Subject: 3/11/94 IBIS Meeting Minutes

From: Derrick Duehren <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 94 12:12:13 PST

Text item: Text_1

Date:    March 16, 1994

From:    Derrick Duehren (503) 696-4299, fax (503) 696-4904
         [email-masked]
         Intel Program Manager
         (Will Hobb's IBIS Assistant)
         Intel Corporation
         5200 NE Elam Young Pkwy, Hillsboro, Oregon 97124 USA
         and
         Will Hobbs (503) 696-4369,  fax (503) 696-4210
         Intel Modeling Manager

Subject: Minutes from IBIS Open Forum 3/11/94

To:
Anacad                        Steffen Rochel
Ansoft                        Henri Maramis
Atmel Corporation             Dan Terry
Cadence Design                Sandeep Khanna, Chris Reed,
                              Pawel Chadzynski, Kumar*
Contec                        Maah Sango*, Dermott Lynch,
                              Clark Cochran, Mike Venthon*
Digital Equipment Corp.       Barry Katz*
High Design Technology        Michael Smith
HyperLynx                     Steve Kaufer, Kellee Crisafulli*
IBM                           Jay Diepenbrock
IBM-Motorola alliance         Lynn Warriner, Hoa Quoc*, John Burnett 
Integrity Engineering         Greg Doyle, Wayne Olhoft
Intel Corporation             Stephen Peters*, Don Telian, Will Hobbs*
                              Arpad Muranyi, Derrick Duehren*
Interconnectix, Inc.          Bob Ross*
Intergraph                    Ian Dodd*, David Wiens*
IntuSoft                      Charles Hymowitz
Logic Modeling Corp.          Randy Harr
Mentor Graphics               Greg Seltzer, Ravender Goyal
Meta-Software                 Mei Wong, Mei-Ling Wei
MicroSim                      Arthur Wong, Jerry Brown, Graham Bell
National Semiconductor        Syed Huq*
North Carolina State U.       Paul Franzon, Michael Steer, Steve Lipa*
Performance Signal Integrity  Vivek Raghawan, Eric Bracken*
Quad Design                   Jon Powell*
Quantic Labs                  Mike Ventham*, Zhen Mu
Racal-Redac                   John Berrie
Siemens Nixdorf               Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier
Texas Instruments             Bob Ward*
Thomson-CSF/SCTF              Jean Lebrun
Zeelan Technology             Hiro Moriyasu, George Opsahl

CC:
Intel Corporation             Randy Wilhelm, Jerry Budelman,
                              Intel IBIS team

In the list above, attendees at the 2/18/94 meeting are indicated by *

Upcoming Meetings:  Date:      Bridge:          Res:
                    4/1/94     (415) 904-8944   661905
                    4/22/94    TBD
                    5/13/94    TBD
                    6/3/94     TBD
                    6/24/94    TBD

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM PST (16:00 to 18:00 UTC).  We try to
have agendas out 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out
within 7 days after.  When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS
Open Forum and give the bridge operator the reservation number.

Please note:  If you know of someone new who wants to join the e-mail
reflector ([email-masked]) send e-mail to [email-masked].

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3/11/94 Meeting Agenda
----------------------

8:00  Check-in
      Intros of new IBIS participants                 Hobbs
      Review of 2/18/94 minutes                       Hobbs
      Miscellany/Announcements                        Hobbs
      Opens for new issues (reshuffle last 5 items?)  All
      Treasurer's Report                              Hobbs
      Press updates                                   Hobbs/All
      Progress toward enlisting new IC vendors        All
      IBIS 2.0 Ratification                           Hobbs
      -  DAC Conference 6/6 - 6/10
      -  Steering Committee (5/20? Who? Where?)
      IBIS Cookbook                                   Hobbs
      Spice-to-IBIS Converter                         Lipa (NCSU)
8:30  Stnd. driver, quality of support, validation    Hobbs, All
      BIRD 8, Spec. of V/I data monotonicity          Crisafulli
      BIRD 9, Other model types                       Ross
      BIRD 2, VIH, VIL Thresholds for Inputs          Powell
      Egg 1, mutual pin coupling (ready to hatch?)    Bracken
9:00  Simulation temperatures (new BIRD?)             Warriner
      Ramp measurement                                Reid, Ross, et. al.
      Egg 2, ramp table?                              Hobbs
9:30  Canright paper                                  Ward
      Formal BNF notation (BIRD?)                     Reed, Harr
      High freq. and EMI                              Goyal, et. al.
      Phased turn-on/off of multiple devices          Powell
9:55  Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans                     Hobbs

Minutes
-------

1.  Intros of new IBIS participants
New participants: None.

There were no corrections made to last month's minutes.  Several open ARs 
(attention required) are rolled into this meeting minutes.

