Subject: IBIS MINUTES 1/12/96

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 96 16:18 PST

DATE:    January 16, 1996
 
 SUBJECT: 1/12/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes
 
 VOTING MEMBERS:
 AT&T Global Info Solutions     Dave Moxley*
 Cadence Design                 Sandeep Khanna, C. Kumar*
 Contec CAE, Ltd.               Dileep Divekar
 Hewlett Packard                Tom Langdorf, Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli*
 IBM                            Jay Diepenbrock
 INCASES                        Werner Rissiek, Olaf Rethmeier*
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
                                Derrick Duehren
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross*
 Meta-Software                  Les Spruiell, Mei Wong, You-Pang Wei, 
                                John Sliney
 Motorola                       Ron Werner
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Atul Agarwal, Cheng-Yang Kao
 NEC                            Hiroshi Matsumoto, Eldar Yazbashevz
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell*, Chris Myles, Chris Rokusek*
 Quantic Labs                   Mike Ventham
 Tanner Research, Inc.          Scott Wedge, Ed Miller, Peter Parrish
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline*, Ben Andresen*, Sri Jandhyala*,
                                Tareq Shahwan
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               Jean LeBrun
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Stephen Lum
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh
 Zuken-Redac                    John Berrie
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS:
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*
 ARPA                           Randy Harr
 Anacad                         Steffen Rochel
 Ansoft                         Henri Maramis
 Atmel Corporation              Dan Terry
 Cadlab                         Ralf Bruning
 CFI                            Ron Christopher, Don Cottrell
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Barry Katz
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 High Design Technology         Michael Smith, Dr. Ing. Cosso
 Integrated Silicon Systems     Eric Bracken
 Intergraph                     Ian Dodd, David Wiens, Walter Katz
 IntuSoft                       Charles Hymowitz
 LSI Logic Corp.                Satish Pratadneni
 Mentor Graphics                Ravender Goyal, Greg Doyle
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez*
 North Carolina State U.        Steve Lipa, Michael Steer
 OptEM Engineering, Inc.        Benny Leveille, Ken Ehn
 Pacific Numerix                Paul K. U. Wang
 Symmetry                       Martin Walker
 Synopsys, Logic Modeling G.    Bill Lattin
 Univ. of Illinois, Urbana      Raj Mittra 
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl, Hiro Moriyasu
 (Independent)                  Bob Ward

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.
 
 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      1/29/96    NONE - IBIS SUMMIT 8 AM - 5 PM, SANTA CLARA, CA
      2/16/96    (916) 356-9200   2-48992          5519538

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------
 
 INTRODUCTIONS
 Ralph Perez joined from MicroSim, replacing the previous representative.
 He is involved with libraries.

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Hewlett-Packard - EEsof Division has officially joined for 1996 and has
 also purchased the IBISCHK2 Source code.  Patti Rusher reported no 
 change in the treasury.

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 Spelling error of Sri Jandhyala's last name was corrected.
 The outstanding action item is to send out membership renewals.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 The IBIS mail reflector on vhdl.org has been down due to some unresolved
 problems.  Bob Ross will use a script to do reflector mailings until
 the problem is resolved.  If you want to mail something, you can still
 send it to the reflector where it will be archived.  Bob will retransmit
 the unsent email.archive messages.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Hyperlynx EM article in Electronic Engineering Times, December 18, 1995,
 pg. 72 mentions IBIS.

 NEW MODELS
 Stephen Peters reported that a new pentpro.pkg model has been submitted.
 Intel also has announced some new chipset models available under NDA.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 ANSI review (already on agenda)
 R_load and R_fixture (not covered)

 EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP
 Patti Rusher will send out EIA/IBIS 1996 membership forms shortly.  Bob
 Ross had reviewed the list.  

 AR - Patti Rusher send out membership invoices for 1996.
 AR - All pay invoice within 45 days.

 The committee will keep existing members for 45 days after the receipt
 of the invoice to give time to go through corporation payment processes.

 ANSI/EIA-656 EDITORIAL REVIEW
 Bob Ross received a review copy of the above standard prior to formal
 publication as an ANSI Standard.  Jon Powell and Will Hobbs reviewed
 the comments and agree with all of the editorial English text corrections.
 Only the global suggestion to separate numbers from the units multipliers
 in ACTUAL examples will be rejected for obvious reasons.  We will suggest
 removing the two "ANNEX" BIRDS since they were relevant only in the
 voting process and not in the final version.  This new version will carry
 the date "December 13, 1995" within reflecting the date of formal approval.
 Bob plans to supply the updated text of Version 2.1 to EIA and also to
 store it on vhdl.org when finished.  This will form the technical portion
 of the complete standard that will be available from EIA.

