Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

From: Guy de Burgh <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 08:50:13 -0800

DATE: 12/11/01

SUBJECT: December 7, 2001 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2001 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
3Com (& CommWorks)             Roy Leventhal*
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer                 John Figueroa
Applied Simulation Technology  [Raj Raghuram], Norio Matsui,
                               Fred Balistreri
Avanti                         (Chen Hongyu)
Cadence Design                 [Ian Dodd], Patrick Dos Santos, Heiko Dudek,
                               Lynne Green, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Lungfu Chen
Cypress Semiconductor          (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, Jinhua Chen
Fairchild Semiconductor        Adam Tambone
Huawei Technologies            Rachild Chen
IBM                            Michael Cohen, Greg Edlund, Wes Martin,
                               Yeon-Chang Hahm, Bill DeVey, Pravin Patel
Innoveda (& HyperLynx)         Guy de Burgh*, John Angulo*, Cary Mandel, 
                               Matthew Flora, Steve Kaufer
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*,
                               Dave Lorang, Michael Mirmak, Qinglun Chen,
                               Will Hobbs, Wei-hsing Huang
LSI Logic                      Larry Barnes
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*, Tom Dagostino, Chris Reid,
                               Mike Donnelly, Hazem Hegazy, Tony Dunbar,
                               Griff Derryberry, Dan Lake, Sherif Hammad,
                               Mohammed Korany, Weston Beal, Chris Swaim,
                               Ali Samii, Eric Ronger, Karine Loudet,
                               Daisaku Shiga, Kenji Kushima, Ian Dodd
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*, Yong Phan, Tim Wells, Bob Cox
Mitsubishi                     Pat Hefferan
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella, Brian O'Malley
Motorola                       (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
NEC Corporation                (Akimoto Tetsuya)
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre
Philips Semiconductor          Zack Ciccone, Rob Mataheroe
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Siemens (& Automotive) AG      Bernhard Unger, Helmut Katzier,
                               Katja Koller, Wolfram Meyer, Eckhard Lenski,
                               Gerald Bannert, Burkhard Muller,
                               Christian Marot, Manfred Maurer,
                               Amir Motamedi, Hans Pichlmaier
Signal Integrity Software      Douglas Burns, Barry Katz, Walter Katz
Sigrity                        Raj Raghuram, Winson Yu
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow, Rob Hinz, Bernard Voss,
                               Chris Brewster
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Stephen Nolan, Ramzi Ammar,
                               Jean Claude Perrin, Moshiul Haque
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Tyco Electronics               (Russell Moser)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Zuken (& Incases)              John Berrie, Ralf Bruening

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2001:
Actel Corporation              Silvia Montoya
Acuson                         Kim Helliwell
AMCC                           Jeff Smith
ASIS Ltd                       David Wright
Brocade Communications         Robert Badal
BMW                            Friedrich Hasinger
Cereva Networks                Bob Haller
Compaq                         [Peter LaFlamme], Ron Bellomio, Quang Dam,
                               Bill Ham
EADS Airbus Industry           Claude Huet
  (Aerospatiale)
EFM                            Ekkehard Miersch, Horle Raines
EIA                            Cecilia Fleming*
Ericsson Radio Systems         Anders Ekholm
FCI                            Sercu Stefaan
Foundary Networks              Bertram Chan
Framatom Conectors             Danny Morlion
Fraunhofer Institute           Mariusz Faferko, Peter Kralicek
  Reliability and
  Integration
Fujitsu Ltd                    Tadashi Arai, Takeshi Murakami
Heidelberger Druchmaschinen AG Wolfgang Kleinfeldt
Hyundai Electronics            Jongho Kang
Idaho State University         Al Davis
Infineon Technologies          Christian Sporrer
Intrinsix Corporation          Steven Chin
KAW/USA                        Shinichi Maeda
National Institute of Applied  Etienne Sicard
  Science (INSA)
Nokia                          Tapani von Ravner, Mika Castren,
                               Janne Uusitalo
North Carolina State U.        Paul Franzon
Nortel Networks                Calvin Trowell
Oak Technology                 Darmin Jin
Plexus Technology Group        Joseph Socha
Sintecs                        Hans Klos
STMicroelectronics             Peter Hirt, Fabrice Boissieres
Sun                            Adrian Udenze
Toshiba Corp.                  Hirokaza Kato, Yuichi Koga, Toshio Sudo
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are
as follows:

  Date                Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode
  January 11, 2002    1-916-356-2663   2                8295945
                      (International Dial-in the same)

  January 28, 2002    IBIS Summit Meeting, Santa Clara California
                      (No teleconference)

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas
out 7 days before each Open Forum, and meeting minutes out within 7 days
after.  When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted
by Stephen Peters and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new attendees.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Stephen Peters reported that these minutes contain the total participation
list for year 2001.  The list will be restarted with the first January 2002
meeting minutes.  Currently we are at 34 official members.

Cecilia Fleming reported that the invoices for year 2002 membership will be
sent out to existing members and a few other companies that have expressed
interest in joining.  Bob Ross will be reviewing the list for the most
recent addresses.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The November 16, 2001 IBIS Minutes were approved without change.

The ARs were discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Stephen Peters reported that Syed Huq updated the Roster pages for Compaq,
Micron and STMicroelectronics.  

Stephen also noted that the roster page changes appearance depending on the
internet browser used to view the page.  Syed and Bob Ross tracked the
problem down to the HTML code on the roster page and are currently working
to fix the problem. 

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Roy Leventhal reported that this coming week he will update the 
Quicklogic link.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES

Bob Ross requested that Bug 64 and Bug 65 be added to the agenda.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- JEITA ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
  (IMIC) -  Stephen Peters noted that in the last set of minutes Mr. Ito of
  Panasonic was mentioned under this agenda item.  Stephen wanted to make
  clear that Mr. Ito is not the head of the IMIC sub-committee.  In fact,
  with the acceptance of the IMIC specification by the JEITA committee the
  IMIC sub-committee is no longer in existence. After a brief discussion it
  was decided to drop the IMIC Standard agenda item from future IBIS meetings.

- IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
  (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation) - Stephen Peters and
  Bob Ross still have the action item to review the specification, and
  Stephen encouraged others to do so as well.  Bob Ross noted that he will
  be putting the links to the ICEM documents (same links that were published
  in last meetings minutes) on the IBIS website. 

- JEDEC JC-16 - Modeling and Testing - No report.

- T10, Project 1414-DT - SCSI Signal Modeling (a Technical Committee of the
  National Committee for Information Technology (NCITS)) - No report.

IBIS SUMMIT MEETING AT DESIGNCON 2002 
Stephen Peters reported on the plans for the IBIS Summit Meeting scheduled
on Monday, January 28, 2002 associated with DesignCon 2002 in Santa Clara,
California.  Milt Schwartz sent out the initial announcement for signup and
presentations.

Guy de Burgh stated that Innoveda is still planning to provide the IBIS
booth.  Guy will send out a reflector note asking for member company logos
on 1/4 inch, 8-1/2 by 11 foam board if the existing one has not changed or
a new company wants to provide one for the IBIS booth backdrop.  Stephen will
provide Guy with an IBIS write-up for distribution at the booth.  Guy will
make copies.  Stephen also expects to provide IBIS_ML, IBIS Connector
Specification, and IBIS Version 3.2 documents for the booth for review (but
not for handing out since they are large and also available electronically.

Milt is handling the arrangements and National Semiconductor is sponsoring
the lunch, free to attendees who sign up.  Milt reported that 6 individuals
have signed up officially, and Bob expects a further 25 people to sign up
based on word of mouth.  Stephen reminded everyone to sign up so that Milt
can have an accurate headcount.  Stephen also noted that Fred Balistreri
and Applied Simulation Technology will be providing the LCD projector.