2.  Miscellany/Announcements
No new announcements.

3.  Opens for new issues (reshuffle last 5 items?)
Kellee: A large number of new people are creating IBIS models.  Nearly all have 
put the sign in wrong in at least one of the V/I tables (both diode and pull-
up/pull-down tables).  Most of the errors are simple mistakes.  We need a quick 
update to the IBIS check program to check for correct polarity in these tables. 
Kellee then made a proposal for checking these tables and issuing a warning 
message.

Jon Powell offered to change the parser, Kellee outlined how to do it.  It 
involves sorting the data and analyzing for polarity.

AR Kellee: Write an emergency BIRD for the change.

Approval will be attempted by the reflector within 1 week.

AR Will: Administer the voting on the emergency BIRD.

AR Jon: Make the change to the parser, once the BIRD is approved by the forum 
        and pass it to Will Hobbs for distribution to those who have already 
        paid for the parser source code.  (Note: Will is uncomfortable with 
        posting the encrypted source to vhdl.org.  Will's address is:
            US Mail:                     Private Mail Delivery (FedEx):
            Will Hobbs                   Will Hobbs
            M/S JF1-57                   M/S JF1-57
            5200 NE Elam Young Pkwy      2111 NE 25th St.
            Hillsboro, OR 97124          Hillsboro, OR 97124

Jon heard that the RS6000 version of Golden Parser doesn't work, but the update 
is that it was cockpit error.

4.  Treasurer's Report
Will has inquired with the Intel legal dept. regarding the Tax ID issue and is 
waiting for a response.  A check for the golden parser is pending, waiting for 
the Tax ID.  Another check has arrived for the GP.  Will wants approval from the
buyer before mentioning who it is.

5.  Press updates
In the IEEE Spectrum publication, Pg. 54 of March issue; there is an article on 
managing EMI by Ravender Goyal that references IBIS and most of the 
participating companies.

6.  Progress toward enlisting new IC vendors
Will noted that he is seeing more IC vendors being added to the IBIS reflector.

Jon: First-try PowerPC IBIS models have been received.

Hoa Quoc: PowerPC IBIS model is available now and he can post them to vhdl.org.

AR Derrick/Randy: send instructions for posting IBIS models to vhdl.org.

Bob Ward: TI is getting closer, IBIS is a "good thing".  Full buy-in should come
soon.

Syed: In process of convincing National Semiconductor upper management, but may 
have to wait for 2.0 for differential support before they can implement.

Barry: Just a matter of time for Digital.  The IBIS cookbook is needed.

Will: The Intel DX4(TM) processor now has a public IBIS model; also several 
Intel960(TM) family IBIS models are publicly available.  Will is working to get 
Pentium(TM) family of processors available, but it may take a while.  Will and 
Derrick will be putting the new Intel models on vhdl.org.  Another set of 
chipset IBIS models should be coming soon.

7.  IBIS 2.0 Ratification
    -  DAC Conference 6/6 - 6/10
       After discussing the potential schedule of the conference, we decided to 
       have Jon and Derrick decide on the two days and post them soon so travel 
       plans can be made.

       AR Derrick and Jon: Decide and post.

    -  Steering/Editing Committee (5/20? Who? Where?)
       Bob Ross, Stephen, Kellee, Jon, Will, Syed volunteered to participate  
       May 20, in Portland, OR.  It is open to anyone that enjoys editing stuff 
       and making it more logical and comprehensible, and wants to visit 
       Portland in May.  The output of this committee will be posted to the 
       reflector for general comment and review before the DAC session, so 
       nothing will be final until everyone has had a chance to make their 
       opinions known.

       AR Derrick: Make arrangements for May 20 meeting. 

8.  IBIS Cookbook
Intel's internal Cookbook is nearly complete.  We have an Intel tech writer 
(Robin R.) available for 1 week to create a generic base document from which the
forum can build.  Should be avail in 4 wks.  Kellee will review.

