul Agarwal, therefore he has not yet uploaded any
related material.

NEW TECHNICAL ISSUES
Stephen Peters noted that in a recent ibis-users reflector discussion
(Subject: "Input model with Pullup-/Pulldown-Reference"), an issue was
raised with input models.  In brief, the IBIS specification states 
that if the [voltage Range] keyword is not used, then all four of the
other voltage reference keywords (Pullup, Pulldown, Power Clamp and GND
Clamp) must be present.  However, input models do not contain pullup or
pulldown structures, so the [Pullup Reference] and [Pulldown Reference]
keywords are not applicable.  Arpad Muranyi mentioned a particular ECL input
modeling case where the [Power Clamp] and [GND Clamp] keywords may have to
be used.  However, Stephen pointed out that the specification allows 
[Voltage Range] to be used with [GND Clamp], so the specification is not
forcing the user into including the pullup and pulldown reference keywords
when they are not needed. Bob Ross then pointed out that an input model 
with a bus-hold submodel may need to use [Pullup Reference] or 
[Pulldown Reference] so that disallowing these keywords in an input model
cannot be prohibited. After further discussion the group agreed that the
specification did not need to be changed or clarified. 

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, December 7, 2001 from
8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time.  Bird 73.4 is scheduled for a vote.

============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF4-215
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com
            subsidiary)
            1800 W. Central Rd.
            Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Innoveda
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
      subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>

      In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
      subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>

      Help and other commands:
      help

  [email-masked]
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      or both.  State your request.

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  [email-masked]
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  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
      bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.