Subject: IBIS MINUTES 4/19/96

From: [email-masked] ( Bob Ross)
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 96 13:13 PDT

DATE: April 23, 1996

 SUBJECT: 4/19/96 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
 
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1996 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Hank Herrmann*
 Cadence Design                 C. Kumar*
 Contec CAE, Ltd.               Dileep Divekar*, Norio Matsui
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier*
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Will Hobbs*, Arpad Muranyi*,
				John Keifer, Aaron Tang, Duane Quiet*,
				Donald Telian, Jim Kruchowski
 Interconnectix, Inc.           Bob Ross*
 Meta-Software                  (Les Spruiell)
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao
 Motorola                       Ahmed Omer*
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Donald Snyder, Chune-Sin Yeh
 NCR (formerly ATT-GIS)         Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto),
 Quad Design                    Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*
 Quantic Labs                   (Mike Ventham)
 Tanner Research, Inc.          (Scott Wedge)
 Texas Instruments              Roger Cline, Ben Andresen, Sri Jandhyala,
				Tareq Shahwan, Dan Phipps
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 UniCAD Canada Ltd.             Celso Faia
 VLSI Technology                Dick Ulmer, Sung Oh*, Swami Gangadharan,
				Daniel Kim, Tom Dockery
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie)
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1996:
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Altera                         Vadim von Brzeski
 Apteq Design System            Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Mark Leonard*
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 IC Works                       Eric Chen
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                       
 MicroSim                       Ralph Perez
 Molex                          Gus Panella*
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Oki Semiconductor              Tom Chao
 Rockwell Collins               Thomas Thurman
 S3, Inc.                       Sarathy Sribhashyam, Phap Duong    
 Seimans Nixdorf                Arnaud Lacariere
 Tektronix, Inc.                Brock Hannibal
 TRW & Free Model Foundation    Robert Harrison
 Veribest/Integraph             Ian Dodd, David Wiens
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principle
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 
 Upcoming Meetings: The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as 
 follows:

      Date       Bridge Number    Reservation #    Passcode  
      5/10/96    (916) 356-9200   2-66109          4323275
 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each open forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.
 
 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS
 Gus Panella of Molex joined because of recent IBIS interest.  Gus has been
 involved for many years with electromagnetic extraction of connector model
 information.

 EIA MEMBERSHIP AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher received membership requests from Jeff Chu of Digital Equipment
 and Ian Dodd of Veribest. 

 Patti Rusher estimated the treasury at $6000, with $2500 pending for DAC
 participation.  (After the meeting, Patti updated the actual number to be
 $12,488.59.  DAC booth participation expense reduces this to $9,988.59.)

 MINUTES REPORT, MISC.
 No Corrections.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Patti Rusher has written a correction letter to EDN indicating that IBIS
 has been formally ratified by EIA and ANSI.

 NEW MODELS
 Bob Ross reports that VLSI has submitted information to Michael Steer, 
 although it has not yet been posted on vhdl.org.  

 AR - Bob Ross investigate posting of VLSI information.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 None.

 EIA/IBIS 1996 MEMBERSHIP
 Patti Rusher indicates about 5 or 6 outstanding invoices, although she has
 to verify with accounting the most recent status.

 AR - Bob Ross continue working with Patti Rusher to monitor the payment
 for official EIA/IBIS Committee Membership.

 DAC STANDARDS BOOTH
 Patti Rusher is coordinating the booth with Jon Powell.  It will have a
 back-lit logo and poster.  We still should send the 8-1/2" by 11" posters 
 with Velcro backing to Jon.  You can also take them to DAC if you will be at
 DAC the first day.  Pat Manley, a graphics artist at the advertising agency 
 doing the other EIA work will create an electronic combination of logos.
 Send electronic version of logos to
 
     [email-masked]
 
 Patti received the IBIS bullet items information from Bob Ross for the 
 poster.

 Since this is coordinated with Jon Powell, Patti and Jon need to work out
 the exact process for the posters and communicate it to the reflector.  (Also
 pending are the "I Speak IBIS" badges.)

 ANSI/EIA-656 PUBLICATION
 Patti Rusher reports that the published version of ANSI/EIA-656 has been
 sent to member companies.  Several members have reported getting a copy.

 AR - EIA/IBIS Members: if you have not received your copy, notify Patti.