9.  Spice-to-IBIS Converter
Steve Lipa:  In holding mode with SPICE-to-IBIS converter because SPICE wasn't 
working on Sun and RS6000 workstations until yesterday.  They want to hold off 
until it is tested on all major platforms.  All development is done on DEC 
2100's and 3100's.  Steve is writing Man pages and has added all min/max tables 
except ramp table.  (Steve wants feedback before doing ramp table.)  

AR Steve: Post the Man page drafts for forum review. (Done)

Steve has Berkeley SPICE version 3 and version 4, and has not tried any 
proprietary versions (Hspice, etc.).  Kellee proposed sending one of his IBIS 
models to the reflector and have the forum try it for sanity check.  He will 
"put" the executable at \incoming on vhdl.org.

Steve needs a non-Berkeley spice simulator for IBIS model.  Kellee offered to 
provide one.

AR Steve: Put your IBIS output file to the reflector.  Add test vectors. 
          Others can test it and provide feedback.

Bob Ross asked if NCSU had made any progress on the Lex/Yacc IBIS parser.  Steve
said that Michael has it pretty much working.  It will be posted publicly soon.

10. Stnd. driver, quality of support, validation
Agreement from last meeting:  Companies will self-certify (see 2/18/94 minutes).

Old AR Will: See if Intel/Don Telian can release waveforms for the 
             simulations in the Overview doc.  The data should end up in 
             Postscript format so the curves can be universally accessed.

Old AR Everyone: If, and when you self-certify (run the test suite), send email 
                 to [email-masked] so Derrick can add the 
                 information to the Participants Roster document.  Include what 
                 IBIS version level you support.

11. BIRD 8, Spec. of V/I data monotonicity
The existing BIRD has a few limitations.  Many feel it needs to be more 
restrictive.  Kellee is waiting to hear from others, but feels that monotonicity
should be in one axis only (voltage).  Jon said that the designs that were non-
monotonic in current were abandoned because they rang too much.  Many felt that 
we could restrict both axes to be monotonic, because we currently don't have any
time dependency support (hysteresis or fold-back), and therefore we couldn't 
model it anyway.  Kumar and Maah feel we should make the one-axis restriction 
conditional.

Stephen drew a picture of non-monotonic I with monotonic V (similar to below) 
that looked real.  Bob Ward knows of one but is not sure if he can make it 
available.

     |                              *
     |               *          *
  I  |           *      *   * 
     |       *     
     |   *      
     |______________________________
                V

The Forum decided to leave monotonicity on voltage axis and call it good.

AR Kellee: Update BIRD 8 accordingly.

12. BIRD 9, Other model types
Bob Ross discussed bird 9.1.  He added series and AC terminators.  Discussion 
indicated some confusion about whether the new model types were inside or 
outside IC package (tied in with bird 2.1 questions).

Kellee: "Are we degenerating from original IBIS proposal to stay away from 
trying to model resisters and capacitors?"  

Bob: We need to constrain the IBIS model.

Kellee: Suggests a small modification to current model; add series resisters.  
"Maybe we need building blocks that we can add together?"

Bob might create a BIRD to handle the series resistor as a separate model.  
No conclusions.  Continue discussion on reflector.

"IBIS is a bird that thrives in muddy waters", J. Powell.

13. BIRD 2.1 VIH, VIL Thresholds for Inputs
We briefly discussed BIRD 2.1 and noted some conflicts with the recently passed 
BIRD 7.2.

AR Jon: Reconcile BIRD 2.1 with BIRD 7.2 and come out with BIRD 2.2 or a new 
        BIRD.

14. Egg 1, mutual pin coupling (ready to hatch?)
Not discussed.

15. Simulation temperatures (new BIRD?)
Lynn not present

16. Ramp measurement
Not discussed.

17. Egg 2 ramp table?
Will suggests this Egg.  No time to discuss.

18. Canright paper
Not discussed.

19. Formal BNF notation (BIRD?)
Steve Lipa: The BNF parser from Michael Steer is working, but Steve has been 
involved on other things.  NCSU uses it as their parser.

20. High freq. and EMI
Not discussed.

21. Phased turn-on/off of multiple devices
Not discussed.

22. Wrap-up, Next Meeting Plans
AR Derrick: Schedule phone bridge connections for future meetings.  Next is 
4/1/93.