Subject: IBIS 9/27/96 MINUTES

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 96 16:55 PDT

DATE: September 30, 1996

 SUBJECT: 9/27/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
  
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick, Russ Moser,
				Ray Ziesse*
 Applied Simulation Technology  Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui, Antonis Orphanou
    (formerly Contec)
 Cadence Design                 C. Kumar
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier, Ralf Bruening
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
				John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
				[Donald Telian], Jim Kruchowski
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross*, Chris Reid
 Meta-Software                  (Sanjay Gangal)
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
 Motorola                       Ahmed Omer*
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh,
				Bill Aronson
 NCR (formerly ATT-GIS)         Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek*
 Quantic Laboratories           (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
				Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Celso Faia*
 Veribest                       Ian Dodd, David Wiens
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
				Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions,
				Hrish Patel
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie)
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
 3M                             Fran Hart*
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Altera                         Vadim von Brzeski
 Apteq Design System            Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Mark Leonard
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 IC Works                       Eric Chen
 Mentor Graphics                Kim Owen
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Oki Semiconductor              Tom Chao
 Philips Semiconductor          Mike Magdaluyo
 Rockwell Collins               Thomas Thurman
 S3, Inc.                       Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong    
 Seimans Nixdorf                Arnaud Lacariere
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tektronix, Inc.                Brock Hannibal
 TRW & Free Model Foundation    Robert Harrison
 VTC, Inc.                      Bob Ward
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principle
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who have joined another organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      10/18/96   (916) 356-9200   3-54605          8249548

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS
 Fran Hart from 3M joined.  She is in the Electrical Products Group in Texas
 working with connectors, cables, and flex circuits.  She provides the
 Spice models of connectors and cables, chip carriers and interconnects.  Her
 current interest is in ground plane analysis.  She is investigating IBIS
 is concerned about too much variation between the Spices.

 Dileep Divekar announced that Contec now has become Applied Simulation
 Technology, but remains the same.  The roster and attendees list has been
 updated.

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Jeff Chu reported that the DEC membership payment is progressing internally.
 
 Bob Ross reported receiving Patti Rusher's August 1996 IBIS ledger report.
 It shows $9,285, not change from last month.  Patti indicated that some
 shared EIA expenses will be deducted before the end of the year.

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 No corrections.  All AR's were completed.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS and WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Jon Powell reported the EDN, September 26, 1996, pp. 97-104, has and article
 "Solving signal-integrity problems in high-speed digital systems" which
 gives several references to IBIS.  This article (minus a few paragraphs)
 was taken from Jon's presentation at Design SuperCon96 (co-sponsored by EDN).

 (Also, Greg Edlund wrote in EDN, July 18, 1996, pp. 111-124, " Noise budgets 
 help maintain signal integrity in low-voltage systems" and advocated IBIS
 and Spice models.  This article was also adapted from Greg's presentation
 at Design SuperCon96.)

 Bob Ross has put a Word Version of the final draft (before editorial revision)
 of the EE Times article (September 2, 1996) "IBIS standards provides I/O
 buffer models" on vhdl.org as

    /pub/ibis/documents/eet96.doc

 for downloading.  Permission has been granted to do this.

 Syed Huq plans to convert the EE Times article into HTML and provide access
 through the EIA/IBIS home page.
 
 Fran Hart wanted access to the BIRD documents.  Syed Huq plans to provide
 a link to the bird directory from the EIA/IBIS home page.  There already
 is access directly from the http://vhdl.org/pub/ibis/birds.

 Arpad Muranyi and Bob worked on downloading some older document files 
 (overview.*) and found some of them corrupted with ^M data.  This included
 the *.ps, *.rtf and .wfw files.  John Powell indicated that file uploading
 is very dependent on what OS was being used.  He will investigate the 
 document files and work with Bob if any change is needed (revise or remove).

 Bob also reports that the contacts.txt document is updated whenever new
 information or changes are received.  Similarly the roster.txt is updated
 immediately.  Now is a good time to review your entry and submit updates
 (or new roster information) to Bob.  The address is at the top of the roster. 

 NEW MODELS
 Arpad Muranyi will work with Jon Powell concerning an Intel update on the
 readme file for three new models under NDA.  Stephen Peters also submits
 Intel readme information, but only for his area (PentiumPro, etc.). 

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Patti Rusher regarding DAC97 planning.

