Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 2/13

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:18:41 -0800

DATE: 2/20/98

 SUBJECT: 2/13/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
   
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
 Applied Simulation Technology  Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram*
 Cadence Design & UniCAD        C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, 
				Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway
 Cypress                        (Bruce Wenniger)
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu*, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller
 Hewlett Packard 
   EEsof                        Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu
   Boise                        Paul Gregory
 High Design Technology         (Razvan Ene)
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora*
 Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern
   Columbia, SC (formerly NCR)  Dave Moxley*
 Mentor Graphics                Mark Noneman
   Interconnectix               Bob Ross*
   Zeelan Technology            George Opsahl, Tom Dagostino
 Mitsubishi                     Tam Cao
 Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
				Ikchang Song
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
				Vincent Chang
 Thomson-CSF/SCTF               (Jean LeBrun)
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek* 
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd
 VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apple                          Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Compaq                         Shariq Rahma
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 EMC                            Fawn Engelmann
 Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme
 NESA                           Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
 North Carolina State U.        (Michael Steer)
 Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen*
 Seagate                        Vanessa Howard
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tektronix                      Nassrin Ghahyasi
 Ultratest International        Chris O'Connor
 Xilinx                         Susan Wu

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
   
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   February 26, 1998   EUROPEAN EIA IBIS SUMMIT - NO BRIDGE
   March 13, 1998     (916) 356-9200    5-23353          2913463

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 No new participants.

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 No report.  Bob Ross mentioned that Patti Rusher had issued invoices to
 attendees at the EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting on January 26, 1998

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 Bob Ross has done minor editorial spelling correction on some previous
 minutes.  The Mitsubishi name is corrected in the January 26, 1998 Minutes.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has
 time.  In the last few days there was intermittent ftp access to eda.org due
 to a hacker attack and security hole.  This has been resolved.

 Matthew Flora announced that a new version of the IBIS Visual Editor will
 be made available as soon as the HyperLynx system administrator uploads it.
 It has minor corrections and an updated version of ibischk2+.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Syed Huq reported that the Digital logo and links are on the Poster page of 
the
 EIA IBIS Home Page.  The Model Provider Link was removed since the list is not
 being maintained.

 Bob Ross reported that he will present "IBIS Modeling Tips and Advances" at 
the
 PCB Design Conference West in Santa Clara, March 23-26, 1998.

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 None reported.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Bob Ross on BUG23 - An Empty [Pullup], [Pulldown] with Waveform Table Crashes
 Stephen Peters on the Model Review Committee 

 INTERNATIONAL PROGRESS

 - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross reported that he has no new 
   information on the status. 

 - EIAJ III (I/O Interface Model for ICs) - Bob reported that the EIAJ
   subcommittee plans to have a web site in early March with access to 
   Version 1.0 of the document, which is being translated into English.

 - IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob reported that a meeting of national experts
   has been set up in Paris on Friday, February 27, 1998.  Bob is the US
   representative.  Other national representatives are invited from England,
   France, Germany, Denmark, and Italy.  This meeting is conducted under
   IEC TC93/WG5.  The French group will make a report at the European IBIS
   Summit on IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status.

 IBIS EAST MEETING
 Greg Edlund reported on the IBIS User's Group meeting held Thursday, February
 12, 1998 at EMC.  The DesignCon EIA IBIS Summit Meeting was reviewed.  Greg
 also mentioned that Paul Galloway has been giving brief tutorials on IBIS
 keywords.  The IBIS East committee is working on establishing a Web Site
 for material they are collecting.   One participant suggested that a one-day
 crash course on IBIS would be useful.  Ed Sayre would be interested in setting
 up such a course and would have others contribute to it.  Stephen Peters and
 others expressed interest in such a course.  The next meeting is scheduled
 on Thursday, March 19, 1998 for 3 PM to 5 PM.

 DESIGNCON98 IBIS SUMMIT
 The EIA IBIS Summit Meeting was held on Monday, January 26, 1998 at the 
 Santa Clara Convention Center and just before the DesignCon show.  Syed Huq
 reported that many of the presentations at the EIA IBIS Summit have been
 uploaded on eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/jan98.  The Summit was very successful
 with 49 people attending and with many good presentations.

 Bob Ross thanked Syed for handling the arrangements and National Semiconductor
 for sponsoring the meeting.

 DESIGNCON98
 The DesignCon presentations on Tuesday, January 27, 1998 in the Signal
 Integrity track involved IBIS model issues.  These were well attended.  Syed
 reported that the panel on How Good are IBIS Models? turned out well.  The
 moderator, Jim Lipmann of EDN Magazine, did not have to ask any questions,
 and the question/answer session continued even after Jim left.

 Bob noted that Greg Edlund and Bob Haller of Digital (along with Mentor
 Graphics for sponsoring the booth) got the best Demo Booth Award at the show.

 Bob also noted that Margery Conner of the DesignCon98 committee was very
 helpful in working with us and getting IBIS listed as a DesignCon98 sponsor.

