Subject: IBIS Minutes 6/28/96

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 96 15:48 PDT

DATE: July 2, 1996

 SUBJECT: 6/28/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
 
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick, Russ Moser
 Cadence Design                 C. Kumar
 Contec CAE, Ltd.               Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui, Antonis Orphanou
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli*
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier*, Ralf Bruening
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
				John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
				[Donald Telian], Jim Kruchowski
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross, Chris Reid*
 Meta-Software                  (Sanjay Gangal)
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
 Motorola                       Ahmed Omer
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh,
				Bill Aronson
 NCR (formerly ATT-GIS)         Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek*
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
				Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Celso Faia*
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
				Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie)
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick*
 Altera                         Vadim von Brzeski
 Apteq Design System            Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Mark Leonard
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 IC Works                       Eric Chen
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Oki Semiconductor              Tom Chao
 Philips Semiconductor          Mike Magdaluyo
 Rockwell Collins               Thomas Thurman
 S3, Inc.                       Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong    
 Seimans Nixdorf                Arnaud Lacariere
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tektronix, Inc.                Brock Hannibal
 TRW & Free Model Foundation    Robert Harrison
 Veribest                       Ian Dodd, David Wiens
 VTC, Inc.                      Bob Ward
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principle
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who have joined another organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      7/19/96    (916) 356-9200   2-78903          6186335  
		 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS
 Syed Huq chaired the meeting, and Jon Powell served as secretary.  (These
 minutes are based on Jon's and Will Hobb's notes and other inputs.)

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher did not have updated figures, but estimates the treasury at
 about $6000 to $8000.  The treasurer's report was garbled due to a bug
 in Patti's program.  EIA will issue a new report soon.  AMP's invoice
 situation has been taken care of for now.

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 The spelling Peivand Tehrani's last name has been corrected, and the paper
 is on page 1009 of the conference proceedings.

 The last meetings 9 AM to 1 PM times and Las Vegas, Nevada location have been
 added to the minutes.

 All previous AR's were handled including issuing BIRD36 and BIRD37 and data
 related to multi-staged driver models.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Electronic Design, June 10, 1996, page 64, a HyperLynx introduction references
 IBIS.

 Electrical Engineering Times, June 17, 1996, pg. 86, a Veribest introduction
 references IBIS.

 Electronic News, June 17, 1996, pg. 46, Symmetry Design Systems announces
 IBIS modeling service and future models.

 The 1996 National Interface Databook, Chapter 13 on Modeling Support is
 devoted entirely to IBIS models and provides "An Introduction to IBIS
 Modeling Section" by Syed Huq, and also references many of the participating
 IBIS Committee CAE vendors and their tools.

 VLSI IBIS models are now available on the Web:

     http://www.vlsi.com/vlsi/products/ibis/ibis.html

 The EIA/IBIS web page has been enhanced to add tools selection.

 Quad Design is adding a page with hot links to all free IBIS models available
 throughout industry.

 Patti Rusher reports that the IBIS page is the second most popular EIA page.

 NEW MODELS
 None reported.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Secretary Position
 Series Resistor

 INTERNATIONAL STANDARDIZATION
 Patti Rusher Indicated that there is a project underway to gain money from
 DARPA for modeling programs.  The intention is to use the money to fill holes
 in the standards efforts, such as funding the Express Model.  This is 
 problematic since the University of Manchester can not receive US grant
 money directly.  They would have to be sub-contracted through a US company
 or university.  Some funding options exist and there may be some news in
 several weeks.

 Will Hobbs and Stephen Peters will give a presentation on modeling standards 
 at an international conference in Prague in July, 1996.

 AR - Stephen Peters and Will Hobbs will discuss the money and time for Express
 Representation with Hilary Kahn in Prague at an international standards
 conference.

 Ron Waxman has introduced IBIS as a work item into the IEC process.  So even
 without Express, the international standardization process is underway.

 SECRETARY
 Will Hobbs feels that the lack of a secretary needs resolution.  For now
 we are sharing the duty from meeting to meeting.  No one at the meeting
 indicated an interest in taking the post.  This must be a person from a
 member company since it is an official EIA committee position.

 AR - Syed Huq post a request to [email-masked] requesting volunteers.