 DAC (DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE) MEETING ARRANGEMENTS AND AGENDA
 Patti Rusher reports that Ron Werner is planning a Standards Roadmap
 Birds of the Feather meeting on Thursday, June 6, 1996 between 6 PM and
 8 PM.  We will participate in this rather than doing our own BOF session
 because IBIS is now quite well-known.

 We will hold the DAC IBIS Meeting on Friday morning, June 7, 1996, and 
 allowing time for people to return that afternoon.  Past DAC meetings have
 been focused on ratification and administrative issues versus technical issues.
 However, since we have only a few administrative issues and some pending
 technical development, we probably will have some technical discussions.

 We are seeking company sponsors for the meeting which usually involves
 booking a room and providing some refreshments.  Chris Rokusek of Quad 
 Design, Will Hobbs of Intel, and C. Kumar of Cadence all check on sponsoring 
 the Face-to-Face meeting.  We estimate about 25 participants.  A fallback 
 plan is to use IBIS funds.

 AR - Chris Rokusek, Will Hobbs, and C. Kumar obtain closure by April 26
 regarding hosting the meeting.

 MODEL REWARD PROGRAM
 Syed Huq reintroduced the program to reward companies which provide free,
 public IBIS models.  We decided to issue certificates of appreciation to
 be presented at the IBIS meeting to the companies which provide such models 
 along with acknowledgment in a press release.  This certificate would be
 signed by EIA officers and Will Hobbs.  Several organizations providing free
 models and free utilities were mentioned.

 Patti Rusher, Syed Huq, and Bob Ross will work off line to identify the 
 recipients.

 Many IBIS models are also available through direct contact with companies.
 Bob Ross is interested in identifying these contacts and publicizing them.
 
 AR - Bob Ross post a request for anyone to submit possible contact people
 who have IBIS models for distribution.  Appropriate contacts for getting
 IBIS models will be published on vhdl.org.

 EIA WEB UPDATE
 No change.  Over 860 people have hit the page.

 GOLDEN PARSER UPDATE
 The Parser has been sent out.  Patti Rusher has paid the submitted bill.

 AR - Bob Ross will check out the new parser.  
 
 AR - Jon Powell create new executable and work with Bob to update the
 information on vhdl.org.

 SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 1.3
 Bob Ross has put the new version on vhdl.org.

 SPICE TO IBIS VERSION 2.1
 Michael Steer reported privately that he will plan an upgrade.

 AR - Bob Ross work with Michael Steer concerning the s2ibis2.1 upgrade.

 EXPRESS ACTION ITEMS
 Patti Rusher reports that ANSI/EIA-656 has been put forth for international
 standardization under TC-93.  An Express representation is required.  The
 pending EDIF 4 0 0 has an Express representation as does several other EDA
 standards.  Anyone within the IBIS community may propose doing an Express
 representation.  We are also seeking a proposal from Hilary Kahn from the
 University of Manchester, UK, an Express expert who is familiar with IBIS.
 DARPA funding may also be available for such a project.

 AR - Patti Rusher request a proposal from Hilary Kahn and also copy Randy
 Harr to inquire about the possibility of DARPA funding. [Done]

 IBIS COMMENTS ON EDIF 3 9 9
 Stephen Peters discussed the comments by David Wiens.  Several vendors are
 seriously considering interfacing to EDIF 4 0 0.  The main concerns are
 to have EDIF syntax to reference IBIS models and to reduce the redundant
 ways to reference passive R, L, C components.  The comments will be adopted
 as an IBIS committee position.  Patti Rusher wants the comments as early as 
 possible so that the EDIF technical group can move forward on them within the
 introduction schedule.  Patti also indicates that Hilary Kahn has a sample 
 PCB description that may be posted on the reflector.

 AR - Stephen Peters work with David Wiens to finalize the response and
 copy Patti Rusher and post the official comment on the Reflector.

 BIRD31.1 - MATED MODELS
 Bob Ross recapped the key points of BIRD31.1.  The mated model will be in
 a separate .mmf file and not in a .ibs file.  BIRD31.1 will track any
 approved package model development beyond BIRD28.3.  BIRD31.1 is a two-terminal
 syntax for similar capability.  One addition is optional a pad capacitance.
 Some reflector comments by Hank Herrman and David Fogel were noted.

