Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 7 Aug 1998

From: Matthew Flora <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 14:56:59 +0000

DATE: 8/11/98

SUBJECT: 8/7/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
   
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
Applied Simulation Technology  Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*
Cadence Design (& UniCAD)      C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, 
                               Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway,
                               Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, 
                               Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis*,
                               Todd Westerhoff*
Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund, Bob Haller
Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory
High Design Technology         Razvan Ene
HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora*
Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson,
                               Werner Rissiek
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
  (& formerly NCR)             Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan,
                               Mohammed Hawana, Martin Chang, Dave Moxley
Mentor Graphics (Zeelan,       Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman,
  Interconnectix, etc.)        Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot,
                               Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, 
                               Neven Orhanovic, Mohamed Mahmoud
Mitsubishi                     Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
                               Ikchang Song, Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
  (NESA)
NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Symbios Logic                  Larry Barnes
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
                               Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*,
                               Peter Forstner
Thomson-CSF                    Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic,
                               Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel,
                               Jean Lefebvre  
Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh, 
                               Gary Mandel
VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas
VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions*
Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
Actel                          Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin 
Aerospatiale                   Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet
Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.)   John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, 
                               Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau,
                               Daniel Peron
ALS Design                     Yves Mouquet
Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
Apple                          Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
Atmel                          Ali Baktashian
Avanti                         Nik Bannov
CERN                           Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, 
                               Rudi Zurbroken
Compaq                         Shariq Rahma
Crucial Technology             Rathna Reddy
EIA                            Patti Rusher*
EMC                            Fawn Engelmann, Fabrizio Zanella
ENST, Paris                    Jean-Jacques Charlot
European CAD Standardization   Adam Morawiec
  Intitiative (ECSI)
Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme
H.A.S Electronics              Haruny Said
IBM                            Richard Steinle, Kevin Jackson
Intracon Design Ltd.           Derek Laidlaw
Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen
Scottish Electronics           Robert Easson
  Manufacturing Center (SEMC)
Seagate                        Vanessa Howard
SGS-Thomson                    Philippe Lefevre
Siemens                        Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, 
                               Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez,
                               Gil Russell
Sun Microsystems               Lam Dong, Kevin Ko
Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
Tektronix                      Nassrin Ghahyasi
Ultratest International        Chris O'Connor
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
  
  Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
  August 28, 1998    (916) 356-9200    2-264211         2623135
  September 18, 1998 (916) 356-9200    1-249623         2581644

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Todd Westerhoff from Cadence is a Product Marketing Manager for high speed
design and is working with IBIS models in the products.

Milt Schwartz of National Semiconductor is working with Syed Huq on IBIS
model development and validation for new products.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher reported all payments have been received.  There are no 
membership updates.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
No corrections were noted.  The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq reported some EIA IBIS Home Page updates including a link to IBIS
Version 3.1 and roster updates for National Semiconductor and Zuken-Redac.

Bob Ross reported that the article "Board-level Signal-integrity Analysis:
Sooner is Better" by Jim Lipman, in the July 16, 1998 issue of EDN, pp. 83-94
talks about simulator products and contains plenty of references to IBIS.

Also, Bob mentioned the article "Integrated Simulation Technicque Pinpoints
Signal Interconnection Problems up Front" by Stan Harris and Ted Lin in the
July 1998 issue of Computer Design mentions IBIS.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that IBIS models for Lucent Technologies FPGAs are at:

  http://www.lucent.com/micro/fpga/ibis.html

Also, Actel has buffer models at

  http://www.actel.com/user/ibis/IBIS.html

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross: BUG30 - [Pin Mapping] Checks are too Simplistic
Bob Ross: BUG31 - Error for [Pulldown] Decreasing Current Should be Warning

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher expects action at the IEC
  meeting in September, 1998 in London.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit 
  (IMIC) - Raj Raghuram had no further progress report at this time, but
  possibly will have more information at the next meeting.

- IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Jean Claude Perrin reported that a
  new document has been submitted to the secretary in Paris for distribution
  and for review at the September IEC meeting in London.

- JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - D.C. Sessions had no further
  report.  Patti Rusher reported the resolution of a JEDEC, Compact Modeling
  Council and EIA/EIG scope statement issue regarding what appeared to be
  overlapping scopes.  The scope statements of other groups involved software
  and CAD development.  The resolution clarified roles and involved no change
  in the IBIS Committee positioning under EIA/EIG.

- IEEE Standard Component Data Sheet - No report.  Bob Ross noted that
  Stephen Peters is monitoring the activity and Bob Davis of the IEEE 
  committee has been invited to phone in.

IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS
Bob Ross stated that the next meeting is scheduled on Thursday, August 20,
1998 at Stratus Computer.

