Subject: IBIS: 12/9/94 Meeting Minutes (2.1 ratification)

From: Derrick Duehren <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 94 18:00:04 PST

Text item: Text_1

Date:    Dec. 12, 1994

From:    Will Hobbs (503) 696-4369, fax (503) 696-4210
         [email-masked]
         XTG Modeling Manager, Intel Corp., Chairperson, IBIS Open Forum
         Intel Corporation
         5200 NE Elam Young Pkwy, Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 USA
         and
         Derrick Duehren (503) 696-4299, fax (503) 696-4904
         [email-masked]
         Intel Program Manager

Subject: Minutes from IBIS Open Forum Meeting 12/9/94

To:
AT&T Global Info Systems      Dave Moxley
Anacad                        Steffen Rochel
Ansoft                        Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation             Dan Terry
Cadence Design                Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar*
Cadlab                        Ralf Bruning
Contec                        Dileep Divkar
Digital Equipment Corp.       Barry Katz*
EIA                           Patty Rusher
High Design Technology        Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso
HyperLynx                     Kellee Crisafulli
IBM                           Jay Diepenbrock, Joseph Flanigan
IBM-Motorola alliance         Lynn Warriner, Hoa Quoc, John Burnett
INCASES                       Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier
Integrated Silicon Systems    Eric Bracken
Integrity Engineering         Greg Doyle
Intel Corporation             Stephen Peters*, Don Telian, Will Hobbs*
                              Arpad Muranyi*, Derrick Duehren*
Interconnectix, Inc.          Bob Ross*, Scott Bloom
Intergraph                    Ian Dodd, David Wiens
IntuSoft                      Charles Hymowitz
Mentor Graphics               Ravender Goyal
Meta-Software                 Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, John Sliney
NEC                           Hiroshi Matsumoto
MicroSim                      Arthur Wong
National Semiconductor        Syed Huq
North Carolina State U.       Steve Lipa, Michael Steer
OptEM Engineering, Inc.       Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn
PC Ware                       Paul Munsey, Ron Neville
Quad Design                   Jon Powell*
Quantic Labs                  Mike Ventham*
Racal-Redac                   John Berrie
Stanford University           Randy Harr
Stree Co.                     Mon Seng(sp?)
Symmetry                      Martin Walker
Synopsys, Logic Modeling G.   Bill Lattin
Texas Instruments             Bob Ward*
Thomson-CSF/SCTF              Jean Lebrun
UniCAD Canada Ltd.            Stephen Lum*
Zeelan Technology             George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu

CC:
Intel Corporation             Randy Wilhelm, Jerry Budelman,
                              Intel IBIS team

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.

Upcoming Meetings: The room and bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences 
are listed below:
     Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #
     TBD        (916) 356-9999   TBD 

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM PDT (16:00 to 18:00 UTC).  We try to have 
agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days 
after.  When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by 
Will Hobbs and give the reservation number.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check-in, Intros, Announcements
There were no new participants.  

There were no corrections made to last month's minutes.

To date eight companies have paid for the Version 2.0.  We discussed possible 
reasons why only 8 companies have purchased the 2.0 parser.  Is there little 
interest in 2.0?  Is there little interest in IBIS altogether?  Are others just 
waiting for the final version?  For Ver 1.1, 10 companies bought the GP early, 
10 bought after ratification.  Jon Powell suggested raising the fee to $1,000 
in another month to encourage purchases now.  After discussion, we decided to 
keep the price at $500 to help encourage participation.

Update: Another company has subscribed.  Will is awaiting confirmation.

New Agenda Items: 
BIRD 24, C_comp, ramp rates and waveform tables

Press Updates: 
Derrick started a draft press release.  It needs work.  Bob Ross suggests 
keeping it short.  We asked for any quotes that anyone cares to volunteer.  We 
decided to approve the press release via the reflector.  We will try to get it 
out within a week.

AR All - Send updates of the roster to Derrick.

AR Derrick - Add a disclaimer to the public roster document indicating that 
appearance on the list does not imply active participation and support. [DONE]

AR Derrick - Submit a draft press release to the reflector today. [DONE]

Note: Derrick will disappear on vacation 12/14 through Jan 1.

Progress toward enlisting new IC vendors
Xilinx Spice-to-IBIS effort has generated models that Bob Ross has reviewed, 
commented on, and are being revised.  When ready, Xilinx will make them 
publicly available.

Will reported that a 2.0 IBIS model of a yet unannounced Intel processor will 
be distributed to Intel customers soon (simulator vendors take note).

Intel is also working internally to validate Intel's "Simplified Electrical 
Model" SEM-within-IBIS effort.  This leverages the software-parsable nature of 
IBIS to widely disseminate models that have been evaluated by, and have the 
stamp of approval of, Intel's division responsible for the Pentium(TM) 
processor family.

Intel also posted two updated chipset models (82434NX, and 82433NX) to 
vhdl.org.

