Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 28 Aug 1998

From: Matthew Flora <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:36:53 +0000

DATE: 9/1/98

SUBJECT: 8/28/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
   
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
Applied Simulation Technology  Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram
Cadence Design (& UniCAD)      C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, 
                               Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway,
                               Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, 
                               Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis*,
                               Todd Westerhoff
Compaq                         Shariq Rahma, Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*,
  (Digital Equipment Corp.)    Bob Haller
Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory
High Design Technology         Razvan Ene
HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora*
Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson,
                               Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
  (& formerly NCR)             Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan,
                               Mohammed Hawana, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley
Mentor Graphics (Zeelan,       Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman,
  Interconnectix, etc.)        Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot,
                               Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, 
                               Neven Orhanovic, Mohamed Mahmoud
Mitsubishi                     Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         [Syed Huq], Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
                               Ikchang Song, Milt Schwartz
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
  (NESA)
NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Symbios Logic                  Larry Barnes
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
                               Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin,
                               Peter Forstner
Thomson-CSF                    Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic,
                               Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel,
                               Jean Lefebvre  
Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, 
                               Gary Mandel
VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas
VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions
Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
Actel                          Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin 
Aerospatiale                   Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet
Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.)   John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, 
                               Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau,
                               Daniel Peron
ALS Design                     Yves Mouquet
Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
Apple                          Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
Atmel                          Ali Baktashian
Avanti                         Nik Bannov
CERN                           Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, 
                               Rudi Zurbroken
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq*, Sergio Camerlo*, Irfan Elahi*
Crucial Technology             Rathna Reddy
EIA                            Patti Rusher
EMC                            Fawn Engelmann, Fabrizio Zanella*
ENST, Paris                    Jean-Jacques Charlot
European CAD Standardization   Adam Morawiec
  Intitiative (ECSI)
Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme
H.A.S Electronics              Haruny Said
IBM                            Richard Steinle, Kevin Jackson
Intracon Design Ltd.           Derek Laidlaw
Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen
Scottish Electronics           Robert Easson
  Manufacturing Center (SEMC)
Seagate                        Vanessa Howard
SGS-Thomson                    Philippe Lefevre
Siemens                        Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, 
                               Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez,
                               Gil Russell
Sun Microsystems               Lam Dong, Kevin Ko
Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
Tektronix                      Nassrin Ghahyasi
Ultratest International        Chris O'Connor
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
  
  Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
  September 18, 1998 (916) 356-9200    1-249623         2581644

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Syed Huq (past Vice-Chair and formerly of National Semiconductor) called in
from Cisco Systems.  He is now a signal integrity engineer involved with
ASIC design and working for Sergio Camerlo.

Sergio Camerlo is manager of the Signal Integrity and Packaging Group at
Cisco Systems.  He had followed IBIS while at Olivetti.  His group is now
very interested in using IBIS for their signal integrity work.

Irfan Elahi has been with Cisco Systems for nine months.  Irfan has years
of experience doing signal integrity analysis and getting and using IBIS 
models.  He is particularly interested in how IBIS will support connectors in
the future.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that Patti Rusher states no membership or financial
change.

Syed Huq stated that Cisco Systems plans to become a full IBIS Open Forum
member.  Syed plans to contact Patti to get an invoice.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
No corrections were noted.  The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq reports that the Roster has been updated.  He also solicited an
update to the roster information for Motorola from an additional contact at
Motorola.

Bob Ross stated that the August 17, 1998 issue of EE Times had a series of
articles on high-speed interconnects with an incidental mention of IBIS.  Ed
Sayre of the IBIS (East) Users Group was on the front page displaying his
"fiendish delight at uncovering knotty engineering problems".

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that Jon Powell plans to clean up the models directory
under eda.org/pub/ibis and remove old subdirectories.  Some older Intel 
models may be retained unless they are publicly available elsewhere on the 
Intel site.  Other models are obsolete or are superceded on company sites.

Also, the models link on the official EIA IBIS Web site has been down for
a while.  Bob is working with Jon on a possible alternative.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
None.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher reported to Bob Ross that the
  document has been moved to the ADVC (Draft Approved for Committee Draft
  With Vote).  This is another step leading to a ratification vote.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit 
  (IMIC) - Bob Ross mentioned that he might meet again with the committee
  chairman Dr. Hideki Fukuda in September, 1998 to discuss plans.

- IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross gave a brief report on a
  recent document he received titled "Electromagnetic Compatibility, Models
  of Integrated Circuits for EMI Simulation".  This document is to be   
  circulated to the IEC National Committees as a new NWIP (new work item
  proposal) replacing the IEC 93/67/NP.  Its scope is to propose a concept
  study and behavioral models for simulation of electromagnetic compatibility
  in emission and susceptibility.

