Subject: IBIS Meeting Minutes, Oct 17, 1997

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 08:46:10 -0700

DATE: October 20, 1997

 SUBJECT: 10/17/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
  
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Jeff Walden
 Applied Simulation Technology  [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*,
                                Fred Balistreri
 Cadence Design & UniCAD        C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 High Design Technology         (Razvan Ene)
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora*
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
				Will Hobbs, Frank Kern*
 Interconnectix                 Bob Ross*
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
 Motorola                       [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
                                Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
				Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
 NCR                            Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Peivand Tehrani
                                Graham Bell
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens
 VLSI Technology                Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
 3M                             [Fran Hart]
 Actel                          Scott Schlachter
 Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
 Dell Computer                  Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 EMC                            Fabrizio Zanella
 Hewlett Packard, Boise         Paul Gregory*
 Hewlett Packard, France        Jean-Christophe Pautrat
 Hitachi                        Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa 
 IBM                            Brad Herrman
 Interface Technology           Dan Waterloo*
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                      
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 S3, Inc.                       Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tandem                         Mark Simpson*
 TRW                            Ray Steele
 Ultratest International        Charles Im
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl 

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
     
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   11/7/97            (916) 356-9200    3-159555         4855377
   12/05/97           (916) 356-9200    3-159556         6788873
 
 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 Mark Simpson from Tandem is interested in IBIS to off load nets that do not
 need detailed HSPICE analysis.

 Paul Gregory of Hewlett Packard, Boise is interested in IBIS modeling
 techniques for high frequency design.

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Hewlett Packard is being moved back to full membership status since the issue
 about the invoices is being resolved.  Bob Ross does not know of any expenses
 since the last report of $5,272.

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 No corrections were reported.  The AR's will be dealt with during the meeting.
 Arpad Muranyi reported that the Minutes are coming in as an attachment - a
 minor inconvenience.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 It looks like the slow IBIS reflector response that Bob Ross discussed at the
 last meeting turned out to be a local issue only.  This has been fixed.

 Bob will move the mail system over to Majordomo since all of the major groups
 on eda.org are using this system.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Syed Huq reported several changes to the EIA/IBIS Web Site.  The Home page
 format is modular.  Bob Ross' article "Practical Issues with IBIS Models"
 presented at the PCB Design Conference East in September 1997 is now in HTML
 format under the Articles section.  A link to the new IBIS Cookbook has
 been added for downloading only in the Tools section.  The document is located
 on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip since it is expected to be updated at various
 times.  A missing dV/dt definition in the Cookbook Version 1.1 has been
 added per a comment by Matt Flora.  Some Roster changes and updates have been
 made for several companies.  Syed plans to provide an FAQ on reporting bugs.

 Bob reported that Eric Blomberg has written "IBIS "Models" Come of Age"
 in Printed Circuit Design, October 1997, pp. 19-21.

 Bob also reported a brief mention of IBIS in "New Paradigms Ensure High-
 Performance PCBs" in the October issue of Computer Design, pp. 60-69.

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 Syed Huq reported that he had sent out a message regarding a new SuperI/O
 model available from the National Semiconductor IBIS Site.

 Bob Ross reported that International Microcircuits, Inc. has an FTP site with
 password protected IBIS models at:

   ftp://ftp.best.com/pub.i/imiweb8/ibis

 A marketing contact is listed in the contacts.txt file to obtain the passwords
 to unlock the files.  Also one can go to the  http://www.imicorp.com location
 to get more information about any part and how to contact the company.

 Bob Ross reported that Quicklogic has an IBIS library under development.  There
 was a copyright confusion mistake which has been cleared up according to
 Matthew Flora.  The link is:

   http://www.quicklogic.com/techinfo/techinfo.htm

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Arpad Muranyi on some IBIS models with stair step tables.

 INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
 - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - As previously reported, Bob Ross stated 
   that the vote report needs to be approved before Patti Rusher will issue
   the press release.

 - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - This work item has been dropped
   as previously reported.

 - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob understands that this is now
   a formal work item under IEC.  He does not have its number.

 DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT
 Syed Huq volunteered that National would be willing to host the annual IBIS
 Summit meeting held with DesignCon98 (formerly Design SuperCon) in Santa 
 Clara, California.  If others Bay Area companies want to volunteer as Host,
 they are welcome to submit their request.  Bob Ross stated that unless we 
 hear of any requests we will assume that National will serve as host.  Syed
 plans to send out information regarding the meeting.  Like last year, we plan
 some technical presentations and discussions related to IBIS issues and IBIS
 usage.  The meeting is planned on Monday, January 26, 1998, the day before
 DesignCon98 begins.

 Arpad Muranyi commented that high-frequency modeling might be an interesting
 topic based on the discussion raised by Paul Gregory.  Arpad is concurrently
 trying to resolve delay differences with Spice transmission line models.

 Bob indicated that there are three IBIS related presentations submitted to
 DesignCon98 which extends from Tuesday through Thursday, January 27-29, 1997.
 Also, there may be a modeling panel session.  Bob is suggesting that these
 activities occur on Tuesday, the day after the IBIS Summit.

 DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT
 Bob had received an initial suggestion from High Design Technology of Italy
 regarding an IBIS meeting along with DATE98 Conference in February, 1998 in
 Paris.  After some followup with several individuals and after sending out
 an inquiry on the IBIS reflectors, there does seem to be interest in such
 a meeting.  Bob has followed up with the French Mentor Graphics field office
 regarding logistics of cost and scheduling of such a meeting.

 Bob indicated that he would welcome other European companies or European
 field offices to join in hosting the meeting.

 Based on the response, there appears initial interest from HDT, Alcatel, 
 Siemens, Thomson, and HP France.  Also several U.S. IBIS members expressed
 interest in attending.  Several people plan to do presentations, and others
 suggested a variety of interesting topics to be sent out later.