Bob reported that we plan the following presentations (titles may change):

  "JEITA Activity Report", Atsuji Ito, Panasonic
  "IBIS-ML Futures and Discussion", Stephen Peters, Intel
  "IBIS-ML Examples", Lynne Green, Cadence
  "Connector Specification Discussion", Gus Panella, Molex
  "EMC Presentation", Guy de Burgh, Innoveda
  "IBIS Accuracy at IBM", Greg Edlund, IBM
  "IBIS Users Experience", Barry Katz, Signal Integrity Software
  "IBIS Version 4.0 Report"  TBD

Stephen also reported that there are three DesignCon2002 presentations that
directly relate to IBIS are listed in the catalog for Wednesday, January 30:

  "A Comparison of IBIS to HSPICE in Simulation of a 2.5 Gbps LVDS Buffer"
  (Chris Brewster, Siqual; Dave Thomson, Agere Systems)

  "Assessing and Improving the Quality of IBIS Models"
  (Kevin fisher, Barry Katz, Steven Ladd, Roberd Moles, Signal Integrity
  Software; John Figueroa, Apple Computer)

  "Accurately Modeling LVDS with IBIS"
  (Adam Tambone, Fairchild Semiconductor)

Several other active IBIS people are also presenting at DesignCon 2002.

Stephen expects that another announcement will be sent out next week.

FUTURE SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS
- Date2002
  Bob Ross reported that plans are underway for a European IBIS Summit
  Meeting on Friday, March 8, 2002 associated with DATE2002 in Paris France.
  Innoveda, Mentor Graphics and Zuken are co-sponsoring and funding the
  meeting.  Bob reported that an announcement should be sent out in early
  January 2002 (even before the DesignCon2002 IBIS meeting for presentations
  and signup.  As before, there will probably be a strong emphasis on
  EMC/EMI issues.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Bob Ross reported no recent models have been received.

MAJORDOMO UPDATE
John Angulo reported that we are going to a closed list.  One Spam message
has been received that got distributed.  Bob Ross noted that because the
list is now closed, some folks from Mentor Graphics and Innoveda are no
longer able to post to the list.  This is because their sending e-mail
address is different than their receiving one, thus they are not subscribed
to the list.  In addition, John noted that the majordomo system does not
send any indication to a poster that their e-mail bounced.  The majority
of active posters seem to have this problem.  After discussion it was
decided to revert back to the open list again, at least temporarily.
John will investigate how to get the majordomo system to return an
intelligent 'bounced message' indication to a sender if their e-mail
address is not in the subscription list. 

Bob Ross reported he has not yet investigated a list [IBIS] title and 
appending the IBIS messages with archive and subscription information.

CONNECTOR PROPOSAL REPORT
Stephen Peters reported on meetings held November 20 and December 4, 2001.
The next meeting will be held on December 11, 2002.  Assuming there are 
no copyright or other issues, the connector committee is planning on 
incorporating the Touchstone S-parameter format into the specification.
The next two meeting will concentrate on an editorial review of section
8 (matrix formats).  The committee plans on having a copy of the
connector specification available for comment at the upcoming IBIS summit.

IBIS FUTURES REPORT
Stephen Peters reported on meetings held November 29 and December 6
2001.  The next meetings are scheduled for December 13 and December 20.
Work continues on defining the macro language (IBIS-ML) and reviewing
the implementation of IBIS 3.2 in IBIS-ML.  Stephen reported that after
reviewing the existing attempt to describe IBIS 3.2 using IBIS-ML that
it has become apparent that a lot more work remains.  Stephen does not
believe that the committee will have a fully fleshed out IBIS-ML 1.0 
specification ready in time for the IBIS summit.

BIRD73.4 - FALL BACK SUBMODEL
Bob Ross issued BIRD73.4 with editorial cleanup and changes based on 
the comments received at the November 16th, 2001 meeting.  Only one 
table was corrected. However, due to the low quorum and the fact that
several technical reviewers have not had a chance to closely review
BIRD73.4, Stephen and Bob recommended postponing the vote on this Bird
until the January 7th meeting.

AR, All -- review the Bird in preparation for a vote at the next meeting. 

IBISCHK3 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora sent out ibischk3.2.8 to the companies
holding the source code license.  The executables have been developed by
Guy de Burgh (Unix), Matthew Flora (Windows) and Lynne Green (Linux).  These
have been uploaded under:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ibischk3/

(Bob sent out an incorrect link.)

