Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes 9/26

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 15:17:33 -0700

DATE: October 2, 1997

 SUBJECT: 9/26/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
  
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Jeff Walden
 Applied Simulation Technology  [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*,
                                Fred Balistreri*
 Cadence Design & UniCAD        C. Kumar*, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 High Design Technology         (Razvan Ene)
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matthew Flora*
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
				Will Hobbs, Frank Kern*
 Interconnectix                 Bob Ross*
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
 Motorola                       [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
                                Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
				Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
 NCR                            Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Peivand Tehrani
                                Graham Bell*
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, William Bell, Dave Wiens
 VLSI Technology                Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
 3M                             [Fran Hart]
 Actel                          Scott Schlachter
 Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
 Dell Computer                  Dave Baranauskas, Doug Wallace
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 EMC                            Fabrizio Zanella
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 Hewlett Packard, France        Jean-Christophe Pautrat
 Hitachi                        Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa 
 IBM                            Brad Herrman
 Interface Technology           Dan Waterloo 
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                      
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 S3, Inc.                       Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 TRW                            Ray Steele
 Ultratest International        Charles Im
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl 

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
     
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   10/17/97           (916) 356-9200    4-120224         5819441

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 No new participants.  Patti Rusher and Chris Rokusek could not attend this
 meeting.

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Bob Ross did not have any updates.  The last treasurer's report is $5,272.
 We are still following up on one member's payment.

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 Bob Ross reported that Dave Wiens name was corrected in several places from
 Wien.  The next meeting Date was corrected in the Passcode section.

 Stephen Peters indicated that a number of AR's had been fulfilled and this
 will be discussed during the meeting.  Other AR's will be carried forward.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 Bob Ross has been investigating slow eda.org IBIS reflector responses.  At
 this time he does not know if this is something associated with eda.org and
 the network in general or is a problem with his site.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Syed Huq updated us on progress.  The next Web page update will contain a
 revised link to s2ibis2 on eda.org since the NCSU link did not have the fixed
 code.  He has added to the FAQ information regarding filing bug reports for
 ibischk.  However, because Bob Ross moved the location under eda.org to
 /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk, the answer needs to be revised.  Syed also added
 H.A.S. Electric to the roster and changed the membership status of some
 other entries.

 Syed is still pursuing adding the logo of AMP to the Poster Page. [Done].
  
 Syed will add a link to the interim updated IBIS Cookbook under development
 for downloading.  It is located as:

   ftp://ftp.eda.org/pub/ibis/wip/ckbkwfw3.doc

 Bob reported that he received permission to post his paper "Practical Issues
 with IBIS Models" given at the PCB Design Conference East in September 1997,
 and it is available for downloading at:

   ftp://ftp.eda.org/pub/ibis/docs/pcbeas97.doc

 Syed will convert it to html format for the EIA/IBIS Web site linking.  Syed
 has received permission and will also provide a link to his open tutorial
 presentation "Understanding and Using IBIS Models for Signal Integrity
 Analysis" at the Electronic System Design Conference (HESDC '97) in October
 1997.

 Bob added after the meeting that "SPICE and IBIS" were discussed in a 
 Commentary by Charles Small in Computer Design, September, 1997, pg. 44,
 titled "Taking the Drudgery out of Component Selection".

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 Arpad Muranyi reported that there are some updates to some Intel IBIS models
 available under NDA.  Raj Raghuram questioned why models needed to be under
 NDA, contrary to the non-proprietary nature of the IBIS format.  Stephen
 Peters defended the NDA policy for devices that have not been officially
 released.  However, Arpad indicated that these models were for already
 released devices.  So this is an internal Intel policy.

 Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora discovered that Atmel has a site for IBIS
 models at:

   http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod173.htm

 Bob reported that the National GTL models are now at Fairchild Semiconductor
 at:

   http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/Ibis/Gtl/index.html

 The National Clock Generation and Support Models are also at Fairchild at:

   http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/Ibis/Cgs/index.html

 Bob also reported more IDT models and that Motorola has removed an empty
 models directory for FSRAM.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 None.

 INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
 - 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross reports that ANSI/EIA-656 has been
   approved as an international standard at the Tokyo meeting on September 16-
   18, 1997 according to Patti Rusher.  Its number is IEC 62014-1.  There was
   an objection based on the existence of IBIS Version 3.0, but that objection
   was withdrawn after it was revealed that Version 3.1 is planned for the
   formal standardization processes.  IBIS has passed these stages:  Committee
   Draft for Comment (CDC) and Committee Draft for Vote (CDV).  Once the voting
   report is officially approved at the IEC headquarters in Geneva, IEC 62014-1
   will be official.  Patti will then issue a press release.

 - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - Bob reports that no document
   exists backing this proposal.  It looks like this proposal is being
   withdrawn.  An investigation committee on EMI and EMC is being set up in
   IEC.
   
 - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - The EIAJ subcommittee gave its
   presentation and showed Version 0.0.  (This is the same document presented
   at the IBIS subgroup meeting in March 1997 in Santa Clara.)  The proposal
   has been accepted as a new work item under IEC TC93.  This along with other
   related activities above have been moved from WG3 to WG6.  Patti recommends
   that there be coordination with the Compact Modeling Council (for Spice
   BSIM3 Version 3.1 standardization) and IBIS.

 Bob also discussed some of the Compact Modeling Council activities and its
 structure under EIA.

 EAST COAST IBIS USERS GROUP REPORT (ALSO PCBEAST)
 Bob Ross reported that a very successful initial IBIS East Users Group
 meeting hosted by Dr. Ed Sayre of North East Systems Associates (NESA)
 was held in Foxboro, Massachusetts on Thursday, September 18, 1997.  About
 42 people attended including several West coast people.  The discussion
 concerned general topics related to IBIS models, accuracy, applicability,
 and availability.  Ed plans to continue having monthly user group meetings.

 Participants in the meeting who were online today included Jeff Chu, Arpad
 Muranyi, Graham Bell, and Bob Ross.  All gave positive comments.  Arpad asked if
 presentations would be published.  Bob thought probably not.  They involved
 updated information from Bob's IBIS Summit presentation (which can be posted
 separately) and a general presentation by Gary Husted of Intel on Intel's
 handling of IBIS models.

 S2IBIS FOR NT
 Bob Ross reports Dave Wiens has posted s2ibis_ver1.3 on the VeriBest Web
 site.  s2ibis_ver2.1 is still under development so that part of the AR
 remains.

 AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest Web site.

 EDITING COMMITTEE
 Stephen Peters reported no further work.  The existing AR's are still in 
 effect.  Bob plans to comply with them within weeks since he now has some
 time.

 Stephen reported that Bob posted an unofficial tree diagram for IBIS Version
 3.0 in eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip/tree3_0.txt.  This was and extension of
 Ogawa-san's earlier work and is provided for information.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0
 and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory.

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Bob Ross indicated that the processing of BIRD44 will be deferred until we
 have a revised Version 3.0 draft to work with.  Jeff Chu asked for a
 clarification of min and max, as it related to this issue.  A discussion
 followed, pointing to information in the Notes on Data Derivation Section
 at the end of the IBIS document.

 VERSION 2.1 PARSER (& S2IBIS) BUG REPORTING
 Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora generated an NT version of ibischk2+
 which also works under Windows95.  It is stored on eda.org as
 /pub/ibis/ibschk2+/dos32/ibischk2.exe.  The dos32 directory is used for 
 32 bit DOS.  The utility does not work with 16 bit DOS systems.  There already
 exists an ibischk2.exe under the ibischk2 subdirectory for all DOS systems.

 The AR regarding an additional FAQ has been done (although it now needs
 revision as previously discussed because the ibischk information has been
 moved to a newly created subdirectory /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk).

 Stephen Peters questioned Bob about the AR concerning s2ibis bugs.  That
 AR has also been completed.  Under eda.org/pub/ibis/bugs, there exists
 three new subdirectories (along with the ibischk subdirectory) of 
 /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2, /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt.
 Bug report forms exist in each of these subdirectories (the .txt document).
 Sent all bug reports to [email-masked].  A separate e-mail address for
 the Spice related bugs is not planned.

 (Note, this process is also documented at the end of these Minutes.)

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 Bob Ross reported that a committee reviewed the bids and options and selected
 a contractor.  The contractor, based in India, has an excellent track record
 working with several IBIS member companies on IBIS and modeling projects.  The
 committee also proposed a funding method (thanks to the suggestion by Chris
 Rokusek) that purchase orders be issued for the IBISCHK3 Source Code and
 License not to exceed $2,500.  This will allow sharing the development costs
 among several companies.  Once the bid price is reached through purchase order
 commitments, the contractor can start.  The actual invoice will then be the 
 total cost divided by the number of companies participating.  Bob estimates
 that the actual invoice may be about $1,500 per company.

 The IBIS Open Forum agreed to proceed with this plan.  Bob will sent out the 
 information for generating the purchase orders.  Bob polled the members and
 got indications of solid commitments from seven companies.  Bob also knows
 of likely commitments from three more.  The IBIS forum will still be
 seeking others commit to this joint development project to drive down the
 cost for each company.  Bob estimates the invoices will be issued around
 December, 1997.  Once the invoices are issued, the ibischk3 parser price will
 be established as that price for future purchases (to be fair to the original
 group).