 DAC97 PLANNING (AND OTHER MEETINGS)
 Patti Rusher will be sending out letters to the heads of the various groups
 within EIA regarding participation plans for the Design Automation conference
 in June, 1997 in Anaheim, California.  This discussion will be put of the
 agenda for the next meeting.

 National has offered to host the Design SuperCon97 IBIS meeting in Santa Clara
 California in late January 1997 on the Monday prior the conference.  Other
 companies are welcome to offer hosting (or co-hosting) the event.  It was very
 successful with about 45 very top-level participants.  

 Will Hobbs indicated that it would be fair to hold some East Coast meetings
 since nearly all of the IBIS meetings have been on the West Coast.  Fran Hart
 from Austin Texas thought that central USA might be a nice compromise!

 EIA/JAPAN - IBIS WORKING GROUP
 Bob Ross reported making contact with Hideki Fukuda of Hitachi who is in the
 Semiconductor Standardization Committee in EIAJ.  The task group is surveying
 I/O interface models from the IC supplier's point of view.  Bob has provided
 IBIS information,  Hideki plans to keep Bob informed of the activities.

 Jon Powell and Arpad Muranyi reported other possible individuals.  Patti
 Rusher works with higher level EIAJ individuals who would be aware of any
 serious new I/O buffer standardization efforts.  EIAJ works with EIA, and EIA
 has international membership.  IBIS is proceeding in the International arena,
 and Patti sees no serious parallel effort.

 IEC EXPRESS FUNDING PROGRESS
 Patti Rusher reports that IBIS has been submitted as a work item in IEC
 (International Electrotechnical Commission) in TC-93.  She will receive
 confirmation that it has been accepted next week.  The next step is for
 ANSI/EIA-656 (IBIS Version 2.1) to be forwarded to the standards bodies in
 of each member nation for formal voting.

 So funding for an Express format of IBIS is not needed at this time.  Patti
 is working on a larger proposal to submit to DARPA related to a component
 information management system where users can select information from a
 component database.  Standardized models could be part of the database.  So
 any future funding proposals may reside within this larger proposal.
 Consequently, she is not pursuing the smaller standards cleanup proposal.

 BIRD34.1 - STORED CHARGE EFFECT (Vote)
 Bob Ross summarized that BIRD34.1 introduces two new optional keywords [TTgnd]
 and [TTpower] under [Model].   These allow a first order approximation of the
 stored charge glitch seen in practice.  It is also seen in Spice simulations
 of unterminated, clamped transmission lines when the optional TT parameter is
 in in the Spice clamping diode modle.  The new keywords are associated 
 with [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp] tables, respectively.

 Stephen Peters provided a minor editorial change.  Bob received a correction
 regarding Zo and TD values.  Arpad Muranyi wanted "nS" changed to "ns" to
 be consistent with the rest of IBIS.  Arpad also reported that some of the
 "txt" figures were misaligned.  Dileep Divekar questioned whether the
 test circuit in BIRD34.1 actually forward biased the diode to produce the
 effect.  Bob confirmed that it did based on the impedance mismatches and
 corresponding reflections, and also based on actual Spice simulation.

 BIRD34.1 was approved by unanimous vote with the above changes.

 AR - Bob Ross issue approved BIRD34.2 containing the above corrections and
 upgrade the "work in progress" version of IBIS in the /pub/ibis/wip directory
 to include BIRD34.2.

 SPECIFICATION COMMITTEE REPORT
 Jon Powell reported on the first meeting.  The mission is to deal with any 
 parameter that does not effect actual performance of signal integrity or 
 timing simulations.  Thus the thresholds Vinh, Vinl and the timing references
 fall within the Specification domain.  This group is discussing pulse width
 noise immunity, input threshold extensions including hysteresis, overshoot
 extensions including research on overshoot vs. time specification and other
 areas.  This group consisting of Jon Powell, Jon Fitzpatrick, Ahmed Omer,
 and Bob Ross already has BIRD38 and other proposals.  It expects to come
 to agreement and issue one or more specification BIRDs for IBIS Committee
 consideration.

 Arpad Muranyi and Jon raised the question regarding how IBIS pending
 specifications on overshoot relate to those in RAIL.  Ahmed Omer and felt
 that RAIL related to the net specification, whereas IBIS is related to the
 part itself.  Bob felt that the RAIL specification might override and
 IBIS specification in processing, but the actual handling would be
 simulator dependent - e.g., report an error or have one override the other.
 However, the designer might purposely specify tighter rules in RAIL 
 corresponding to the weakest device rather than rely on device limits in
 IBIS.  Thus the consensus was that there is no conflict.  IBIS should
 proceed to consider including all relevant device related specification
 parameters.

 EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
 Bob Ross started the discussion by going over Chris Rukusek's suggestions
 that he mailed.

 Suggestion 5 related to setting Ramp, package, and C_comp value limits
 which would trigger flags.  Arpad Muranyi and others felt that some of
 the limits were too tight based on some non-typical, but practical 
 applications of IBIS.  One suggestion is to increase the trigger values
 by three or six orders of magnitudes related to someone forgetting to put
 in units or for putting in extreme values. 

 Will Hobbs and others suggested considering a configuration table or some
 other method so that the user could adjust the limits depending on the
 application.  

 Bob stated that the proposal could be for ibis_chk (Version 1.1), 
 ibischk2 (Version 2.1 which also includes the complete copy of ibis_chk
 for Version 1.1 checking). or a future ibischk3.x for future IBIS.  One
 could also consider a separate utility for reality checking rather than
 work the logistics of retrofitting these older versions.

 The revised values for approximately three orders of magnitude are:

     C_comp       1 nF
     Pin C        1 nF
     Pin L        1 uH
     Pin R        1 k
     Ramp Times   1 ms 
    
 Suggestion 3 related to defining when a diode has suspiciously large
 to warrant a warning message.  The 10A, 1.5V limit seemed reasonable.
 Chis reported that he had seen this limit exceeded in only several IBIS
 files on vhdl.org, and these curves were suspicious.  This setting would
 also fall within the configuration discussion.

 Suggestion 2 related to testing the waveform data endpoints with the
 I/V table data to assure consistency.  There was general agreement to
 do this.  

 Suggestion 1 related to a robust testing of I/V table polarities.  Chris
 felt that the intent of the test was already being handled sufficiently
 by ibischk2 since it will issue a report based on endpoint polarity 
 difference errors.

 Suggestion 4 related to some number of points and curvature detection
 test so that unstable numerical artifacts are flagged.  There was much
 resistance to this because of the trickiness to determine the proper values.
 Plus, different simulators using different algorithms may have their unique
 sensitivities.  So this suggestion is dropped.

 Bob and others thru discussion indicated that the next step is for Chris
 to work through the PARSER BUG REPORT process to take the results of this
 discussion and put forth a proposal for changing the parser.  The BIRD
 process is used for actual specification changes.  The items in EGG10 relate
 to ibischk parser enhancements and relate to issuing warning messages.

 AR - Chris Rokusek submit a proposal capturing the above directions in one
 or more IBIS GOLDEN PARSER BUG REPORT FORMs - as enhancement requests.  For
 now, it should relate only to the golden parser.  In the proposal, it is
 Chris' option whether to consider configuration tables or some other
 universal method, or just propose hard coded values since the Forum did not
 indicate any preference during the discussion.

 BIRD37.2 - ENHANCEMENT OT THE PACKAGE MODEL SPECIFICATION
 Stephen Peters recently issued BIRD37.2.  It basically changes the approved
 BIRD28.3 by adding Fork and End Fork statements.  It also removes the
 controversial Matrix extensions - thereby amending and superseding BIRD28.3.
 This is based on last meetings guidance that a controversial extension was 
 worse than no extension.  This does not prohibit considering cascaded
 sections in the future based on further understanding and agreement.

 Bob Ross had some minor editorial changes that do not effect the content
 of BIRD37.2.  A vote on BIRD37.2 is planned at the next meeting.

 BIRD36 - ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION
 Steve Peters felt that BIRD36 is stalled for a number of reasons.  It also
 contains the cascaded Matrix extensions that were dropped in BIRD37.2.
 Plus there may be discomfort with the extensive syntax.  Stephen proposed
 reconvening the Package Committee task group to reconsider BIRD36.  The
 same members are expected to join.  Also Fran Hart and Ahmed Omer indicated
 interest in joining.  Everyone is welcome to join.

 AR - Stephen Peters get the telephone bridge numbers and send out a message
 on vhdl.org announcing the details of the Package Committee meetings.

 BIRD35.1 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS
 Bob Ross still plans to produce BIRD35.2 taking into account Jon Powell's
 sample syntax and IBIS syntax.

 AR - Bob Ross produce BIRD35.2 before next meeting.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, October 18, 1996, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
 BIRD37.2 is scheduled for vote.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Vacant

 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic 
 archive server, [email-masked].
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================