Subject: IBIS Teleconference Minutes 8/8/97

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 09:21:56 -0700

DATE: August 13, 1997

 SUBJECT: 8/8/97 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
  
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1997 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            Jeff Walden
 Applied Simulation Technology  [Dileep Divekar], Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram,
                                Fred Balistreri*
 Cadence Design & UniCAD        C. Kumar, Don Telian, Cameron Seitz
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*
 High Design Technology         (Razvan Ene)
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Steve Kaufer, Matt Flora*
 INCASES                        Olaf Rethmeier*, Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Henry Maramis,
				Will Hobbs, Frank Kern*
 Interconnectix                 Bob Ross*
 Mitsubushi                     Tam Cao, Hoang Nguyen
 Motorola                       [Ahmed Omer], Michael Desiderio, Paul Bolden,
                                Tom Myers, Rob Wenzel*
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, Mike Bristol,
				Peter Laflamme, Kevin Smith
 NCR                            Dave Moxley, Richard Mellitz
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Peivand Tehrani
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, William Bell
 VLSI Technology                Harish Patel, D.C. Sessions
 
 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1997:
 3M                             [Fran Hart]
 Actel                          Scott Schlachter
 Acuson & Free Model Foundation Richard Munden
 Alcatel                        John Fitzpatrick
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Weston Beal, Mark Leonard
 Dell Computer                  Dave Baranauskas*, Doug Wallace*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 EMC                            Fabrizio Zanella
 Hewlett Packard, EEsof         Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
 Hewlett Packard, France        Jean-Christophe Pautrat
 Hitachi                        Saburo Hojo, Yasushi Ogawa 
 IBM                            Brad Herrman
 Interface Technology           Dan Waterloo 
 Micron Technology              Brian Johnson                      
 Molex                          Gus Panella
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 S3, Inc.                       Porsh Shih, Sarathy Sribhashyam
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 TRW                            Ray Steele
 Ultratest International        Charles Im
 Zeelan Technology              George Opsahl 

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
     
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   September 5, 1997  (916) 356-9200    2-177650          2591118

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 The following new participants introduced themselves:

 Fred Balistreri of Applied Simulation Technology was involved in the early
 development of IBIS and expressed his company's continued interest in IBIS.
 Raj Raghuram will be the representive calling in to replace long term 
 representative Dileep Divekar.

 Matt Flora just joined Hyperlynx is and responsible for IBIS model developemnt
 and the Visual IBIS Editor.

 Frank Kern of Intel is with the XTG Group responsible for issuing new 
 generation IBIS (and Quad) models and also supports the hardware team
 using IBIS models to convey information.  He expressed concern regarding
 no Version 3.0 Golden Parser to validate IBIS models.

 Rob Wenzel of Motorola just joined to replace Ahmed Omer and will be suporting
 internal Spice to IBIS conversions.

 Dave Baranauskas (and later Doug Wallace) called from Dell Computer.  Dave has
 several years experience using IBIS.  His interest is to leverage IBIS for
 Signal Integrity and timing issues.  He expressed a strong vested interest
 in IBIS and in requiring IBIS models for semiconductor vendors.  (Dave
 verified Fran Hart formerly with 3M is with Dell.)

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher reported no membership change.  She reported committee income
 of $11,750 and an existing net of $5,272 (down from $9,433 from the last
 minutes after some DAC expenses, reprint purchases, and other expenses.  Bob
 Ross questioned whether credit was given for the latest official member.

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 No Corrections.

 Stephen Peters reviewed the AR's.  The major outstanding ones are for
 examples for the Cookbook and BIRDs and will be carried forward.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 Bob Ross reported everyone is back from vacation and thanks Stephen Peters
 and Syed Huq for helping out with the system administration tasks.

 Congratulations to Stephen Peters for the new addition Spencer James Peters.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Bob Ross reported that Howard Johnson's May 1997 Electronic Design article
 which references IBIS is availble from his site under Straight Talk for Serious
 Digital Designers, "Planning for Signal Integrity" under http://www.sigcon.com.

 Syed Huq reported on some EIA/IBIS Web page changes including roster updates
 and Version 3.0 access.

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 Bob Ross notes that these Web sites have added models:

   Cypress Semiconductor has added many more IBIS model for FCT octals and
   16 bit logic, SRAMs, Programmable Logic, and Programmable Skew Clocks.

   IDT, Motorola and Texas Instruments have added IBIS models.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Bob Ross - East Coast IBIS Users Group Meeting
 Patti Rusher - EIA Matters - Budget, Design Automation 98 Booth.

