Subject: IBIS MINUTES 6/7/96

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 96 11:00 PDT

DATE: June 12, 1996

 SUBJECT: 6/7/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
 
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick (phone)*, 
				Russ Moser*
 Cadence Design                 C. Kumar*
 Contec CAE, Ltd.               Dileep Divekar, Norio Matsui, 
				Antonis Orphanou*
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan*, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier, Ralf Bruening*
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
				John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
				Donald Telian, Jim Kruchowski
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross*
 Meta-Software                  (Sanjay Gangal)
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen*
 Motorola                       Ahmed Omer*
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh,
				Bill Aronson*
 NCR (formerly ATT-GIS)         Dave Moxley (phone)*, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek*
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
				Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Celso Faia*
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer*, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
				Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery, D.C. Sessions*
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie)
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Altera                         Vadim von Brzeski
 Apteq Design System            Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Mark Leonard
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 IC Works                       Eric Chen
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Oki Semiconductor              Tom Chao
 Philips Semiconductor          Mike Magdaluyo
 Rockwell Collins               Thomas Thurman
 S3, Inc.                       Sarathy Sribhashyam*, Phap Duong    
 Seimans Nixdorf                Arnaud Lacariere
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes*
 Tektronix, Inc.                Brock Hannibal
 TRW & Free Model Foundation    Robert Harrison
 Veribest                       Ian Dodd*, David Wiens
 VTC, Inc.                      Bob Ward*
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principle
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 
 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      6/28/96    (916) 356-9200   2-78902          4366478 
      7/19/96    (916) 356-9200   2-78903          6186335  
		 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS
 Will Hobbs called the meeting to order and complemented Jon Powell for the
 Buttons and Placards.  The attendees introduced themselves.  New attendees
 for 1996 included D.C. Sessions of VLSI, Bob Ward of VTC, Inc., Russ Moser
 of AMP, Bill Aronson of National Semiconductor, Antonis Orphanou of Contec,
 Andy Hughes of Symmetry, Hoang Nguyen of Mitsubishi, and Ralf Brueing of
 INCASES.  Twenty five people attended from eighteen different organizations.

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher did not have updated figures, but estimates the treasury at
 about $6000 after DAC expenses.  She has requested a formal monthly report.
 Both Veribest and Digital Equipment Corporation are expected to join as soon
 as payment is received on their invoices.  Payment has not been received from
 Quantic and Tanner, so they have been dropped from membership status.

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 No Corrections.  

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 The 1996 Proceedings of the 46th Electronic Components & Technology Conference,
 May 28-31, 1996 contains a paper by Peivand Tehraini, Yuzhe Chen, and Jiayuan
 Fang on "Extraction of Transient Behavioral Model of Digital I/O Buffers from
 IBIS".

 VLSI is considering Web access for their models, but they are currently
 available through direct contact.  Also, ICS, Inc. has IBIS models.

 NEW MODELS
 None reported.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Will Hobbs for International Efforts
 Patti Rusher for DAC97

 INTERNATIONAL STANDARDIZATION
 Will Hobbs summarized the recent international efforts to date.  An Express
 representation is required to move forward.  The experts at the University
 of Manchester estimate an upper limit of 2 months effort to upgrade IBIS
 Version 2.0 to Version 2.1 with documentation suitable for review.  The
 rate for such effort is $6000 per month.  Patti Rusher said that there were
 efforts to obtain this money.
 
 Patti summarized the steps toward international standardization.  Since
 IBIS is a formal ANSI standard it is ready to be forwarded as a new work
 item proposal to IEC once an Express representation is available.  Then it
 will be assigned to a working group and would probably take about 2-1/2
 years to reach adoption because of the time necessary to poll the member
 countries.  A faster model for standardization is being adopted since
 technology life cycles can be much shorter.
 
 Ian Dodd mentioned that David Wiens submitted concerns about IBIS inclusion
 of EDIF 4 0 0.  Patti reported that the comments had been received.

 DAC97 (DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE)
 Patti Rusher reported much interest in IBIS at the Standards booth and will
 forward the names of people requesting information.  The IBIS sign attracted
 attention and the unified appearance promoted unity among standards.  The
 booth was professionally designed as opposed to the ad-hoc appearance of last
 year.  Thank you Patti for a job well done.  Jon Powell would like to see EIA
 IBIS members listed next year, and Patti thought that would fit in well.

 We generally agreed to participate in the Standards Booth in 1997.  Jon 
 mentioned other ideas including a separate static display for IBIS and hot
 Web page links.  Karl Kachigan stated that that was effective at DAC.

 EIA AWARDS
 The following organizations received award placards for outstanding service 
 in promoting IBIS Models and Utilities.
 
 National Semiconductor for providing IBIS models, presented to Syed Huq
 Intel Corporation for providing IBIS models, presented to Arpad Muranyi
 HyperLynx for providing the "winibis" plotting utility (Kellee Chrisafulli)
 North Carolina State University for providing "s2ibis" and "s2iplt" utilities
    (Steve Lipa, Alan Glaser, Michael Steer, Paul Franzon)
 
 Also, Will Hobbs received a placard for outstanding service as chair of the
 EIA/IBIS Committee.