 DAC STANDARDS BOOTH
 The Design Automation Conference (DAC) in June, 1996 will have a Standards
 booth in a prominant front location.  EIA is invited to participate.  The
 IBIS committee expressed support.  The pro-rated fee of the $5K, 1000 sq. ft.
 booth to the IBIS committee is expected to be only several hundred dollars,
 depending upon whether the committee will have handouts only, or have
 demonstrations of IBIS.  EDIF 4 0 0 is expected to have undergone final
 review and will be demonstrated at DAC.  Patti Rusher reported that
 arrangement details will be decided at February 27, 1996 planning meeting.
 The scope of the IBIS participation will be put on the agenda for the 
 IBIS Face to Face Meeting.

 EIA can take orders for ANSI/EIA-656 and other standards, but may not sell
 anything off the floor.  They can have literature and demos.  

 AR - Will Hobbs put on the Face to Face Agenda the level of IBIS involvement
 at DAC.

 EIA WEB UPDATE
 Syed Huq reported that the Web Page is up!!  He requests feedback since
 there may be some minor problems.  The full address needs to be entered:

   http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

 Otherwise an error will be issued.  The higher level search utility
 does NOT point to this page.  

 The web site links to vhdl.org and to company home pages for those who had
 requested it.  This linkage is done from the IBIS Membership Poster page.
 Response during the meeting indicated that people were very pleased with
 the presentation and layout.  Two final hand-scanned pictures in the
 EDN article have been sent to EIA and need to be included.

 AR - Will Hobbs check with Derrick Duehren regarding EDN article source.

 Texas Instruments still plans to send the logo file to Jon Powell (who
 will then forward it to Syed Huq) and the permission letter to Patti
 Rusher.  TI will not link to its home page at this time.

 FACE TO FACE MEETING
 Syed Huq reported that the meeting will take place at the Westin Hotel
 (attached to the Conference Center where SuperCon96 will be held the
 next day) on January 29, 1996.  Two rooms are reserved for the Summit.
 So far 34 people have signed up from about 20 different companies, and
 more local participation is expected.

 The ANSI/EIA-656 Celebration Dinner will be DUTCH TREAT at 6:00 p.m.
 at the Same Hotel.  The early hour will allow those who need to fly home
 that evening to catch their flights.  The same location eliminates the
 time lost traveling and gathering at another location.  Reservations
 will be made during the morning of the Face to Face meeting for those
 who want to attend.

 Will Hobbs is requesting presentors to supply him with topics and estimated
 time by the end of the day.  Will, Bob Ross, and Syed Huq will start
 drafting the agenda the following week.

 Several people expressed intentions of having presents on BIRD subjects
 and other topics.  Semiconductor Vendor participation will probably
 include at least Texas Instruments on TI IBIS Activities, National
 Semiconductor on model provider experience, and Intel on bus keepers and
 on various modeling considerations.  BIRD/Egg subjects that are being
 considered will probably each have presentations/discussions.  The new
 RAIL (Rules Augmented Interconnect Layout) committee (chaired by Don
 Telian of Intel who also chaired the initial IBIS work leading to Version 
 1.0) has requested 45 minutes to introduce RAIL and also show how it
 relates to IBIS.

 AR - All Potential Presenters inform Will Hobbs by Friday, January 12.
 [Done]

 Presenters should bring several extra copies.  National will collect a
 copy of each presentation and reproduce them for distribution during
 the meeting.  Presentions provided in electronic form can be archived
 in an directory on vhdl.org.  Bob Ross will handle this.

 GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
 Bob Ross reported no activity yet.  A bug fix release is expected early
 this year.  Will Hobbs indicated the need for a PARSER Bug tracking 
 System.  Jon Powell volunteered to take charge since he has the ibischk2
 source code for distribution.

 Kellee Crisafulli discovered, but did not record, some uninitialized
 variables which cause problems when ibischk2 is re-entered.  This would
 be a problem when ibischk2 is re-entered, as occurs when used within
 the Hyperlynx winibis viewing/checking/editing utility.