IBIS SUMMIT MEETINGS PLANS
Bob Ross listed the IBIS Summit Meetings planned through mid-next year:

  PCB CONFERENCE EAST
  Thursday, October 15, 1998
  Stratus Computer,
  Marlborough, Massachusetts.
  Coordinator: Kathy Breda of NESA
    Initial Details and a Call for Papers will be sent out next week.  Focus
    will be on IBIS Accuracy and Validation, Connectors, and IBIS Tutorial.
  PCB Conference (Royal Plaza Trade Center) October 12-16, 1998
  URL:  http://www/pcbdcon.com/pcbeast

  AR - Bob Ross and Kathy Breda send out initial details of meeting.

  JEDEC JC16.2 Joint Meeting with IBIS (and JC42 Meeting December 7-9, 1998)
  IBIS SUMMIT: Wednesday, December 9, 1998
               Kona Kai Continental Hotel
               San Diego, CA
  URL for JC42 Schedule: http://www.jedec.org

  DESIGNCON99 (February 1-4, 1999)
  IBIS SUMMIT: Monday, February 1, 1999
               Westin Hotel
               Santa Clara, CA
  DesignCon Location: Santa Clara Convention Center, Santa Clara, CA
  DesignCon URL: http://designcon.com

  DATE99 - (Design Automation and Test in Europe, March 9-12. 1999)
  IBIS SUMMIT: Friday, March 12, 1999
               Astron Hotel
               Munich, Germany
  PCB Symposium: Thursday, March 11, 1999 at DATE99 Location
  DATE99 Site: International Congress Center, Munich, Germany
  DATE99 URL: http://www.date-conference.com 

  DAC99 (Design Automation Conference June 21-25, 1999)
  IBIS SUMMIT: Thursday, June 24, 1999
               Location to be determined
               New Orleans, Louisiana
  DAC99 Location"  Ernest N. Morial Convention Center, New Orleans, LA.
  DAC URL: http://www.dac.com
    Note, D.C. Sessions stated that Monday may be a better day to hold the
    IBIS meeting and also visit the show.  Bob Ross stated that Monday may
    also be better for him to avoid conflict with some personal plans.

EDITING COMMITTEE 
No Report.  The editing committee BNF AR remains.

AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version
3.0 ratification AR).

IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.16) PROGRESS
Matthew Flora reported that he and Chris Rokusek sent the ibischk2+ source
code to Atul Agarwal.  However it is not clear who is doing the ibischk2+
upgrade to Version 2.1.16 with the fixes that have been implemented in 
ibischk3, Version 3.1.0.  Matthew thought that he and Chris would make the
changes.  The AR remains unchanged.

AR - Matthew Flora, Chris Rokusek, and Bob Ross work together to (1) add all
of the changes done in the ibischk3 code relative to bug fixes to the
ibischk2+ source code, (2) Chris Rokusek generate executables, (3) and Bob
Ross upload the executables on eda.org.  Also, Syed Huq will generate a Linux
executable.

Syed Huq asked if the ibischk2 executables would be obsoleted with the release
of ibischk3.  Bob Ross responded that the executables would still be made
available.

Matthew Flora asked if the ibischk2+ version 2.1.16 release is necessary since
the fixes for ibischk2+ are in the ibischk3 release.  Bob responded that we
want to make a final release ibischk2+ to include the 10 or so bug fixes.  We
are still supporting IBIS Version 2.1 (still the official ANSI/EIA-656
version) and are still offering the source code license to its parser.

VERSION 3.1/3.2 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
Patti Rusher reported that all of the parser payments have been received.
Bob Ross reported that the wire transfer of payment has been completed to
Atul Agarwal.

Bob also reported that Atul will provide latest Version 3.1.0 file this week
with integrated ibischk2+ code received from Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek.
In response to a question from Syed Huq, Bob noted that the group will 
produce and upload a number of executables for free distribution on eda.org.

Atul is looking at the BIRDs for ibischk3 Version 3.2.0 and will send a list
of questions for clarification to Bob Ross.

COOKBOOK
No report. 

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora reported no activity since last meeting.  He still plans to
send out a note to the reflector.  His contact address is repeated below:

  Matthew Flora, HyperLynx                   [email-masked]

AR - Matthew Flora issue to the IBIS reflector a short writeup on the IBIS
IBIS Model Review committee.

BUG29 - \n, \r. \r\n Line Terminators Need to be Handled
Geoffrey Ellis mentioned that IBIS files may exist with the following line
termination formats: LF, CR/LF and CR.  Bob Ross asked and Geoffrey
responded that LF was typical in UNIX data and CR/LF in DOS data.  CR has
also appeared in data, but the group did not know where those files
originated.  Geoffrey noted that the CR termination files can be imported
into Word 7.0 and then saved as .txt files to convert the CR to CR/LF.

Bob noted Chris Rokusek has been in contact with the vendor providing the
data, and the vendor plans to change the file.  Bob was concerned that the
if the ibischk3 parser were upgraded, it might report as good some IBIS
files that some commercial products may not be able to read (without the
commercial products being modified).  So while fixing BUG29 may be a good
idea, it may have practical implications.