Golden Parser, 2.0
Paul reported that he and Ron have nearly completed their parser development 
and they expect to finish up next week (Ron has a few final questions).  We 
discussed the naming conventions associated with preliminary releases of the 
2.1 parser.  We decided to not label the parser "2.1" until it is fully 
compliant with the ratified 2.1 spec.  Versions before that are 2.0a, 2.0b, 
etc.

The next Beta release will be next week.

AR Will -  Verify that you are using Barry Katz' latest address from the 
roster.

Paul commented that he doesn't expect to roll in the final changes until after 
the holidays.  He will evaluate all the parser changes that are needed to 
reflect the latest spec changes and submit an estimate to the forum.

AR Paul - estimate the cost of bringing the parser up to full 2.1 level.

Paul was able to create a component of 3,000 pins with no memory problems, then 
one with 100 rising waveforms with 100 points, 100 falling, etc.  He found he 
could do 2,000 pins with 5 models, then his editor ran out of steam.  It 
appears that by not saving data that isn't necessary, memory problems no longer 
exist under DOS 6.02.

BIRD 21.1 Ratification
Reapproved by consent as printed in draft B of the 2.1 draft spec document.

BIRD 23 Ratification
Minimum number of waveform points clarification.  Numeric entries must be in 
V/I tables for first and last entries in any column that has numerical data.

Approved unanimously.

BIRD 24, C_comp, ramp rates and waveform tables, ratification
This BIRD was modified (inverted!) and then approved unanimously for Ver 2.1 as 
follows:

STATEMENT OF THE RESOLVED SPECIFICATIONS:  The specification is changed in 
three places.  The first is in the 'NOTES ON DATA DERIVATION METHOD' section 
under Ramp Rates.  The second paragraph is modified to read as follows:

  "The ramp rate does not include packaging but does include the
  effects of the C_comp parameter; it is the intrinsic output stage rise and 
  fall time only."

In the section of the spec describing the [Ramp] keyword the following 
statement is added after the first sentence of the description:

  "The ramp rate does not include packaging but does include the
  effects of the C_comp parameter."

Likewise, the section describing the [Rising Waveform], [Falling Waveform] is 
modified to add the following at the end of the first paragraph:

  "The data in the waveform table is taken with the effects of the C_comp 
  parameter included."

Discussion details: 
  When ramp rate is generated, it is done by dividing dV/dT, with C_Comp = 0, 
  assumed Stephen.  We have disagreement in forum on this point, and BIRD 24 
  proposes we explicitly state our assumption.  Arpad says that his original 
  model required C_Comp = 0, but the V1.1 says to measure with package 
  removed, but doesn't mention C_Comp, making C_Comp implicitly included.  
  Measurement is impossible to do without C_Comp.  Even Spice has it in.  The 
  50 models published by TI have data that would be nearly impossible to back 
  out C_Comp by playing with the Spice parameters.

  Jon Powell discussed the difficulty of generating IBIS models to IBIS spec 
  through measurement, especially with regard to package parameters, waveform 
  tables, and probing recommendations.  We agreed to discuss, at some future 
  time, enhancements to IBIS that could help those developing models through 
  measurement.  It is preferred but not required to extract the waveform 
  with the package parameters removed, but it is not required.  If r_dut, 
  c_dut, and l_dut are not included    We won't make this change to BIRD 24, 
  since it is already clear in the spec.

  We made specific changes to the wording of BIRD 24 and we passed it.  

AR Stephen - Make agreed changes, publish as BIRD 24.1 and put on reflector. 
[Done]

V_load Discussion
Bob Ross proposed that the V_Load keyword doesn't need to be added, since 2.0 
already allows it using the waveform method.  A linear waveform can be used 
instead of [ramp], stating the conditions explicitly.

We decided that it was too complicated to implement... a non issue.

IBIS Spec Rev 2.1 Ratification
Minor grammatical and typo changes were made, and "Seconds" was added as a 
scaling factor.

VOTE TAKEN, IBIS SPEC REV 2.1 WAS APPROVED UNANIMOUSLY.

AR Derrick - Input the changes, publish Ver 2.1 to the reflector, and post it 
to vhdl.org. [DONE]

IBIS General Session/Summit (face-to-face)
AR All - Please continue to post topics to the reflector whether or not you 
think it's hot.  For example, your experiences implementing IBIS can be 
valuable to others.

AR - Derrick arrange date/time/place for January meeting Jan 30th - Feb 10th. 
and city preferences.

AR Will - Mail EIA documents to Bob Ross.

Rev 2.1 Fallout
The following items need to be updated to support/reflect the updated spec.  
Bob Ross volunteered to help in some way.  Will suggested that the Overview 
document should be first so we're not giving out old information.
  o Cookbook
  o Overview
  o S2IBIS

What to do with Existing Models that Don't have the C_Comp Subparameters
AR All - Everyone who has created IBIS models should review their models to 
determine if C_comp is properly represented per the new definition of C_comp.

Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans
Our next meeting is 1/6/95.  We will determine then what future schedule of 
meetings we want.

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                                      NOTES
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Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
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