 DATE98 (DESIGN AUTOMATION AND TEST IN EUROPE) IBIS SUMMIT
 The DATE98 Conference will be held Monday thru Thursday, February 23-26, 1998
 in Paris France.  Several IBIS and PCB Design related activities are 
 scheduled.
 
 The DATE Conference itself is the continuation of EuroDAC (with EuroVHDL)
 and ED&TC (EDAC, ETC, and EuroASIC).  More information is available at:

   http://www.date-conference.com

 - PCB Symposium - Wednesday, February 25, 1998
 Bob Ross reported that seven EDA companies (Cadence, Incases, Mentor
 Graphics, VeriBest, Viewlogic, Xynetix, and Zuken-Redac) are co-sponsors of
 a vender-neutral (i.e., no product promotion), informative, all-day event.  
 Bob outlined the currently planned program which is scheduled from 10:00 AM 
 to 4:00 PM:

   10:00: Opening Address, Lutz Treutler of the FED
   10:15: Viewlogic, Guy DeBurgh
   10:45: Mentor Graphics, Bob Ross
   11:15: Xynetix, Andrew Jones 
   11:45: Incases, Torsten Maeser and Werner Rissiek
   12:15: Buffet Luncheon
   1:30:  VeriBest, David Weins
   2:00:  Cadence, Paul Galloway
   2:30:  Zuken-Redac, Anthony Cutler
   3:00:  Round Table Discussion

 The Round Table Discussion will have representatives from several EDA 
 companies and also former EIA IBIS Open Forum Chair.  Will Hobbs.  

 - European IBIS Summit - Thursday, February 26, 1998
 Bob reported that about 41 people have signed up so far, and he is looking
 for about 45 to 50.  The meeting is hosted by Cadence. High Design Technology,
 (HDT) and Mentor Graphics.  There are about 14 possible presentations.  Bob
 presented a tentative schedule, and the one shown below with updates after
 the meeting is still tentative.  Some last minute confirmations are still
 needed.

			      PRELIMINARY AGENDA
			 EUROPEAN IBIS SUMMIT MEETING
			      February 26, 1998
				Paris, France

 8:30   REFRESHMENTS

 9:00   Welcome, IBIS Activities
        Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA 
       
 9:25   IBIS Users Group
        Paul Galloway, Cadence, USA

 9:45   Use of IBIS in Alcatel
        John Fitzpatrick, Alcatel, France

 10:25  IBIS Model Development at National Semiconductor Corporation
        Syed Huq, National Semiconductor, USA
 
 10:45  BREAK

 11:00  IBIS, Measurements vs Spice
        Tom Dagostino, Zeelan Technology/Mentor Graphics, USA
 
 11:30  Required IBIS Enhancements
        Gerald Bannert, Siemens, Germany
	       
 12:00  Challenges in Using IBIS in High Frequency Applications
        Prakash Radhakrishnan, Intel, USA                  

 12:30  LUNCH

 13:30  IBIS Models and EMC Simulation Standardization Status
        Christian Marot, Siemens, France

 14:00  IBIS and Radiation Analysis (Incases)
        Werner Rissiek, Incases, Germany

 14:30  IBIS Models for EMC and High-Frequency Devices
        Razvan Ene, High Design Technology, Italy

 15:15  BREAK

 15:30  SI-Analysis with HSPICE Based on IBIS Behavioral Models
        Bernhard Unger, Siemens, Germany

 16:00  Problems in V-T Curve Modeling and Simulation
        C. Kumar, Cadence, USA

 16:30  BIRD42.3 Algorithm Considerations
        Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics, USA

 16:45  GROUP DISCUSSION
        Technical Comments
        IBIS Usage Comments
        Questions About the EIA IBIS Open Forum
        Forming a European IBIS Users Group

 17:00  ADJOURN

 S2IBIS2
 Bob Ross mentioned that the VeriBest AR for an NT version of s2ibis2 is
 dropped because VeriBest cannot commit someone to do this as originally
 planned.  Bob asked Matthew Flora if he would check whether HyperLynx would be
 interested in the doing the conversion.  Bob also mentioned that another
 person that may be willing to make public his implementation. 

 EDITING COMMITTEE
 Bob Ross reported that he still plans to put an unofficial IBIS ver3_1b.ibs
 update in the  /pub/ibis/wip directory of eda.org to correct some editorial
 errors and also to deal with the [End Electrical Description] and [End Board
 Description] nomenclature inconsistency and other issues reported by Atul
 Agarwal.

 The BNF AR remains.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (and IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Bob Ross opened the discussion on BIRD44 which was submitted just prior to
 the June 1997 IBIS Summit meeting by Andy Ingraham.  BIRD44 proposes 
 changing the min and max column headings for certain keywords to slow/weak
 and fast/strong for IV tables and [Temperature Range], and also to slow and
 fast for [Ramp] and Waveform tables.  This would apply only to the comment
 lines that are used for column headings and to any related discussion in the 
 Specification.