 Several people did not want a Sunday meeting.  So the only dates now being
 investigated are Thursday, February 26, 1998 and possibly Monday, February 23,
 1998 at hotels at or nearby the DATE98 conference.

 The sense of the committee was to proceed.  Everyone thought it was a good
 especially since IBIS now is an IEC standard.  Bob indicated that we need
 to firm up commitments by the end of October.  He will work with several
 IBIS officers to help make some of the decisions.

 (Added later: the DATE Conference is the continuation of EuroDAC (with
 EuroVHDL) and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC).  More information is available
 at http://www.date-conference.com).

 S2IBIS FOR NT
 Bob Ross reported that s2ibis_v1.3 for NT has been posted on the Veribest Web
 site.  s2ibis2_v2.1 is still under development so that part of the AR remains.

 Arpad Muranyi had raised as a new issue the concern that some IBIS models
 have stair step tables.  Bob responded that this was a result of a known
 problem with s2ibis2_v2.1 that does not have the s2ibis2_fix code.  Without
 the fix, the table resolution can be as low as two digits in a manner that can
 cause up to a 10% discontinuity.  The EIA/IBIS Home page now points to a
 directory where s2ibis2_fix exists.  The VeriBest conversion should have the
 fix code included.

 AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site.

 S2IBIS3 PROJECT
 Bob Ross reported that R. Sanjeev (who also goes by Presi) is planning to work
 on s2ibis3 after looking into some bug fixes for s2ibis2.  He is a Masters
 degree student at the Indian Institute of Technology, Madras India.  He has
 done IBIS model development while working at Cadence using s2ibis.

 EDITING COMMITTEE
 Bob Ross reported that he has made the editing pass to simplify and reduce the
 variations on the terms used in IBIS Version 3.0.  He still has not broken it
 into manageable sections.  When this is done, this will be put into the work in
 progress directory.  The AR is still in effect.

 Stephen Peters asked and Bob responded that the BNF AR still needs to be done.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0
 and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory.

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 No discussion.

 IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS
 Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora plans to implement the bug fixes reported
 at the last meeting as part of an ibischk2+ version 2.115.  This correction
 will serve as a new base line for ibischk3 development.

 AR - Matthew Flora implement the bug fixes needed to produce ibischk2
 version 2.115.

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 After last meeting, Bob Ross sent out the request for purchase orders to 
 support the ibischk3 parser development.  So far, has either copies of 
 purchase orders of commitments to generate purchase orders from:

   Applied Simulation Technology
   Incases
   Interconnectix
   Hyperlynx

 At the meeting, Frank Kern indicated that the Intel purchase order was being
 signed off.  Syed Huq indicated that National Semiconductor's purchase order
 should be expected next week.

 Bob indicated that the EIA IBIS Open Forum will own the source code.  The 
 license owner will have the right to use the source code or to modify it to
 generate utilities and products for sale.  The license is for the entire 
 corporation, consistent with the membership rules of EIA - one vote per
 entire company.  The source code itself is not to be redistributed.  Several
 individuals raised questions on these points, and Bob plans to work with
 Ken Willis of Cadence to craft the appropriate wording.  This is needed for 
 Cadence to issue a purchase order.  

 Bob indicated that based on some private e-mail, several other companies were
 moving forward on issuing purchase orders.

 COOKBOOK
 Stephen Peters indicated that there is no further progress.  Frank Kern still
 may do an introductory section, but is currently involved in company projects.

 All the ARs are carried forward.

 AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
  Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
  Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
  Stephen Peters - Example 3 

 AR - Syed Huq.  Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
 I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Bob Ross noted that there was reflector discussion on issues related to
 BIRD42.3.  Arpad Muranyi asked how the discussion related to ground and
 power bounce.  Bob Ross felt that from one point of view, BIRD42.3 provided
 extra information for giving more accurate answers for the buffer only.
 Stephen Peters thought that the thrust of BIRD42.3 was to describe a
 3-terminal device.  From another point of view, it could be used for a more
 accurate analysis.  In conjunction with the [Pin Mapping] keyword, the
 buffer details for bounce can be described with greater first-order accuracy.
 Bob also noted that there are other signals such as internal clock networks
 that add to the internal bounce effect through internal feedback.  These can
 be as significant as the bounce contributed by the buffers themselves.  These
 effects could be added though another method.

 Bob commented that one of the threads in the BIRD42.3 discussion related to
 DC Sessions example itself.  The example implied a need for using two
 waveforms to describe the independent action of the top and bottom transistors.
 Bob modeled it in Spice, but did not have time to finish it for distribution.
 Bob feels that a necessary element in the discussion is the algorithms used to
 process the information.

 Raj Raghuram suggested that some formal academic research might be helpful
 in resolving the modeling of bounce effects.  He will contact some individuals
 regarding such a project.  Bob and Raj also commented on the EIAJ III proposal
 that gives a more detailed description of the internal chip power distribution
 and uses table based transistor models.  This description contains more 
 information that is useful for buffer bounce analysis.  

 Except for this general discussion, BIRD42.3 is not moving forward.  A next
 step may be a minor revision to map it in with the current Version 3.0 
 text.  At some future time we will consider this issue for resolution.

 SWITCHING TERMINATORS
 Arpad Muranyi reported that he will work with Bob Ross concerning describing
 the characteristics so that its features can be formulated into a BIRD.  Bob
 reported that he has a rough idea of what is needed for simulation.  However,
 he has some interaction type questions to best fit the functionality into
 the IBIS format.  Some of these relate to which rail sources or sinks the
 current to be compatible for future bounce analysis.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, November 7, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
             M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
             Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================