 EAST COAST IBIS USERS GROUP
 Bob Ross reported that Dr. Ed Sayre of North East Systems Associates (NESA)
 is investigating hosting an East Coast IBIS Users meeting in Massachusettes.
 The tentative date will be Thursday, September 18, 1997 since Bob and others
 will be at the PCB East conference on September 17.  Bob suggested Ed send out
 information on the IBIS reflectors to see who might be interested.  The agenda
 or topics still needs to be developed.

 EIA IBIS MATTERS
 Pattie Rusher indicated that we need to work with EIA concerning next years
 budget to cover some anticipated Writer/Developer expenses.  Pattie will not
 be at the PCB East Conference, but will be in a Tokyo IEC meeting.  The
 EIA/IBIS committee plans to participate in the DAC98 Standards Booth.  The
 price/level of committment has not been determined since the possibility of
 having actual IBIS demonstrations means more booth space alocation.  This
 would also have to be considered in the budgeting discussions.

 INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS
 - 93/46/NP (IBIS Version 2.1) - Pattie Rusher will check the status at a
   meeting on August 21, 1997 prior to the Tokyo meeting.

 - 93/60/NP (IBIS Models and EMC Simulation) - Pattie will check the status
   at the Tokyo meeting through contacting Jean LeBrun, the IEC subcommittee
   chairman.

 - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs - Bob Ross reported no know progress,
   but based on the presentations at the IBIS Summit, we can expect another
   release in September along with a Package Committee release.  Fred Balistreri
   reports that simulation algorithms have been incorporated and some models
   have been developed.

 EDITING COMMITTEE 
 Stephen Peters reported no further progress on editing IBIS Version 3.0 for
 clarity since Bob Ross and Stephen were out.  Bob reviewed briefly that the
 intent was to make IBIS Version 3.0 more readable by considering doing the
 following:

    Table of Contents and Section/Chapter headings
    Consistency of Words as suggested by Ogawa-san of the EIAJ subcommittee
    Tree diagram
    BNF Syntax
    Some Cookbook details added.
    Clarifications (BIRD44, etc.)

 Bob and Stephan still plan a first pass to be put in the work in progress
 directory (wip).

 After this first pass is completed, several issues will be addressed:

    Format - Syed Huq feels that a format other than ASCII text such as Word,
             HTML, Postscript will allow better graphics and presentation
    Professional Support - Use a professional writer.
    Editing Meeting - Set up a committee for an all day meeting.

 The existing AR is still in effect and a new one is added for Stephen and Bob
 to generate a first pass editorial review copy.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 AR - Stephen Peters and Bob Ross generate an editorial revision of Version 3.0
 and place it in the eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory.

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER
 Four individuals responded to Stephen Peters' request for development posting.
 Bob Ross suggested that Stephen, Bob and Syed Huq review the candidates and
 issue a request for a bid regarding time/money based on the scope of the
 project.  Chris Rokusek emphasized that the development should start and be
 based on the existing ibischk2+ source code with some data checking messages.
 He also stated that the existing messages be retained because they are used
 in some system. 

 In response to a question, Bob stated that there is no further ibis_chk (for
 Version 1.1 or ibischk2+) development planned.  Bug8 deferred one correction
 that existed in all parsers until Version 3.0 development.

 Syed Huq brought up the fact that some of the candidates may need to review
 the source code to provide the bid.  Bob Ross agreed and would plan to 
 provide the source code for the purposes of providing a bid only.

 Mike Flora asked how to get the ibischk2+ source code and Bob responded that
 companies (such as Hyperlynx) who have paid for the licence can get it
 directly from Bob Ross or Chris Rokusek.

 AR - Bob Ross, Stephen Peters, and Syed Huq consider the candidates and issue
 a document for the selected candidates to provide a time/money bid for the 
 ibischk3 parser development project.

 LEGAL IBIS VERSION 3.0 FILES
 Chris Rokusek indicated that Jon Powell had concerns about the legality of
 producing IBIS Version 3.0 file with having a parser to validate them and
 without formal EIA ratification of IBIS Version 3.0.  This generated a long
 discussion and debate.  Some issues related to whether the files should be
 marked PRELIMINARY or EXPERIMENTAL in place of 3.0 for the [IBIS Ver]
 keyword.  Bob felt that the Version 3.0 format was official, so it is legal
 to generate IBIS Version 3.0 files.  However, the consensus of everyone was
 to support adding some warning/disclaimer text to alert the user that the
 files were not officially validated and could have syntax errors.