 AR - Jon Powell send out draft form to Will Hobbs and Bob Ross for
 review. [DONE]

 SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1
 Bob Ross reported no further information.

 EGG8 - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION
 Kellee Crisafulli lead a long discussion on his approach to address
 MCM and SIMM layout repesentation. Stephen Peters supports the approach,
 and Jon Powell would like the see the proposal move forward somehow.

 An alternative approach is to consider EDIF 4 0 0.  Do we need the
 added complexity.  Or do we want something simple, easy, and not too
 powerful?

 This proposal is expected to help interface small PCB layout, SIMM
 and MCM layout information with IBIS electrical characterics.
 Kellee may want to get PCB layout vendors to partipate in the generation
 of the format.  The format itself is intended to be SIMPLE.  Translators
 to internal formats by (say, RSI) could be easily made available for sale.
 Jon Powell indicated that most "models" would usually be autogenerated.
 The format is very readable and understandable.

 This proposal would produce a separate ".pcb" file similar to the .pkg
 file associated with package models.  The format of this file including
 stackup and physical dimensions is quite different from the IBIS format.

 AR - Kellee turn this into BIRD33, issued at the meeting.

 Further discussion involved speculating that RSI could be hired to create
 a writer or file generator for .pcb files and licence it to PC layout
 companies to offer.  Kellee felt that RSI would do this for a few 
 thousand dollars ($5-10K).

 Bob Ross recommends we explore its context and position it as a separate
 effort.  Kellee indicates that it does not have the enough "umph" to 
 to stand by itself, so it should tag along with another standard such as
 IBIS.  Kellee expects to lead more discussion at the Face to Face Meeting.

 EGG9 - HANDLING STORED CHARGE
 Bob Ross has not pursued further some details on this proposal.  This
 is planned to be a topic at the Face to Face Meeting.

 BIRD31 - CONNECTOR MODELS
 Bob Ross reported that the idea of spliting the connector onto each
 board has been abandoned.  He is working on another proposal.  Some
 additional considerations will be presented at the Face to Face 
 Meeting.  Jon Powell raised the concern that grounding (or lack of
 grounding) is a critical difference from package model considerations.
 Hank Herrmann indicated that AMP Spice models have the ground references
 supplied external to the unreference model based on connnections and 
 based on actual signal/reference-voltage pin assignments.

 BIRD32  PACKAGE MODEL ENHANCEMENT
 C. Kumar has sent out BIRD32 which expands on BIRD28.3 to provide both
 a more comprehensive and a more compact electrical package description.
 Even vias could be modeled.  A key enhancement is the naming of matrices,
 so matrices can be called out in many places.  Smaller matrices would be
 extracted anyway through field solver analysis.  

 One concern is the matrix capablility in IBIS 2.1 is not used.  Kellee
 and Jon Powell would like to see IC vendors to comment on whether they
 would put models in that format.  Kumar commented that coupled matrix
 considerations will be a requirement within a year as speed approach
 the 150 MHz and above range. 

 Stephen Peters indicated that the new proposal has merit, but is not
 totally consistent with the proposals to date.  It would be beneficial
 to look at the complete package picture and produce a totally consistent
 extension.  One source it to review the BIRD28.3 proposal integrated
 in the /wip/ver3_0a file of IBIS unofficial drafts.  Bob Ross, Kumar, and
 Stephen can work on this, but cannot commit to finishing this before the
 Face to Face Meeting.

 Bob Ross commented that BIRD32 might be the simplification necessary to
 enable such package models to be created.  Hank Herrmann indicated that
 BIRD32 would help make connector models compact enough to be practical.

 The level of electrical description detail versus physical description
 detail (of Egg8) would be of concern, but the proposals are complimentary.
 This is expected to be discussed at the Face to Face Meeting.

 EGG6 - TTL and CMOS
 Jon Powell is convinced that the differences can be handled within the
 current IBIS Specification, but with a change in test loads to get the
 proper dynamic parameters.  If permitted, he will report on this at the
 Face to Face Meeting.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The Face-to-Face Meeting is on Monday, January 29, 1996 in Santa Clara, CA.
 The next telephone meeting is set for Friday, February 16, 1996.

 ==============================================================================
                                       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
             [email-masked]
             Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp.
             2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
 
 VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
             [email-masked]
             1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
             [email-masked]
             10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223
 
 The following email addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page:

   http://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.htm

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an email request to the automatic 
 archive server, [email-masked].
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================