 The first point concerns Hank's proposal to add an edge rate parameter
 to the mated model.  His main point is that, unlike a package model which
 is assumed to be associated with a particular die and therefore constructed 
 with correspondingly adequate detail, there is no way to determine the
 intended performance limit of a mated model.  If the edge rate is too fast,
 the model may simulate too much ringing.
 
 Bob Ross argued against the additions by stating these points:  (1) There
 already exists a required [Description] parameter where such information could
 be presented in a manner similar to comment lines in Spice programs.  (2) In
 any case, simulators would not be able to do anything about non-compliance.
 (3) There is no parallel counterpart for package models.  (4) It is unclear
 which limit to use - the largest time for which one "stage" would give
 adequate limits, or the smallest time for which an infinitely distributed
 stage would gives an accurate structure.  Hank clarified that this would be 
 a model structure limit - the smallest time would apply before a more 
 complicated model would be appropriate.
 
 After some more discussion and support by Gus Panella and Stephen Peters,
 Bob agreed to add an edge rate specification subparameter. 
 
 The second point relates to defining the mated model physical limits.  With
 an edge card connector the circuit board fingers which could also have their
 own ground plane extendions into the connector.  The consensus was that
 the mated model would end at the surface of the mated-model.  The mated model
 contains the optional C_pad1 and C_pad2 to provide an estimate of adjoining
 PCB pad capacitances that are typically not within the mated model.  Because
 of historical evolution from the simplest L_pkg, R_pkg, C_pkg structures to
 the more complicated coupled matrix models, the package model already provides
 for such pad capacitances.
 
 Stephen questioned whether the mated model should apply for sockets.  IBIS
 models for the Pentium Pro includes the socket within the package model.
 When the socket is modeled as a mated model, the package parameters of the
 device to be inserted into the socket may contain inappropriate, excessive
 information.  However, independent socket models are still needed.  So we
 agreed to continue including sockets within the mated model syntax.
 
 Bob Ross will issue BIRD31.2 adding the edge rate limit parameter and 
 clarifying the mated model boundaries.

 BIRD33 (EGG8) - PHYSICAL PACKAGE DISCUSSION
 Stephen Peters reported that the package committee endorsed the EDIF 4 0 0 
 approach for physical representation.  Future discussion will be on electrical
 representations.  Two possibilities include a Spice-like approach by C. Kumar
 and a sement approach by Jon Powell.  While syntactically different, these
 approaches have similarities with respect to transmission line and nodal
 structures.  They both can handle general topologies which include forks and 
 possibly closed loops.  Stephen indicated that handling ball grid array
 packages with stub elements is a real necessity.  He also has a proposal which
 extends the existing BIRD28.3 structure to include forks and nodes.  
 
 The next meeting will be on Thursday, May 2, 1996.

 BIRD34.1 (EGG9) - HANDLING STORED CHARGE
 Bob Ross plans to send an HSPICE example which illustrates the BIRD34.1
 proposal.  Simulations of the equations in the proposal match the Spice diode
 model simulations.  C. Kumar advised Bob of a recent March, 1996 paper in the
 IEEE Circuits and Systems Transactions on diode modeling including stored
 charge effects.

 EGG10 - PARSER ADDITIONS FOR NUMERICAL CHECKING
 Chris Rokusek mentioned the two key items:  A check is needed to assure that
 the [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] voltage ranges for given fixture
 provide ranges consistent with the V/I tables.  Also, Stephen Peters proposes
 a units check for realistic values - a common trap.  Bob Ross pointed out that
 this test needs to be based on actual values since the parser already process
 the numerical information.

 More time will be available at the next meeting for discussion.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next telephone meeting is set for Friday, May 10, 1996.

 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Will Hobbs (503) 264-4369, Fax (503) 264-4210
	     [email-masked]
	     Server Chipset System Validation Manager, Intel Corp.
	     2111 NE 28th M/S JF1-57, Hillsboro, OR 97124 USA
 
 VICE CHAIR: Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Transmission-Line Products Manager, Quad Design
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
 SECRETARY:  Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix, Inc.
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via ftp anonymous, "guest" login from 
 telnet or dial-in (415-335-0110), or send an e-mail request to the automatic 
 archive server, [email-masked].
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================