 AR - Bob Ross send out on the IBIS reflector information for generating
 purchase order.  [Done]

 Bob mentioned that per a reflector e-mail from Kellee Chrisafulli, he has
 created a directory on eda.org under /pub/ibis/samples for files to be
 used for testing.  There are subdirectories for ver1.1, ver2.1 and ver3.0
 samples.  Bob currently has the cbt.ibs for a 74CBT3383 series switch device
 under ver3.0.

 Also the test matrix for Version 3.0 tests needs to be extended from the
 older Version 2.1 test matrix.  With an external contractor doing the
 ibischk3 development, we can focus on the testing and validation portion
 of the project.

 COOKBOOK
 As previously mentioned Stephen Peters has supplied the interim ckbkwfw3.doc
 posted in eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip.  It will be updated regularly.  Bob
 Ross commented that the last section still contains an e-mail access method
 that needs to be deleted.  Stephen welcomes review and comments.

 The previous ARs are carried forward.  Syed Huq has completed the link to 
 the Cookbook document from the EIA/IBIS Web page, and it should be in place
 at the next Web page update.  The other ARs carried forward are as follows:

 AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
  Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
  Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
  Stephen Peters - Example 3 

 AR - Syed Huq.  Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
 I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".

 VERSION3.0 PRIORITIES DISCUSSION
 Per the discussion of last meeting, Bob Ross opened the meeting to discussion
 of semiconductor vendor priorities concerning Version 3.0 features.  Frank
 Kern and Stephen Peters added some priorities to the previous discussion to
 prioritize from a list of general features.  (Some other members had to leave
 the meeting.)  The list below shows the highest priority features:

   [Model Selector]
   [Driver Schedule]
   Electrical Board Description
   Package Model Extensions (for lines)

   Features lower on the priority list included:

   Diode kickback ([TTgnd], [TTpower]
   Series Elements
   Series Switches
   [Model Spec] and [Component] test point subparameters

 Frank also reinforced the need for some Verion 2.1 features missing in some
 simulators including the independent voltage reference selections.

 NEW IBISCHK BUGS
 Bob Ross opened the subject of recently reported bugs.  Matthew Flora had just
 submitted bugs against the existing ibischk2 and ibischk2+ parsers.  The
 purpose was to decide the severity, priority and further action.  The general
 action will be to provide a version 2.115 upgrade of ibischk2+.  That will
 provide a better baseline to begin the ibischk3 development project.  Matthew
 was able to isolate the source and cause of most of the bugs and is available
 to do the upgrade.  Most of the fixes are minor.

 Bob and Matthew review the bugs with this format: (Severity, Priority, Action,
 Notes).  When a file has [IBIS Ver] 1.1, the ibischk2+ parser uses the 
 original ibis_chk code developed for Version 1.1 files.  So when the note
 refers to Version 1.1 files, it means that the bug was introduced during the
 ibischk2 development project.

    BUG9       Crash if Keyword Associated with [Model] Comes First
                 (Severe, High, Fix, Does not crash for Version 1.1 files)
    BUG10      Crash if Parser Encounters Empty V/I Table
                 (Severe, High, Fix, Does not crash for Version 1.1 files)
    BUG11      Parser Continues after [End] Keyword
                 (Moderate, Medium, Fix, Works properly for Version 1.1 files)
    BUG12      Lines Greater than 1024 Characters Cause Wrong Line Numbers
                 (Annoying, Low, Fix, Cause identified)
    BUG13      Parser Crashes if Error in Line Longer than 256 Characters
                 (Annoying, Low, Fix, Cause identified)                   
    BUG14      Long Illegal Keyword Prints Meaningless Message 
                 (Annoying, Low, Fix - A Version 1.1 problem that is not
                 a problem with Version 2.1 files)
    BUG15      "Program Bug" for Version 1.1 Files with more than 512 Pins
                 (Moderate, Medium, Fix, an old Version 1.1 defect that 
                 does not exist with Version 2.1 files)                     
    BUG16      [Package] Argument Does Not Give Error
                 (Moderate, Medium, Fix, Works properly for Version 1.1 files)
    BUG17      Incomplete [Pin] L_pin, C_pin, R_pin Error Message
                 (Annoying, Low, Fix, Works properly for Version 1.1 files)
    BUG18      Other Order R_pin, L_pin, C_pin Columns Not Correctly Read
                 (Moderate, Medium, Chris Rokusek Fix? - This is related to
                 some incorrect warnings in ibischk2+ when the columns are
                 legally interchanged.)

 In addition, the ibischk2+ version number will be incremented to 2.115.  Also,
 Bob and Matthew will deal off-line on putting in an error report switch as
 discussed at the last meeting.  Bob feels this is of lower priority than 
 getting the code itself fixed.

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Bob Ross mentioned D.C. Sessions wrote a comment on BIRD42.3.  However, the
 general discussion was deferred due to lack of time.

 SWITCHING TERMINATORS
 No Report.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, October 17, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
             M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
             Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================