Subject: IBIS teleconference Minutes, 11/7

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:11:41 -0800

SUBJECT: 11/7/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
  
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Jeff Walden
 Applied Simulation Technology  [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*,
                                Fred Balistreri
 Cadence Design & UniCAD        C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 High Design Technology         (Razvan Ene)
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
				Will Hobbs, Frank Kern
 Interconnectix                 Bob Ross*, Neven Orhanovic*
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
 Motorola                       [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
                                Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
				Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
 NCR                            Dave Moxley*, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Peivand Tehrani
                                Graham Bell
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens
 VLSI Technology                Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
 3M                             [Fran Hart]
 Actel                          Scott Schlachter
 Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
 Dell Computer                  Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 EMC                            Fabrizio Zanella
 Hewlett Packard, Boise         Paul Gregory
 Hewlett Packard, France        Jean-Christophe Pautrat
 Hitachi                        Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa 
 IBM                            Brad Herrman
 Interface Technology           Dan Waterloo
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                      
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen*
 S3, Inc.                       Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tandem                         Mark Simpson
 TRW                            Ray Steele
 Ultratest International        Charles Im
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl 

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
   
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   12/5/97            (916) 356-9200    3-159556         6788873
 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 Todd Andersen of Philips Semiconductor has been developing IBIS models
 for clock drivers, BiCMOS and other devices.  Philips uses an internal 
 translation program adapted from NCSU s2ibis and a process for converting
 directly from IBIS netlists using an internal product PSTAR.  Todd intends
 to put the IBIS models on the Philips web site.  Philips would be willing
 to send IBIS models to EDA vendors for validation.

 Neven Orhanovic of Interconnectix joined late to participate in the technical
 discussion of BIRD45, which he co-authored.

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher said that there was no update.  Patti recalls that the IBIS
 account has $6,008 (although it has been previously reported as $5,272).

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 Bob Ross changed Matt to Matthew Flora in one location.  The AR's will be
 talked about during the meeting.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 Bob Ross reported that another IBIS East Coast Users Group meeting is
 tentatively planned on Thursday, December 4, 1997, 3:00 pm at a site to be
 determined.  Bob mentioned some of the possible agenda items including:
 what is working well, how to validate models, review of IBIS tools, and
 what are elements needed for system designers (such a low cost simulator).
 This meeting is a local meeting for face-to-face interaction.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Syed Huq reported that the FAQ section has an updated response concerning
 where to find forms for reporting bugs and where to send them regarding
 ibischk, s2ibis, and s2iplt.  Syed also reported changing the Interconnectix
 link to a new page under the Mentor Graphics parent organization page.

 Bob Ross reported that IBIS was mentioned in "New Simulation Tools Help PC
 Boards Meet EMC Requirements", Electronic Design, October 13, 1997, pp. 93-98.

 Bob also indicated that Dr. Howard Johnson's site now has the "IBIS" article
 and several other articles that reference IBIS (including the one printed
 in Printed Circuit Design on IBIS) under

   http://www.sigcon.com/straight.htm

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 Bob Ross reported more IBIS models at Cypress Semiconductor.

 Several other links also exist for Intel and TI IBIS models:

   http://developer.intel.com/design/pro/devtools
   http://cove.intel.com/template/design/tpvtool/arch.cfm?architecture=1
        (Search)

   http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/msp/datatran/app_supp.htm

 Raj Raghuram asked if any vendors were shipping IBIS Version 3.0 models.  
 Arpad Muranyi commented that he has included the [Model Selector] keyword
 in some models within comments for Version 2.1 files.  The user can upgrade
 the model the EDA tool supports the keyword.  After some additional
 discussion, no one knew of Version 3.0 IBIS models being shipped yet.  Some
 tools currently support portions of Version 3.0.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Bob Ross on publishing IBIS Specification in vendor documentation.

 PUBLISHING IBIS SPECIFICATION
 Bob Ross introduced this new item by indicating that there have been requests
 over the years from several sources on getting permission to publish IBIS
 Specifications in commercial documentation (or products).  Bob indicated that
 a general policy of granting that right for fee of $1000 to the company had
 been discussed.  However, it was not formalized or fully understood. 

 Bob proposed that the EIA IBIS Open Forum would grant a permission letter to
 any organization that wants to publish an IBIS Specification for the fee of
 $1000.  This would apply for each major release of the IBIS document as a
 one-time charge.  The current major releases are IBIS Version 1.1, IBIS
 Version 2.1 (also ANSI/EIA-656 and IEC 62014-1), and IBIS Version 3.0.  Upon
 payment of the fee, Patti Rusher would issue the EIA permission letter.