 ELECTIONS OF OFFICERS FOR 1996/1997
 Will Hobbs indicated that he will be on sabbatical for several months and
 and declined to serve as chair for next year.  He summarized the duties
 of all positions and asked for nominations.

 The following new officers were nominated and elected:

 Chair:  Bob Ross, Interconnectix, Inc.
 Vice-Chair: Syed Huq, National Semiconductor
 Secretary: None
 Librarian: Jon Powell, Quad Design

 Bob indicated that we are searching for a Secretary, but some of the duties
 can be divided among the officers.  Syed will continue his fine work managing
 and upgrading the EIA IBIS Web site, and Jon indicated that he plans to expand
 the Librarian role to provide links to other IBIS model locations.

 BIRD36 - BOARD LEVEL COMPONENT DESCRIPTION (To Be Submitted)
 Will Hobbs started the discussion by stating the Stephen Peters held an
 on site Package Committee meeting on 6/6/96 with Jon Powell, Hank Herrmann,
 C. Kumar, Ian Dodd, and Bob Ross.  Stephen had to return home, but the
 meeting continued.  The subsequent discussion changed the direction of
 BIRD36 back to a prior position.

 Bob Ross started the technical discussion by presenting an overview:

 1.  Currently IBIS deals with electrical component descriptions to be used
 with physical board descriptions (PBD).  Typically a number of vendor specific 
 formats are used for PBDs, but EDIF 4 0 0 also provides a standardized format.
 Most EDA tools provide electrical processing of PBDs and IBIS models.  The
 .ibs file contains package information which can exist within the .ibs file
 or can exist in a separate .pkg file for Version 2.1 matrices and BIRD28.3
 extensions.  Even with extensions, the package description is for a single
 pin only.

 2.  There are two overlapping proposals regarding extensions.  The first is
 BIRD36 covering the other extreme - an electrical board description (EBD).
 It deals with PATHS which can connect multiple pins and internal nodes.  These
 internal nodes can reference IBIS model pins.  The EBD is intended to provide
 electrical characteristics of SIMMs, MCMs, and also electrical stubs where the
 physical board has not been designed.  At the lowest level, the EBD can be
 used for connector, cable and socket models because they are usually direct
 two-pin paths.

 The second is BIRD31.3, the Mated Models proposal which extends BIRD28.3 to
 cover direct, two-pin paths only.   It would not require the addition of
 PATH syntax, but would be limited in its scope.  Because of some advanced
 connector designs, Hank Herrmann favors the BIRD36 approach to avoid having
 two methods to provide the same information.  

 So the Package Committee proposal is to focus on BIRD36 and have it include
 mated models.

 3. Both the .pkg file and the EBD (.ebd) handle discrete LRC components,
 distributed LRC components, MATRIX functionality (including coupling), and
 sections.  The EBD also adds PATHS, PINS, NODES, FORKS, Tedge_rate and Cpad. 
 Stephen Peters has indicated that he would like FORKS added to the .pkg
 file.  The EBD would reside in a separate file.  However, it could contain
 IBIS components within, or it could reference IBIS components in .ibs files
 in the same directory.  (Simulator companies could extend this to include
 search paths to other directories.)   So it is possible that a .ebd file
 references a component in a .ibs file which references a package description
 in a .pkg file.   The details and BIRD36 syntax need to be worked out.  Even
 internal paths between components are permitted within EBDs.

 4.  EBDs can connect to other EBDs and to PBDs.  It is permitted to have
 PBDs connected by connector EBDs.  Or connector EBDs can connect other EBDs
 EBDs and PBDs.  Or EBDs can contain within it the connector or socket EBD.
 Currently, the PentiumPro IBIS model has a package description that includes
 its always present socket.  However, this device could also be attached
 through an EBD socket.  The boundaries of all physical connections extend
 to the physical surfaces of the devices.

 5.  There is still a need to investigate all of the possible connection
 scenarios to be sure that all the cases are covered.  There are limits to
 how well the EBD will characterize MCMs and complicated boards since its
 individual coupled matrix capability is limited.  In such cases, the PCB
 approach should be used.  The EBD is not intended for large boards.

 In the discussion that followed, Hank Herrmann mentioned the need to support
 unloaded sockets, such as an unpopulated SIMM socket.  Hank also stressed
 that Tedge_rate be defined in BIRD36 similar to BIRD31.3 to set the accuracy
 range.  Distributed models need to be used, if specified, so that the 
 structurally smallest Tedge_rate limit can be applied without numerical
 degradation.  The 20-80% definition should be used.  C. Kumar added that
 Tedge_rate can be used for optimal model selection.

 AR - Stephen Peters (and Bob Ross) submit BIRD36.1 with changes reflecting
 the Package Committee agreement and ensuring that the BIRD31.3 functionality 
 is fully included.

 AR - Stephen Peters submit an upgrade to approved BIRD28.3 to include forks
 and endforks.

 The other Package Birds were discussed briefly.

 BIRD31.3 - Mated Models is expected to be dropped pending the outcome of
 BIRD36.1.