  The objective is to account for the total electrical activity of an 
  integrated circuit including internal core activity, input/output signal
  transitions, power supply dynamic currents, and package parasitic elements.

  Its philosophy is to produce a separate file compatible with IBIS, with the 
  same syntax in an ASCII format.  It must be open to evolution and have
  elements accessible through measurement.

  The document introduces some concepts and proposes some architectures for
  emission and susceptibility models.  However, it needs to be verified and
  optimized.

- JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross stated that the joint
  meeting is still planned for Wednesday, December 9, 1998 in San Diego with
  the JEDEC JC-42 and JC-16 meetings.  Bob expects the initial details will
  be sent out after the next IBIS telephone meeting.

- IEEE Standard Component Data Sheet - No report.  Matthew Flora reminded Bob 
  Ross of this agenda item.  Bob stated that he is keeping this as an agenda
  item since Stephen Peters may contact Bob Davis, Chair of the committee to 
  call in to one of our meetings.

IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS
Greg Edlund reported on the Accuracy subcommittee meeting held on Thursday,
August 27, 1998 at Stratus Computer.  The first draft is about one-half  
complete.  The test board is in the PC shop and is expected to be completed
shortly.  The plan is to prepare a DesignCon paper and also an IBIS Summit
presentation in February, 1999.

Fabrizio Zanella reported on the Connector group activities.  The group has
been meeting regularly with representation from connector companies AMP,
Teradyne, Berg, and Molex.  Also Ansoft and Hyperlynx are contributing.
Kellee Chrisafulli is drafting a BIRD for both single and coupled lines.
The intent is that connector models have a separate .con file.  The BIRD
may propose a self-contained document.  The subgroup hopes to complete the
activity by the end of the year.  They are concerned about funding for parser
extensions.

Fabrizio gave a few details of the thinking for the BIRD.  It would cover
three-dimensional extensions and handle 1000 pins.  However, it is based
on using smaller sections and only the significant next pin coupling.

Bob Ross mentioned that if the subgroup wishes, they could send out minutes 
on the IBIS reflectors.  Arpad Muranyi asked if coupled matrices were already
supported and Bob responded that a single stage of coupled LCR is supported
for package models in IBIS Version 2.1

Bob Ross stated that the next IBIS Users group meeting has been rescheduled
from Thursday, August 20, 1998 to Thursday, September 3, 1998 at Stratus
Computer.

OCTOBER 15, 1998 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING PLANS
Bob Ross reported that Kathy Breda is coordinating the arrangements.  The
first meeting notice has been sent out calling for presentations, signups,
sponsors, and providing meeting details.  The meeting will be held at the 
Boxboro Holiday Inn (where the first IBIS Users Group meeting was held).
It is scheduled all day, and lunch and refreshments will be provided.

A two hour IBIS tutorial developed by NESA and TriLogic will be given for
review and feedback.

Greg Edlund will give a report on the IBIS Accuracy progress for discussion.
Fabrizio Zanella will report on the Connector specification status.  Bob
Ross mentioned that he might give a presentation on using Spice to validate
IBIS extensions.  Arpad Muranyi expressed interest in the Accuracy issue.

Bob noted that this meeting will be held at the same time as the PCB
Conference East nearby in Marborough, Massachusetts.  All of the face-to-face 
meetings are held with other meetings of interest to IBIS members since many 
IBIS participants will be in attendance anyway.  Syed Huq asked about an IBIS 
tutorial at the PCB Conference.  Bob noted that it will be conducted the same 
day as the IBIS meeting.

Bob mentioned that Kathy may have a magazine to co-sponsor the meeting.  She
sent out letters to three other companies to co-sponsor (share the expenses
for meeting rental, lunch and refreshments, etc.).

Another notice will go out to get participation commitments.

EDITING COMMITTEE 
No Report.  The editing committee BNF AR remains.

AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).

IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.17) PROGRESS
Bob Ross reported that the source code was delivered.  Chris Rokusek compiled
(during the meeting) the executables.

All bugs except BUG25 and new BUGS29-31 are included in this version.  This
release supports the official ANSI/EIA-656 standard or IBIS Version 2.1.

[Bob uploaded the executables after the meeting, per AR, on eda.org under
/pub/ibis/ibschk2+.]

Since Syed is now with a company that has not purchased the parser, Bob
mentioned that he might consider loaning him the source code to get Linux 
executables.

VERSION 3.1/3.2 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
Bob Ross reported that Version 3.1 source code was distributed to those who
funded the parser.