BUG48-56 (except previously fixed BUG53) and BUG59 were fixed.  The bug list
has been updated under:

  http//www.eda.org/pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/

Thanks to all for helping out on the parser distribution.

Atul Agarwal has billed us for his work at $3126, which we had agreed to
previously.  We want to call for a consensus vote to approve payment from
our bank account.

Stephen Peters called for vote, and the IBIS committee unanimously approved
making the payment.

AR - Cecilia Fleming transfer the money to Atul's account per the Invoice.

Bob reported that two more BUG reports are planned.  We should also start
working with Atul to fix the next set of bugs for a Version 3.2.9 release.

- BUG64 - Error with Four [Driver Schedule] Entries
  Arpad Muranyi introduced BUG64.  This issue is that the specification 
  specifically allows four delay entries under the [Driver Schedule]
  keyword, yet when he tried it the parser reported this as an error.  
  Stephen Peters asked if there was a workaround to this problem, and after
  discussion we determined that there was.  Therefore, the severity of this
  bug is classified as "Moderate" rather than "Severe". 

  BUG64 was classified as MODERATE, HIGH, OPEN and to be fixed.

- BUG65 - Change P/NMOS FET Series Element Error to Warning
  Bob Ross introduced BUG65.  This came from Phillips Semiconductor, which
  is dealing with P/NMOS FET Series Elements.  The problem is that if the 
  starting current in the [Series NMOS] table is greater than the ending
  current then the parser will flag this as an error, thus preventing a
  legitimate parallel PMOS/NMOS series switch from being modeled.
  The error should be changed to a warning.  Note that accepted BIRD72.3
  allows a parallel PMOS/NMOS FET series switch element, but this bug needs
  to be fixed in the meantime.

  BUG65 was classified as MODERATE, MEDIUM, OPEN and to be fixed in the
  next release.

S2IBIS2 - BUG2 - CANNOT READ IBIS FILE USING SPITRAN
Bob Ross introduced BUG2 against the North Carolina State s2ibis2 parser
and related SPITRAN free-ware.  After some discussion, we decided that we
would not officially support such interaction issues that were documents.

BUG2 was classified as ANNOYING, LOW, WILL NOT FIX because we are not
supporting SPITRAN.

Aprad Muranyi asked if this was a s2ibis2 bug, and if it isn't why was this
bug reported as BUG2 under S2IBIS2.  Stephen Peters responded that the bug
was reported using the S2IBIS2 bug report form, so we simply were trying
to disposition the bug.

XML FOR IBIS
Bob Ross reported that he has received the XML material and the "sanitized"
examples from Atul Agarwal.  They are now uploaded under:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/xml/

The user needs to be familiar with XML and related utilities to use the
uploaded material for XML to IBIS and IBIS to XML conversions.  Atul gave
a general disclaimer, "... these illustrate an approach to IBIS/XML
modeling and the DTD's are not yet perfect."  Atul welcomes feedback.

Arpad Muranyi asked what exactly the XML file represents.  Bob replied
that this was an example IBIS data file (.ibs) file.  Bob noted that once
an .ibs file has been translated into XML it can be parsed into a data base
by an XML parser, no need for the ibis parser. 

NEXT MEETING:
The next teleconference meeting will be on Friday, January 11, 2002 from
8:00 A.M. to 10:00 AM Pacific time.  Vote on BIRD73.4.  

============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-1831
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF4-215
            2111 NE 25th Ave.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961

VICE CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

SECRETARY:  Guy de Burgh (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Manager, Innoveda
            1369 Del Norte Rd.
            Camarillo, CA 93010-8437

LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (837) 797-2152, Fax: (847) 222-2799
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, CommWorks Corp. (a wholly owned 3Com
            subsidiary)
            1800 W. Central Rd.
            Mt. Prospect, IL 60056-2293

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Innoveda
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
      subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>

      In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
      subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>

      Help and other commands:
      help

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
      bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.