 Prior to the vote, some topics were discussed.  Bob noted that the Web Site
 versions of IBIS contained the IBIS text, but the official specification for
 IBIS Version 2.1 is distributed for a nominal fee by Global Engineering.  It
 contains the necessary header sections and proper nomenclature.  The text
 the various versions of IBIS including work under development is currently
 available on the EIA IBIS Home page.  The committee needs easy access for
 the subsequent development.  Patti noted that there is funding next year for
 upgrading the EIA Web Site for password only access.  So the IBIS material
 could be moved there in the future.  Syed Huq said that maybe only member
 companies could access the Specifications.  Bob stated that this could be
 a future discussion, but we really needed wide-spread distribution to all
 sources as a practical matter for standards development and for wide-spread
 usage of IBIS.  Patti indicated that the IBIS standard would need to be
 stabilized before the access should be restricted.

 Bob noted that one of the motivating factors is that many organizations want
 the permission mechanism in place so there is no question regarding copyright
 issues.  The fee of $1000 is considered nominal for any size organization.
 Because many documents are now embedded into the software and distributed
 with the software product, the permission applies to any form of distribution
 of the Standard in a product or document.

 Stephen Peters asked if this applies to the Cookbook document as well, and
 Bob answered no, just to the IBIS Standards.  It does not apply to any other
 document or free utility.

 After some discussion this proposal was approved by unanimous vote.

 INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
 - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher is still waiting for the
   official approval of the unanimous vote from IEC.  When approval is reached,
   the IEC nomenclature will be added to the ANSI/EIA-656 document.  Patti
   will also issue a press release.

 - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Patti Rusher and Raj Raghuram
   did not have any further status.  Patti needs to review the final minutes
   of the last IEC meeting to see if it is a work item with a number.

 DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT
 Syed Huq reported on plans for the EIA IBIS Summit Meeting on Monday, January
 26, 1997.  He has reserved a room at the Westin Hotel adjacent to the Santa
 Clara Convention Center.   He needs final confirmation before sending out the 
 information.  In the last years, the Summit has attracted about 40 people
 for presentations and discussions.  National Semiconductor will also be
 providing the breakfasts and buffet lunch.  The meeting will be from 8 am to
 5 pm, with the actual sessions beginning around 9 am.  As before, electronic
 copies are requested of the presentations before the meeting so Syed can have
 copies available at the session.

 We did a polling of attendees at the meeting, and most said they planned to
 attend.  Arpad Muranyi commented that high frequency issues using IBIS
 would be a good topic.  Upon further reflection, he stated that he may have
 the resources (e.g., Spice models and measurement equipment) to do research 
and
 provide the presention - if he has time.

 Bob Ross reported that he has been working with the people for DesignCon98
 which is scheduled Tuesday thru Thursday, January 27-29, 1998 at the Santa
 Clara Convention Center.  The three modeling related presentations are
 scheduled on Tuesday, the day following the IBIS Summit meeting.  In the
 late afternoon at 4:30 pm there will be a panel session on "How Good Are The
 Currently Available IBIS Models".  So attendees should plan on at least both
 Monday through Tuesday evening for IBIS and modeling related presentations and
 discussions.

 DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT
 Bob Ross reported that we have reserved Thursday, February 26, 1998 of a
 European IBIS Summit meeting in Paris, France.  It is currently planned to
 be all day at a room in the Concorde-Lafayette hotel, the day after the trade
 show portion of the DATE98 conference.  The DATE98 conference and exhibition
 will be held at the adjacent Le Palais des Congress de Paris Porte Mailot.

 The Mentor Graphics Paris field office is hosting the meeting, but other
 companies are welcome to join in to reinforce that this is a vendor neutral
 Summit.  Smaller companies may also join in for some of the smaller expenses.
 Bob will be sending out information for early planning, and preparation of
 presentations.  Bob indicated that even though he will do most the initial
 organization, he is looking for a European participation and presentations
 to solicit new ideas, experiences and issues.  IBIS and EMC remains as a
 potential discussion topic.  He has already gotten indications of
 participation from European IBIS users and suppliers.

 The DATE Conference itself is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL) and
 ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC).  More information is available at:

   http://www.date-conference.com

 S2IBIS FOR NT
 No report, the AR remains.  From a question from Stephen Peters, Bob Ross
 indicated that this is unrelated to the s2ibis3 activity that R. sanjeev
 (Presi) is planning in India.

 AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site.

 EDITING COMMITTEE
 Bob Ross posted the first editorial pass of IBIS Version 3.0 as 

    /pub/ibis/wip/ver3_1a.ibs

 It contains some language consistency or terminology elimination.  Bob gave
 some examples such as standardizing on the usage of "component" and "device",
 and eliminating "part", changing "silicon vendors" to "semiconductor vendors",
 using "pin name" instead of "pin number".  In addition a table of contents
 and the beginnings of a General Introduction section has been added to help
 partition the sections in a clearer manner.  Steven Peters and Bob had met
 a while ago to discuss these changes, and they are finally been implemented
 and posted according to one AR.  Bob noted that he found on review several
 minor errors, so he will provide occasional updates.  The BNF AR remains.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Bob Ross noted that we need to start looking at how to address BIRD44.  Bob
 plans to make this a discussion topic at the next meeting.

 IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS
 No report.  The AR remains.  Bob Ross noted that he and Chris Rokusek
 discussed one of the Bugs, and it might not be in the area that Chris had
 worked.  So someone else may be more appropriate to address it.