 One commentor stated that even with the IBIS Version 2.1 parser, half of the 
 public IBIS files have bad syntax or data.  Patti Rusher reviewed the
 anticipated steps to reach standardization - Version 3.1 with editorial 
 review and parser completion (hopefully), then submit to EIA for a 2 month
 letter ballot review.  Based on a successful review and response to the
 contents, EIA would then ratify the document as a new Standard.

 Chris indicated that Jon will post a note on the subject to clarify his
 position and initiate discussion.

 COOKBOOK
 Stephen Peters reported that he has not received any examples.  The AR's are
 still pending below.  He would use the examples and augment them with comments.
 Stephen also mentioned that Frank Kern plans to add a mostly tutorial section
 explaining the structure (IV, VT data) and its rationale with respect to
 using behavioral models.  

 Stephen raised the question whether the preliminary version of the Cookbook
 should be made available.  After some discussion, the concensus was that
 it is a very useful document even at this early stage.  We need clear
 indication that this is preliminary and updates should be tracked by version
 number. Two ARs were generated to for this to occur.  All existing example
 AR's are carried forward.

 AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
  Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1
  Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
  Stephen Peters - Example 3 

 AR - D.C Sessions.  Supply a paragraph or two explaining the best way to
 modify a SPICE transistor model to get realistic power and ground clamp 
 information

 AR - Bob Ross.  Supply the text for the section "Diode Transient Time Data"

 AR - Syed Huq.  Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
 I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".

 AR - Bob Ross submit an example of a Series MOSFET component.

 AR - Stephen Peters with Bob Ross put a copy of the Cookbook in the
 eda.org/pub/ibis/wip directory after appropriate Version number and 
 preliminary disclaimers are added.

 AR - Syed Huq provide a link to access the Cookbook document from the official
 EIA/IBIS Web Site when the Cookbook is uploaded.

 S2IBIS2 ISSUES (& NT)
 Bob Ross reported that the NT versions of s2ibis have not yet been put on
 the VeriBest Web site.  So the AR is still active.

 AR - Ian Dodd put s2ibis_ver1.3 and s2ibis_ver2.1 for Windows on the VeriBest
 Web site.

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Bob Ross summarized the status of BIRD42.3.  It was not approved at the June
 IBIS ratification meeting because of some controversial aspects.  There was no
 further discussion.  The AR is still considered open.

 AR - D.C. Sessions and Kumar get together and provide an example showing
 where the rising and falling waveform tables do not result in correct
 results.

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Bob Ross proposed that BIRD44 be put in the Editorial Committee portion of the
 Agenda since it is an editorial clarification.  As discussed at the previous
 meeting, the contents of BIRD44 will be taken into account as part of the
 first editorial pass of Version 3.0.  It will continue to remain open.

 SWITCHING TERMINATORS
 Arpad Muranyi has no further work in this area, but now has more time to work
 on it.

 In response to a question by Dave Baranauskas regarding whether this was an
 extension of the IBIS scope, Arpad indicated that the funtionality was not for
 a new type of terminator, but was for some internal I/O buffer electrical
 characterization that is new.  (Some overview discussions are on the FTP sight
 under summits for the January 1997 IBIS Open Forum Summit meeting.)

 MISCELLANEOUS DISCUSSION
 The technical content of the meeting was concluded ahead of schedule.  Bob
 Ross opened the meeting up to discussions and questions on all subjects.

 As indicated above, the presentations of several previous IBIS Summits where
 the focus was primarily information presentations are available at the eda.org
 site (same as vhdl.org): http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits.  They are also
 available using anonymous FTP at this location.

 The BIRD (Buffer Issue Resolution Document) process was reviewed by Bob and
 Arpad Muranyi as the method used by the committee to revise the standard.
 A key aspect is that we will argue solid proposals based on the wording of
 the proposed revision.  BIRDs go through revisions based on the discussions.
 They are available from the eda.org/pub/ibis/birds site and through other
 links.

 Dave Baranauksas asked for more details on the French IBIS Modeling and EMC
 proposal and Bob responded that he was seeking details as well.

 Dave also asked about the EIAJ III work since he had received the synopsys
 document from Fred Balistreri.  Bob and other discussed aspects of this
 proposal including the fact the transistor devices were based on the source
 table information.  This is more accurate than the (arbitrary level) equation
 data, but does not give some parameter sensitivites (such as temperature)
 that are taken into account in the assumed equations.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is on Friday, September 5, 1997, 8:00 A.M. to 9:55 A.M.
 following the Labor day weekend.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 603-2523, Fax (503) 639-3469
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix
	     10220 SW Nimbus Ave, K4, Portland, OR 97223

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
             M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
             Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       vhdl.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on vhdl.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================