Geoffrey noted that the IBIS document does not specify the appropriate
terminations.  So a BIRD is needed to clarify what line are acceptable in
IBIS files.

Bob classified BUG29 as an Enhancement, Low priority, and Open.

The action, however, is for Geoffrey to introduce a BIRD to explicitly state
the acceptable IBIS file terminations.  Bob noted that a statement could be
proposed in Section 3, General Syntax Rules and Guidelines as item 14.  In
issuing the BIRD, Geoffrey could state either the two or three methods above,
but the IBIS Forum would decide what to accept.

AR - Geoffrey Ellis create a BIRD regarding the acceptable line terminations
in IBIS files.  [Done - issued as BIRD53]

No action will be taken on BUG29 at this time.  How BUG29 is handled will 
depend on how the proposed BIRD is resolved.

BUG30 - [Pin Mapping] Checks are too Simplistic
Bob Ross introduced BUG30 that was generated by Atul Agarwal.  Bob indicated
that the ibischk2+ and ibischk3 parsers do not test for some simple bus
name limitations under [Pin Mapping] that exist in the IBIS document.  Atul
listed the proposed checks to see that the [Pin Mapping] tables contained 
meaningful entries (e.g., the power bus connections to a pin are also
attached to the power pin.)

Bob classified this as an Enhancement, Medium priority, and Open.

Bob felt that Atul could implement the fix, but on a lower priority basis
than for the Version 3.2 extensions on the IBIS parser.  (Bob suspects that
the fix will not take a long time.)

BUG31 - Error for [Pulldown] Decreasing Current Should be Warning
Bob Ross introduced BUG31 that was issued by John Keifer (of Intel).   Bob
summarized the problem that while BUG31 referred to a specific device,
the general problem is that some devices now have clamps for I/O and 3-state
devices that appear only in the Non-Driving mode.  The recommended way for
IBIS Version 2.1 level files to deal with this situation is to put in a
compensating current in the [Pulldown] and [Pullup] tables so that the
summation of the clamping currents and these tables will produce a summed
table without the clamping effects.  However, these compensating currents
creates non-monotonic tables and also may cause the endpoints of the table
to fail the ibischk2+ polarity test.  BUG31 proposes that the reported Error
be changed to a Warning.  The IBIS model should function in most simulators
since the summation of currents tables is still monotonic.

Matthew Flora questioned whether the "monotonicity" test in ibischk2+ tests
tables individually, point-by-point, or just looks at the endpoints as Bob
stated.  Bob mentioned that this needs to be checked.  (The endpoint test
exists and reports an ERROR such as [Pulldown] has Decreasing Current.  A
point-by-point monotonicity test also exists which reports a WARNING for any
non-monotonic data in any table.  BUG31 is concerned with the endpoint test.)

After studying the example file in BUG31, Bob was not sure that the data was
not actually bad.  So the particular BUG31 problem needs to be researched
further.

Bob noted that the IBIS Specification itself prescribes reporting an ERROR
if the endpoint test fails.

Bob classified BUG31 as an Enhancement, Medium, and Open.  However, it needs
further research before we precede on it.   The proposed resolution may
require issuing a BIRD to change the specification.

So the action is to research BUG31 further before deciding whether to change
the ibischk3 parser.

INPUT ENHANCEMENTS
As a continuation of the discussion at the last meeting, D.C. Sessions
briefly reintroduced the need of more Input information detail as the
semiconductor technologies are advancing.  Plenty of detail exists for
output buffer specifications.  Details of input specifications are needed
such as thresholds as a percentage of Vcc, how to deal with flat spots
at the input, etc.  D.C. mentioned equations, as a possibility.

Todd Westerhoff shared some of his experiences on these issues, especially
with Pentium Pro input characterization.  Stephen Peters gave some background
that some of the input rules were derived from a large number of Spice
simulation results.  The rules do relate to energy limits under the curve.

D.C. discussed ground bounce SSO interactions as an emerging issue.  Bob Ross
noted that how this is handled may take time to resolve and is a candidate
for IBIS Version 4.0 extensions - as discussed at the IBIS Summit Meeting on
June 18, 1998.  Todd's discussion involved some specification extensions
that do not include SSO interactions.

Todd plans to comment on the issue on the IBIS reflector and search for 
possible reference documents on the internet.  Much of the basis for a
possible extension is already contained in published data books.

Bob noted that while the functionality of IBIS Version 3.2 has been decided,
a few additions to the [Model Spec] keyword could be added if they are done
quickly.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be on Friday, August 28, 1998 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
(BIRD53 is scheduled for a vote.)
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-56
            2111 NE 25th Ave. 
            Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            17641 NE 67th Court
            Redmond, WA 98052

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
            1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================