 AR - Matthew Flora implement the bug fixes needed to produce ibischk2
 version 2.115.

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 Bob Ross met with the contractor, Atul Agarwal, of APT Software Avenues Pvt
 Ltd, and Atul plans to start work now on reviewing the Specification and plans
 to begin the implementation when he returns to India in December.  Bob
 communicated to Atul that we still do not have financial commitment in
 place yet.  However, he has solid commitments from five companies, and has
 been tracking what appear to be at least five more purchase orders in process.
 So he is confident that we will have the commitment needed for the contract.
 
 Bob showed Atul the old BNF, the old test matrix, and the tree diagram to help
 in the parser development project.  The test matrix was originally done by
 Stephen Peters and Bob.  Bob indicated that it needs to be extended for 
 the Version 3.0 functions.  This will probably happen concurrent with the
 parser development.  We also need IBIS Version 3.0 examples for testing, 
 similar to the examples needed in for the Cookbook project.

 COOKBOOK
 Stephen Peters indicated no progress due to other projects.

 All the ARs are carried forward.

 AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
  Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
  Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
  Stephen Peters - Example 3 

 AR - Syed Huq.  Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
 I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 No discussion.

 BIRD45 DYNAMIC CLAMPS
 Bob Ross introduced BIRD45 in response to the switching terminator agenda
 item.  The basic concept is that two additional clamp tables are introduced
 with rules consistent with the existing [GND Clamp] and [POWER Clamp] tables.
 The new clamps are are [Dynamic GND Clamp] and [Dynamic POWER Clamp].  Bob
 indicated that he felt this was easier that to try to create extensions
 to the existing  keywords.

 For the purposes of discussion, Bob talked only about the [Dynamic GND Clamp].
 The [Dynamic POWER Clamp] would be similar.  The [Dynamic GND Clamp] would
 be referenced to the [GND Clamp Reference] voltage.  It contains the typ,
 min, max tables.  As proposed it has the same range and rules (100 point
 limit) as [GND Clamp].  However, this may change.  The proposal documents
 six subparameters to do the shifting of the clamp relative to the [Gnd Clamp
 Reference].  They include the offset voltage, V_offset, and the T_delay,
 T_on, T_width, and T_off to control the delay, ramp time on, duration, and
 ramp time off of a complete cycle.  The complete pulse would be triggered
 by a falling edge threshold value V_trigger and would in practice occur only
 during the falling response to dynamically clamp undershoot.  This 
 specification applies for all three tables.  Another key aspect includes the
 fact that any diode kickback effects (related to the TT parameter) are not
 modeled.  One open issue is that the internal structure contains an FET tied
 to another (undocumented) rail which could be souring of sinking some
 dynamic currents.  This rail might need to be identified in some manner in
 a proposal revision to relate this to any power and ground bounce analysis.

 With this introduction some discussion points were raised.  Arpad Muranyi
 commented that this structure and more advanced variations were being built
 and distributed to customers.  Bob confirmed that there had been customer
 requests to support this new technology.  

 Arpad questioned the V_trigger for the [Dynamic Power Clamp] would be 
 referenced in a parallel manner to the [Power Clamp Reference].  This was
 inconsistent since both Vinl and Vinh are reference to the same rail.  He
 also indicated that the triggering mechanism could be more complicated and
 also that some devices may start at the on (shifted state) even without a
 trigger.  One proposal was to allow negative delay so that the clamp is 
 always on.  More work is needed to deal with the variations of switching
 initiation methods that have been implemented.

 Arpad would have preferred a waveform description of the T_on and T_off
 shape.  Bob thought the simpler approach should be adequate since there was 
 no way to get this information directly.  Arpad tentatively agreed for this
 proposal since it could be added later if it is really needed.  Arpad also
 indicated that there were significant variations in the pulse shape and offset
 for typ, min, and max conditions.  So Bob and Neven Orhanovic indicated that
 the proposal would have to be restructured to support typ, min, and max
 subparameters. 

 Arpad wanted to review the proposal in terms of some functionality that may
 be coming in the near future.  In particular he wanted to know if the 
 method could be generalized for [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables.  Dave Moxley
 asked if the [Driver Selection] keyword in Version 3.0 could be applied to
 provide this extra functionality.  [Driver Selection] references any number
 of [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables (with possible waveform control) and 
 some of the tables could be adapted though differences in values to produce
 the desired effect.  Arpad did not know and thought it was worth
 investigating.

 Neven indicated that he had a private question regarding BIRD45 from C. Kumar,
 but there was no reflector discussion on the subject.

 Arpad stated that he may want to meet directly with Bob and Neven next Friday
 (since he could plan to be in the area anyway), and work out more details.
 (This has been arranged off-line.)

 MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSION
 Bob Ross commented briefly on the reflector discussions on low cost simulators
 and IBIS to Spice conversion.  He indicated that several vendors do IBIS to
 Spice conversion in commercial products, and also some companies have in-house
 utilities for this.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, December 5, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
             M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
             Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================