 BIRD32 - Additional Enhancement to the Package Model contains some technical 
 complexities which are currently being shelved.

 BIRD33 - Physical representation was voted NO.  The IBIS committee had already
 agreed upon a position recommended by the Package Committee that EDIF 4 0 0 
 should be supported as the physical description format.

 PRIORITIES AND WISHES FOR VERSION 3.0
 Will Hobbs used some available time for discussion of this topic with respect
 to the proposed Version 3.0 release by the end of the year.  Arpad Muranyi
 asked what was needed for Version 3.0.  The discussion included model selection
 (BIRD 30.2 - approved), package extensions (BIRD28.3+), electrical board
 descriptions (BIRD36), multi-staged switching (pending BIRD35), stored charge
 effects (pending BIRD 34.1), and possibly feedback, scaling, and thresholds.

 Feedback can be voltage or time based.  It could be time or voltage related.
 However, the mechanisms tend to be proprietary, making formulating a proposal
 difficult.  There was some discussion on whether some scaling mechanism coupled
 with voltage or resistor sensing could provide static or controlled feedback.

 Threshold extensions including overshoot limits could be added via the BIRD
 process.

 Bus-hold effects were also mentioned.  At the January IBIS summit we learned
 that these effects produced almost insignificant corrections in the 100 uA
 range.  If they are time based, they might be included in BIRD35 Multi-staged
 extensions.

 VALIDATION DISCUSSION
 Russ Moser presented a position that by corporate policy AMP and other
 companies must give the best models possible.  This forces internal validation
 policies.  It is difficulty to validate "IBIS" connector models without
 internal IBIS processing tools.  He speculated that other companies might be
 reluctant to release models that have not been validated.

 BIRD35 - MULTI-STAGED OUTPUTS
 Bob Ross briefly discussed this proposal for providing within a single 
 model the ability to have multiple V/I and V/T tables.  All the V/T tables
 would have the same reference time.  This proposal reflects actual device
 architecture, although creating actual tables might be difficult because
 of interactions.  Arpad Muranyi questioned whether the existing V/T method
 was adequate.  Jon Powell will provide specific examples where multi-
 staged models are necessary to give the correct answer.  One example has the
 switching outputs drawn from one voltage reference, and the stable DC level
 from another voltage reference.  C. Kumar argued that it is possible to link
 existing models together to create effective multi-staged switching through
 scripts.  However, D.C. Sessions and Dick Ulmer preferred that all of the
 switching mechanisms be contained within a single model.

 AR - Jon Powell submit examples of simulation behaviors that require
 multi-staged models [Done].

 BIRD34.1 - STORED CHARGE EFFECTS
 Bob Ross summarized the Spice program differences sent out.  Both programs
 cover identical cases, but one program uses a transmission line model similar
 to actual situations where glitches are produced, while the other represents
 a 50 ohm source and load test circuit which would be easier to extract the
 data.  The first circuit shows nearly exact agreement, while the second
 circuit has more error when clamp tables are used due to some numerical
 artifacts related to derivative sensitivity.

 Effective TT parameters are proposed for [Gnd Clamp] and [Power Clamp]
 tables, and BIRD34.1 shows mathematical relationships to the non-linear
 capacitance.

 Jon Powell had shown earlier that a TT and a voltage variable capacitance
 produced the same effects.  D.C. Sessions and others argued that perhaps a
 Capacitance vs. Voltage table would be preferred to supplement or replace
 C_comp.

 EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
 Chris Rokusek stated that he still plans to provide some numerical values for
 the proposed warning limits for ibischk2.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, June 28, 1996 8:00 A.M. to 10:00 A.M.  Syed
 Huq will Chair the meeting since Bob Ross will be out.

 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Product Marketing Manager, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Vacant

 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic 
 archive server, [email-masked].
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================

---

From: Arpad Muranyi <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 96 08:35:00 PDT

Text item: 

Please take Donald Telian's name off from the list under Intel Corporation.  He 
is no longer working with Intel.

Thanks,

Arpad
================================================================================

 DATE: June 12, 1996

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 No Corrections.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 The 1996 Proceedings of the 46th Electronic Components & Technology
Conference,
 May 28-31, 1996 contains a paper by Peivand Tehraini, Yuzhe Chen, and Jiayuan
 Fang on "Extraction of Transient Behavioral Model of Digital I/O Buffers from
 IBIS".

 NEW MODELS
 None reported.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES

 EIA AWARDS

 with physical board descriptions (PBD).  Typically a number of vendor
specific

 asked what was needed for Version 3.0.  The discussion included model
selection

 Feedback can be voltage or time based.  It could be time or voltage related.
 However, the mechanisms tend to be proprietary, making formulating a proposal
 difficult.  There was some discussion on whether some scaling mechanism
coupled
 with voltage or resistor sensing could provide static or controlled feedback.

 VALIDATION DISCUSSION

 NEXT MEETING:

 SECRETARY:  Vacant

   [email-masked]

   [email-masked]

   [email-masked]

   [email-masked]

   [email-masked]

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest"
login from
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic
 archive server, [email-masked].

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Subject: IBIS MINUTES 6/7/96
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