Subject: IBIS Minutes 5/17/96

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Tue, 21 May 96 14:33 PDT

DATE: May 21, 1996

 SUBJECT: 5/17/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
 
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*, Tim Minnick*
 Cadence Design                 C. Kumar*
 Contec CAE, Ltd.               Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli*
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
				John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet,
				Donald Telian, Jim Kruchowski
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross*
 Meta-Software                  (Les Spruiell)
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao
 Motorola                       Ahmed Omer*
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh
 NCR (formerly ATT-GIS)         Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell*, Chris Rokusek*
 Quantic Labs                   (Mike Ventham)
 Tanner Research, Inc.          (Scott Wedge)
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
				Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Celso Faia
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh, Swami Gangadharan,
				Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie)
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Altera                         Vadim von Brzeski
 Apteq Design System            Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Mark Leonard
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 IC Works                       Eric Chen
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Oki Semiconductor              Tom Chao
 Philips Semiconductor          Mike Magdaluyo*
 Rockwell Collins               Thomas Thurman
 S3, Inc.                       Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong    
 Seimans Nixdorf                Arnaud Lacariere
 Tektronix, Inc.                Brock Hannibal
 TRW & Free Model Foundation    Robert Harrison
 Veribest/Integraph             Ian Dodd, David Wiens
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principle
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 
 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      6/7/96     (916) 356-9200   1-77607          8892397  
		 Las Vegas, NV., 9:00 A.M. to 1:00 P.M. 
		 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS
 Tim Minnick is working with Hank Herrmann at AMP on producing IBIS Connector
 Models.

 Mike Magdaluyo of Philips Semiconductor's Logic Products Group has been
 involved with Philips Spice Models and is researching IBIS models with the
 expectation of producing them in the future.

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Bob Ross reported no treasury change.  Bob is still researching with Patti
 Rusher membership payments.  The account is $9,988.59 minus some DAC expenses
 for the meeting and awards.

 Jeff Chu needs to follow up with EIA concerning Digital Equipment membership
 payment.

 Bob will contact Jon Powell concerning who are official members for a possible
 IBIS member company poster update.

 A polling of companies indicated that NCR, Intel, and Contec have paid their
 membership even though the EIA records may not indicate payment.

 AR - Bob Ross continue working with Patti Rusher regarding membership payment
 issues.

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 No Corrections.  Bob Ross review all ARs.  Except for publishing the EDIF
 letter ballot comment, all ARs have been completed or handled by alternative
 action.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Sigrity reports support of IBIS models on page 120 in the April 29, 1996 issue
 of Electronic Engineering Times.

 NEW MODELS
 The Intel Web site  http://www.intel.com has additional IBIS models available
 from the Chandler, Arizona division.  They can be accessed with SEARCH (small
 letters at the top of the home page) on IBIS.  They consist of some flash
 memory and i960 components.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Will Hobbs for Ramp discussion (not discussed)
 Bob Ross for BIRD35 (not discussed)

 DAC STANDARDS BOOTH
 Jon Powell reported that Patti Rusher is handling the IBIS visuals for the
 EIA booth at DAC.  Bob Ross has supplied the IBIS bullet items to be used
 with the display.

 Jon Powell will generate additional IBIS Spoken Here signs and will distribute
 them at DAC on the floor.  See Jon at the Quad Design booth if you need signs.
 They will have stands (as opposed to Velcro backing).

 Jon Powell also generated 50 "I Like IBIS" buttons and sent one to Bob Ross
 and Will Hobbs.  They will also be available at DAC.

 DAC (DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE) MEETING ARRANGEMENTS AND AGENDA
 The Standards Roadmap Birds of the Feather Meeting by Ron Werner of Motorola
 on Thursday, June 6, 1996 between 6 PM and 8 PM may provide an opportunity
 to comment on the Roadmap.  We decided not to do our own BOF session because
 IBIS is now quite well-known.

 EIA/IBIS MEETING
 Will Hobbs indicated that the EIA/IBIS Face to Face meeting will be at the
 Las Vegas Hilton Hotel between 9 AM and 1 PM.  Arrive early for refreshments.
 Election of new officers (nominations on the floor), awards, and other 
 administrative issues will be handled.  Unlike other DAC meetings, some 
 technical issues will also be discussed.

 Several people wanted unity and closure of the package/mated-model issue as
 the primary technical issue.

 AR - Stephen Peters on behalf of the Package Committee prepare a presentation
 and provide a recommended format.
 
 To ensure that representatives who have major interests in this issue can 
 participate, even though they may not be able to attend DAC, a phone bridge
 will be established.

 AR - Bob Ross get phone bridge number to publish in Agenda, and contact
 Patti Rusher to get a speaker phone in the meeting room

 Bob Ross polled and estimate that about 10 people who were at this meeting
 will be at DAC.

 AR - Anyone, contact Will Hobbs if you are attending the EIA/IBIS Summit.

 GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
 Thanks to Chris Rokusek for providing the parser executables.  Bob Ross
 checked out the fixes, and the executables are now on vhdl.org under
 /pub/ibis/ibischk2.

 Kellee Crisafulli stated that winibis will be upgraded with the new parser.
 He also reported that the parser issues an ERROR if there are too many pins,
 as in the Motorola Power PC 620.  Bob Ross will investigate.  

 (After the meeting, Bob checked this and found that a the error occurs when
 a Version 1.1 IBIS file is tested.  This error does not occur for Version 2.1
 IBIS files.  So this is a limitation in the original ibis_chk program which
 is embedded within ibischk2.  One solution is to change the [IBIS Ver] to 2.1,
 even for 1.1 files.  This will also give addtional tests.)

 SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1
 Bob Ross reported that Alan Glaser is spending several weeks a s2ibis2.1
 upgrade.  

 Bob reported another crash with respect to table generation for ECL devices
 based on wrong ranges, and then a segment fault when these Spice outputs
 are used to generate the IBIS file due to memory overrun errors.  (Based on
 a discussion after the meeting, Alan is still working on problems and
 interface upgrades.  He may take several more weeks.  He requests input from
 anyone on problems and improvements.)

 AR - Bob Ross continue to work with Alan Glaser concerning the s2ibis2.1
 upgrade.

 EXPRESS INFORMATION MODEL ACTIONS
 Since last meeting, Olaf Rethmeier reported on an existing Express Model for
 IBIS 2.0 done in June 1994.  Since IBIS has had minimal technical changes
 from that point to ANSI/EIA-656 (IBIS Version 2.1), this format is still 
 very close to the current version.  Bob Ross has discovered only a few minor
 errors such as specifying integers for revision numbers.  Bob has committed
 to providing a technical review and upgrade resulting in a good starting
 point for an Express representation for IBIS Version 2.1.

 Kellee Crisafulli raised some questions on whether there was a reader or
 way of testing the Express representation.  We did not know the answer.

 IBIS COMMENTS ON EDIF 3 9 9
 The AR for David Wiens to provide formal comment on behalf of the IBIS
 Committee on EDIF 3 9 9 and publish them on the IBIS reflector still needs
 to be done.  

 AR - Stephen Peters work with David Wiens on the comment and publish it on
 the IBIS reflector as soon a possible.  

 The primary issues are to add within EDIF a reference to IBIS components and
 to be able to store and retrieve passive (R, L, C) component electrical values.  
 Bob Ross will also provide an Interconnectix comment for these concerns.  Bob 
 will work with Kellee Crisafulli to get a better understanding of this issue
 before formulating a response.

 EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
 Chris Rokusek covered the contents of EGG10 proposed a while ago.  A set of
 ibischk2 tests are proposed to check the validity of model data and to issue
 warning messages for questionable contents.

   (1) Polarity test.  Bob Ross indicated that ibischk2 already has a good
       polarity test, so this may already be covered.

   (2) Checking Waveform table endpoints.  This looks like a good test.  Bob
       indicated that the test should included the contributions of the clamp
       tables since it is possible that there may be internal "pullup resistors"
       or "pulldown resistors".  Warnings should not be issued for correct IBIS
       data.
 
   (3) Warning for large diode currents.  Excessively large currents around
       1 V to 1.5 V in the order of amps are too large and may indicate a units
       problem.  Chris will examine all of the IBIS files to see if there is a
       reasonable large test current at, say, 1 V or 1.5 V in the order of 1 A
       100 A which could be used to trigger a warning message. 

   (4) Abrupt slopes.  The intent is to trap discontinuities and also to issue
       warnings if there are abrupt changes such as with a 3-point diode model.
       The test would be based on a second derivative limit.  Kellee Crisafulli.
       indicated that this would not be a problem for some simulators.  Also,
       some noisy models obtained from measurement may have noise.  So there are
       still open issues on this test.

   (5) Stephen Peters added a component value reality test for C, L, and R
       components and also for the dV/dt values.  Arpad Muranyi suggested that
       identical dt's would indicate that the incorrect "reduced" ramp rate
       ratio was used.  Bob Ross wanted the test to be based on actual values,
       and not on just the units since ibischk2 already does polarity testing
       based on actual values.  Some possible upper limits might be C = 1 uF
       L = 1 mH, and R, no limit.  However, testing for an R value greater than
       1 M may reveal a units problem when milliohms was intended.  Stephen
       expected that the terminator keyword R/C components would not be tested.

 Bob added that this set of tests might be part of the model validation process
 that we have been discussing.

 BIRD31.3 - MATED MODELS
 Bob Ross discussed only the latest change making the Tedge_rate parameter
 optional based on the fact that the Tedge_rate = 0 discussion was functionally
 the same thing.  Stephen Peters proposed using "0" to indicate DC usage 
 guarantee only, rather than very small rise time.  Hank Herrmann would still
 like to make this parameter a required parameter.  The discussion then was
 about whether one section was to be assumed a discrete L/C section or could
 be a transmission line segment.  Stephen Peters said that BIRD28.3 presumes
 that if Len = 0, it is for a discrete section, and a non-zero length creates
 a distributed element.  C. Kumar and others representation simulator companies
 preferred the distributed representation basis since those simulators which
 use discrete elements can estimate the number of sections based on actual
 edge_rate requirement.  One suggestion was to use Z0 and delay for clarity
 for distributed sections.  This discussion was tabled to move on to the
 related package discussion.

 PACKAGE COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
 Stephen Peters reported that the package committee had three fundamental 
 approaches to electrical representation: a segment approach from Jon Powell,
 a Spice like nodal approach from C. Kumar, and a BIRD28.3 extension from
 Stephen Peters.  The committee decided not to deal with the submatrix issue
 because it opened up some issues regarding reference planes and format 
 preferences that needed more time to resolve.  The main focus from Steven
 will be to examine extensions for nodes, forks, etc., and to possibly to 
 come up with a format that includes mated models.  As already indicated,
 Stephen plans to have a proposal for discussion at the DAC meeting.

 BIRD34.1 - HANDLING STORED CHARGE
 Not discussed. 

 NEW ITEMS
 Not discussed.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is at DAC, Friday, June 7, 1996 9:00 A.M. to 1:00 P.M.,
 at the Las Vegas Hilton adjacent to the Las Vegas Convention Center.

 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
	     [email-masked]
	     Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp.
	     2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
 
 VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic 
 archive server, [email-masked].
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================