Subject: IBIS MINUTES 2/16/96

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 13:49 PST

DATE:    February 21, 1996
 
 SUBJECT: 2/16/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
 
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 Cadence Design                 C. Kumar*
 Contec CAE, Ltd.               Dileep Divekar, Norio Matsui
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli
 IBM                            (Jay Diepenbrock)
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier*
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
				John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet*,
				Donald Telian, Tim Kruchowski
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross*
 Meta-Software                  (Les Spruiell)
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao
 Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh
 NCR (formerly ATT-GIS)         Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*
 Quantic Labs                   (Mike Ventham)
 Tanner Research, Inc.          (Scott Wedge)
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
				Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Celso Faia
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh*, Swami Gangadharan,
				Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie)
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick*
 Altera                         Vadim von Brzeski
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*
 Apteq Design System            Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Mark Leonard
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 IC Works                       Eric Chen
 Intergraph/Veribest            Ian Dodd
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 S3, Inc.                       Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong    
 Seimans Nixdorf                Arnaud Lacariere
 Tektronix, Inc.                Brock Hannibal
 TRW & Free Model Foundation    Robert Harrison
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl*

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principle
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 
 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      3/8/96     (916) 356-9200   1-55736          5232597
      3/29/96    (916) 356-9200   1-55737          1119667

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS
 Jeff Chu of Digital Equipment Corporation indicated that Digital has an 
 interest in making including those for the Alpha Chip and using IBIS models.

 John Fitzpatrick of Alcatel called from France and gave a description of
 his role in the general technology lab of a hardware design group.  Alcatel
 uses IBIS models for general rule checking and also for some analog 
 analysis.

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher reports that Mitusbishi Electric in Durham, North Carolina has
 become a full member the EIA IBIS Committee.

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 No corrections.  Will Hobbs will give Bob Ross some minor text corrections.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 Bob Ross would like electronic copies of the Face to Face meeting slides
 sent to him for putting on vhdl.org.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Richard Goering column "EDA caught in Web" in  Electronic Engineering Times,
 February 12, 1996, pg. 76 mentions winibis and HyperLynx home page and IBIS.

 Zen Mu and Paul Wang wrote "Developing Simulation Models for High-Speed
 Applications" in Printed Circuit Design, February, 1996, pp. 30-34 mentions
 IBIS. 

 A Netscape search using [IBIS Models] yields several sites including the
 Motorola Power PC IBIS models and a downloadable application note on 
 IBIS models from Micron Technology.

 NEW MODELS
 Syed Huq reported National Semiconductor has released three new models.
 Arpad Muranyi reported that Intel will post one new model.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 vhdl.org update
 Roster update

 EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP
 NCR, Intel, and Interconnectix reported that revised invoices have not been
 received.  

 AR - Bob Ross call EIA and find out what has happened [Done - Copies of the
 latest invoice will be FAXed to companies since reissuing invoices causes
 accounting problems.]

 DAC STANDARDS BOOTH
 The Design Automation Conference (DAC) in June, 1996 will have a Standards
 booth.  We will have literature, and the booth will serve as a place where
 IBIS people can meet and convey IBIS information.

 ANSI/EIA-656 INTERNATIONAL RATIFICATION
 Patti Rusher has reported that the US TAG (Technical Advisory Group) has
 approved a New Work Item Proposal for IBIS to go to IEC TC93.

 ANSI/EIA-656 PUBLICATION
 The document is currently in the EIA publications department being prepared
 to be forwarded to Global Engineering Documents for distribution.

 EIA WEB UPDATE
 Syed Huq reported that EIA has added a direct link to the IBIS Web page under
 the Design Automation Division subgroup by accessing

   http://www.eia.org

 Syed is investigating Web counting programs with Steve Malone of EIA that
 work with a PC server.  While we are an organization, we still may 
 decide to pay for usage of a shareware program.  Syed's plan is to 
 publicize the Web site once the counter is installed.

 Olaf Rethmeier indicated INCASES may want to supply an updated logo.
 He should send it directly to Jon Powell since the permission letter
 is already on file.

 VHDL.ORG
 The reflector has been fixed by Randy Harr and is working.  So individuals
 reported that messages come from "owner-ibis".  Bob Ross will investigate.

 ROSTER UPDATE
 Bob Ross has received responses for Roster update information from about
 half of the people.  Bob will seek responses and post the new roster soon.
 Non-member companies who do not respond will be dropped.

 GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
 Bob Ross will formally issue the three bugs through the newly established
 parser reporting system before we issue a parser correction.  A bug 
 directory exists, and a BUG form will be available there.

 SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1
 Bob Ross reported no further information, but will ask Michael Steer for
 a report on its status regarding reported problems.