Chris Rokusek compiled the executables during the meeting.  Similar to the
ibischk2+ version, BUG25 and new BUGS29-31 were not included.  Bob explained
that he did not want to hold up the release of executables for BUG25, but
that it would be worked on for the ibischk3, Version 3.2

Bob reported that Atul Agarwal plans to deliver the parser during the third
or fourth week of September, 1998.  He listed several minor errors to the
BIRDS being incorporated.  Bob corrected the errors in a work in progress
ver3_2b.ibs specification which will be uploaded later.

[The new ibischk3 executables have been uploaded to eda.org under /pub/ibis/
ibischk3.

COOKBOOK
No report. 

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported that he thinks Motorola will submit a model for 
review.  The list of companies still includes Cadence, HyperLynx, Incases, 
Mentor Graphics, Viewlogic, and Veribest.  Matthew said that he needs to
send a note to the reflector.  His contact address is repeated below:

  Matthew Flora, HyperLynx                   [email-masked]

AR - Matthew Flora issue to the IBIS reflector a short writeup on the IBIS
IBIS Model Review committee.

BIRD53 - 
Geoffrey Ellis summarized BIRD53 by stating that it basically limited the
line terminators to those supported by UNIX (linefeed) and DOS (carriage
return, line feed).  Geoffrey noted that the 8-bit international character
sets supported other terminators.  Geoffrey listed a number of problems that
could occur if the terminator set were extended.  These included inability
to print the file, and the inability in some systems to recognize certain
terminators.  Sun Unix systems can process the international character
sets, but the involves setting a new environment variable.

Geoffrey supported the limitation as a practical restriction for EDA 
vendors.  Bob Ross asked for the opinions of other EDA vendor participants.
Chris Rokusek agreed with the limitation.  Bob also supported this
limitation because a subset of capability provides a file that is most
easily used by everyone.  Matthew Flora also supported this position.  Olaf
Rethmeier presented a European perspective that EDA vendors must consider
the US market.  So he also supported BIRD53.

Matthew raised some concerns on the wording of the BIRD53 changes.  The
reference to C language \n and \n\r characters was unnecessary.  Also, it was
not clear whether the character set limitation applied to just terminators or
to all characters.  Arpad Muranyi noted that other developers might want to
include comments in their native languages.  However, the information
might be garbled when processed using another character set.  Bob noted that
he wanted BIRD53 to focus only on the termination issue.  In practice the
comment and text characters are not a real issue.  Matthew noted that the
text of BIRD53 could be interpreted narrowly to include limiting comments
in native languages.

Bob indicated that the general consensus was to approve BIRD53.  However,
the wording details needed to be resolved.  Matthew and Geoffry should work
out the acceptable language and issue BIRD53.1 for a vote at the next
meeting.

AR - Geoffrey Ellis and Matthew Flora to work out the technical wording
changes for accuracy and clarity and submit BIRD 53.1 by Friday,
September 4, 1998 so that it can be voted on at the next meeting.

BUG29 - \n, \r. \r\n Line Terminators Need to be Handled
Bob Ross indicated that based on the sense of the committee, BUG29 will be
closed with Will Not Fix.  (This will be finalized if BIRD53.1 is approved.)

BUG30 - [Pin Mapping] Checks are too Simplistic
Bob Ross noted that Atul Agarwal plans to include a fix to BUG30 in the
next ibischk3 parser release.  The current set of tests do not look at
the bus connection restrictions that are documented in the specification.

BUG31 - Error for [Pulldown] Decreasing Current Should be Warning
Bob Ross had some concerns about some of the data in BUG31.  However, he
deferred discussion since he had not looked at the details.  So the action
remains to research BUG31 further before proposing any change to the ibischk3
parser.

INPUT ENHANCEMENTS
Bob Ross briefly noted that input specification enhancements are possible
by adding subparameters to the [Model Spec] keyword.  He noted that comments
have appeared occasionally over the past year on subparameters.  Also some
new Input parameters for duration during input transition are needed.

There have been several reflector comments on the need for more additional
specification parameters in the last year.  Bob noted that all [Model]
subparameters could be expressed in a typ-min-max format under [Model Spec],
similar to Vinh and Vinl.

Bob also noted that some more advanced input considerations relate to SSO
(as suggested by D.C. Sessions) might be included later as a Version 4.X 
enhancement.

Bob noted that he might propose a BIRD on this.  However, such a BIRD could
be disruptive for those vendors implementing IBIS Version 3.1 functionality.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be on Friday, September 18, 1998 from 8:00 AM to 
10:00 AM.  BIRD53.1 is scheduled for a vote.
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-56
            2111 NE 25th Ave. 
            Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            17641 NE 67th Court
            Redmond, WA 98052

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
            1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================