 EGG11 - ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM VOLTAGE
 John Fitzpatrick of Alcatel requested a field be added to the model to specify
 the maximum voltage that can be sustained without damage.  Semiconductor 
 suppliers do not generally want to give out this information.  The issue is
 important for PCI interface components and components with split supplies.

 One use for this information would be to have the simulator pop out a warning
 if the maximum voltage limits (voltage versus time) is exceeded.  This could
 be handled on a per-model basis, as an optional parameter or parameters.  It
 might need to be a table.  Jon Powell asked if it was a non-linear table.  
 John indicated that it could be highly non-linear.

 This information could be tabulated like the other IBIS tables.  It could also
 be a single value.  Both positive and negative voltages would be tabulated.

 Kellee Chrisafulli pointed out that it may have to be power supply relative,
 such as one diode over Vcc.

 John plans to accept the comments and convert this into a BIRD.

 Several EDA vendors indicated that they would support issuing a message that
 indicates that the maximum safe levels have been exceeded.

 BIRD36 - ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION
 Stephen Peters issued BIRD36 for an electrical board description.  Hank
 Herrmann provided several comments:
 (1) Add a NC (No Connect) in the pin list for open sided connectors
 (2) Strike the word "mated" (for unmated models)
 (3) Change minimum "rise" time to minimum "edge" time.
 (4) Set a limit on the total number of externally accessible pins.
 (5) Set a 5 character limit for the total number of pins.
 (6) Change the maximum number of characters from 5 to 8 under [Pin List]
 (7) Under [Path Description] the for node, the subparameter could be a .ibs
     model.

 The discussion involved whether IBIS would allow an .ebd file to describe a
 populated SIMM, for example.  There was a long discussion on whether this 
 should be allowed to be embedded within a .ibs file, or visa-versa (making
 the IBIS Specification very complex), or to keep it as a separate file.  The
 consensus was to keep it separate.  The golden parser will still have to check
 .ebd files.

 It would be desirable to allow a .ebd file to contain a reference to another
 .ebd file, to support situations such as SIMMs that plug into SIMMs.  Kellee
 Chrisafulli suggests we roll the BIRD such that the component can be either a
 .ibs or a .ebd file, and solicit further comments.

 Kellee was also concerned about the ambiguity of unit length.  He feels it
 should be explicitly specified to be treated as distributed LRC elements in
 the section where the length is specified.  Stephen will make this change.

 Chris Reid of Interconnectix noted that the pin number section has a potential
 problem with matrix creation when there is a mismatch between pin count and
 path count.  If a 16 pin connector has 32 pins, how do you define the matrix?
 You would want a 16 X 16 matrix, not a 32 X 32 matrix.  A few more examples
 would help.

 The specific changes were:
 (1) Add a keyword for reference designator mapping (ibs/ebd file and
     component).
 (2) Highlight that RLC are distributed.
 (3) Consider Hank's email comments.
 (4) Specify which pins are used in the matrix (or drop the matrix).  The
     matrix issue needs to be reviewed.
 (5) What are the boundaries of the model.  Where does one model end and
     another begin.

 It was suggested that Stephen roll in the suggested changes and issue BIRD36.1
 for a possible vote next meeting.

 BIRD35.1 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS
 Jon Powell described BIRD35.1 as a method for scheduling sequences of output
 buffer characteristics.  The technical discussion was deferred until Bob Ross,
 author of BIRD35.1 can participate at the next meeting.  Jon noted the primary
 problem with this type of output is that there is no way to create a model via
 measurement.  Such buffers are usually implemented with internal delay lines
 to which measurements have no access.  Only the chip manufacturer would have
 access to this information.

 However, the conclusion was that BIRD35.1 is ready for a vote.

 EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
 Chris Rokusek stated that EGG10 checks for reasonable values in IBIS files.
 Chris has extracted all of the parameters out of an IBIS file and found some
 out of range values.  The raw data can be analyzed and discussed at the next
 meeting.  Arpad Muranyi noted that the data format of the files that were sent
 out were inaccessible to him.  (The data was retransmitted in ASCII form.)

 SERIES RESISTOR
 Arpad Muranyi suggested that we add support for series devices such as diodes
 and resistors to IBIS 3.0.  Jon Powell felt this was OK as long as the
 component could be specified as a V/I curve.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, July 19, 1996, 8:00 A.M. to 10:00 A.M.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Vacant

 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
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       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
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       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
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   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic 
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 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================