 SPICE TO IBIS PLOT VERSION 1.2
 A corrected version has been put on vhdl.org.  It requires perl and 
 gnuplot, but works very nicely to display the IBIS V/I and V/T tables.

 PRIORITIES FOR 1996
 Will Hobbs discussed priorities for 1996.  He suggested validation, extended
 package models, diode transit time, and connectors.  Hank Herrmann pointed
 out that connectors are different than extended package models.  Bob Ross
 added staggered turn-on time buffers.  Will added feedback.  Arpad Muranyi
 asked if scaling was also an important item.  Stephen Peters mention SSO.
 Chris Rokusek wants clarification on worse case and best case parameters
 in IBIS.  Other specification additions for hysteresis, undershoot,
 overshoot, were suggested by Bob.
 
 The tabulated list is shown:
   validation (post 4 or 5 reality checks and add to parser)
   extended package models (electrical and physical)
   diodes
   connectors
   staggered turn-on buffers
   feedback
   scaling
   better handling of SSO
   clarification of worst case and best case corners
   specification parameters (hysteresis, overshoot, etc.)
   cookbook (may contain validation and corners)
   new overview
   more models ...

 Will proposed we have IBIS Version 3.0 by the end of the year.  Bob would
 like to see a good start by DAC, but would be comfortable with late summer.
 It was suggested that priority voting be done on the reflector.

 BIRD33 (EGG8) - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION
 Olaf Rethmeier referred to the physical description that Kellee Crisafulli 
 had offered.  He said that a European group (JESSI) has defined a physical
 multiboard PCB description sponsored by EC.  He is waiting to make an
 appropriate overview available.  Olaf says it is similar to what Kellee
 has proposed.  It describes a neutral format, is a context free grammar,
 is simple to parse and is human-readable.  It has been under development 
 for two years.  It is not yet a standard.  Olaf will post SULTAN (Standard 
 Universal Layout Information Transport Language) information the reflector.

 BIRD31 - CONNECTOR MODELS
 Bob Ross still plans to issue a revised BIRD31.1 within a few weeks to
 reflect the changes that were discussed at previous meetings and from
 older comments.

 BIRD32  PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT
 C. Kumar is still interested in a more general electrical description 
 including some Spice-like capability.  Stephen Peters is concerned about
 the Ball Grid Array model which includes and extra stub.  

 EGG9 - HANDLING STORED CHARGE
 Bob Ross has sent code to Jon Powell for further investigation and plans
 to issue a BIRD.  BIRD34 was assigned by Will Hobbs.

 VALIDATION
 In the remaining time, Will Hobbs opened a discussion on validation, one
 of the items on the priority list.  He noted that some vendors are reluctant
 to release IBIS models because they are not sure how they should be checked.

 Regarding the disclaimer, Stephen Peters indicates that the typical 
 disclaimer is that the model is used for ".. modeling purposes only, and the
 results are not guaranteed."  This is a fairly typical legal statement.
 He feels that the model provider can only guarantee that the model data
 is correct.  How well it performs in simulation depends on the simulator.

 Duane Quite wants more information on equipment and techniques used to  
 develop models such as the test fixtures and process.  Arpad Muranyi 
 indicates he has a specification on his tool which gives data derivation 
 methodologies.  Duane feels that the level of communication between the 
 model creator and the consumer needs to be increased.  Syed Huq suggests a 
 contact name.  
 
 Hank Herrmann would like some procedure to indicate that the model is
 validated and perhaps how.  The intent is to define the range over which the
 model can be trusted and to increase the comfort level of the customers.

 The [File Rev] in the IBIS specification is not mandatory, but can be used
 to state the level of validation.  Dave Moxley described the NCR test board
 validation process where simulations with Spice and IBIS are correlated.
 Will mentioned the IBIS model can contain a "golden waveform" within it
 for reference.

 Syed Huq described the National process where models are extracted from
 bench measurements and validated using a tool.  A test circuit is simulated,
 and the results are correlated with measurements.

 Bob Ross questioned the verification of some Spice models and wondered what
 process is used to validate them.  Arpad described further his work which
 develops Version 2.1 models for CMOS.  He started his work prior to the
 North Carolina State University work, and therefore it is not based on the
 s2ibis2 utility.  He cannot share the tool itself due to a licensing 
 restriction.

 In closing, Will would like the IBIS forum to develop an application note
 on validation.  Perhaps a technical writer could be hired.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next telephone meeting is set for Friday, March 8, 1996.

 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
	     [email-masked]
	     Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp.
	     2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
 
 VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page:

   http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic 
 archive server, [email-masked].
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================