 After a general discussion at the last teleconference meeting, Bob listed
 options for IBIS Version 3.1 implementation.  These included (1) reject (do
 nothing), (2) add a note (which most did not favor), (3) adopt, (4) adopt
 with revision such as standardizing on just slow/weak and strong/fast for all
 of the revised headings to show correlation, and (5) adopt with a combined
 syntax such as min-slow/weak, max-fast/strong for maximum consistency.

 The group discussed and reviewed the options and favored pursuing (4).  Bob
 also wanted BIRD44 to include the additional Version 3.0 keywords and sub-
 parameters that might be changed since BIRD44 was written before Version 3.0
 ratification and discussed only Version 2.1 keywords and subparameters.  The
 committee would need agreement on how the changes apply to all of the Version
 3.0 keywords and subparameters before asking for a vote.

 Bob suggested that he ask the author, Andy Ingraham, to make the changes.

 AR - Bob Ross request Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes noted
 above.  [Done]

 IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.115) PROGRESS
 Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek reported that ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 
 which incorporated BUG20 and BUG21 fixes was completed and its executables
 were put on eda.org/pub/ibis/ibischk2+.  Matthew asked Bob Ross if the DOS32
 executable was posted, and Bob confirmed that it was, but forgot to send out
 a notice.  So the AR regarding posting ibischk2+ Version 2.1.15 was completed.

 BUG22 - Empty [Rising Waveform] of [Falling Waveform] Causes Crash
 BUG23 - An Empty [Pullup], [Pulldown] with Waveform Table Crashes
 BUG22 and BUG23 were discussed together.  Atul Agarwal reported these
 crashes.  Matthew Flora stated that BUG22 was similar to BUG10 and that
 the fix was easy.  Similarly, Chris Rokusek knew how to fix BUG23.  

 Bob Ross classified both these BUGs as Severe and Medium because they both
 relate to ibischk2+ crashes.  Bob also noted that these BUGs have appeared
 in the ibischk2 Version 2.1.11 release, so they have been in the system for
 a long time.  Such as set of fixes would go into ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16.
 Chris suggested that the executables for Version 2.1.16 be done in several
 months since the process of generating executable is time consuming.  Also
 other new bugs may need to be corrected in this release.

 However, the solutions to the problems need to be communicated to Atul to
 be put into the ibischk3 code.

 So the action is for Matthew to communicate the solution to BUG22 to Atul,
 and Chris to communicate the solution to BUG23.  Both will maintain an
 updated pending ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16, but will not issue executables
 at this time.

 AR - Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek communicate the fixes to Atul Agarwal
 for BUG22 and BUG23.  [Done]

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 Bob Ross got commitments from Hewlett-Packard EEsof and VeriBest to join
 the ibischk3 funding activity.  With 12 companies that makes the per company
 price $2084. 

 The committee by unanimous vote approved issuing $2084 invoices against the
 purchase orders.

 Syed Huq suggested that the two companies which already issued checks at
 $2500 be handled on an individual basis - such as credit the excess against
 future expenses.  Bob would also approve issuing a refund, if requested.

 Bob listed the twelve companies which are joining the funding effort:

   Applied Simulation Technology
   Cadence
   Digital Equipment
   Hewlett-Packard EEsof
   HyperLynx
   Incases
   Intel
   Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics
   Mitsubishi Semiconductor 
   National Semiconductor
   Viewlogic
   VeriBest

 Bob had no further status on the ibischk3 development and still expects
 the first release in early March.  Bob still expects to incorporate the
 editorial corrections based on [email-masked] reflector activity
 concerning ambiguities.  One fix is to change [End Board Description] to
 [End Electrical Description].  This correction would be put in the unofficial
 ver3_1b.ibs document.

 COOKBOOK
 No report, all the ARs are carried forward.

 AR - The following people have volunteered to supply examples
  Steve Kaufer/Hyperlynx -- Example 1 (Version 1.1 basic model)
  Arpad Muranyi - Example 2
  Stephen Peters - Example 3 

 AR - Syed Huq.  Review and expand (if necessary) Section 3.3. on "Obtaining
 I/V and Switching Information via Lab Measurement".

 IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
 This discussion occurred after the BIRD42.3 discussion but is listed here
 as an Administrative topic.  Bob Ross reviewed that the committee was formed
 at the January 9, 1998 meeting.  Its function was to provide IBIS model
 developers feedback from EDA tool. The goal was to communicate to the IBIS
 developers how the model functioned and what are some of the critical 
 practices and preferred options.  One original option was for the IBIS
 committee to create a one day IBIS model development course.  However, the
 committee members could not commit the time to do such a project.  So the
 original committee with four members was formed at the meeting, and three
 more were added at the January 26, 1998 meeting.

 The complete committee along with their e-mail addresses are listed below:

   Matthew Flora, HyperLynx                   [email-masked]
   Bob Ross, Interconnectix/Mentor Graphics   [email-masked]
   Olaf Rethmeier, Incases                    [email-masked]
   Chris Rokusek, Viewlogic                   [email-masked]
   Paul Galloway, Cadence                     [email-masked]
   Ian Dodd, VeriBest                         [email-masked]
   Jon Powell, Viewlogic                      [email-masked]

 Bob asked how the committee should proceed.  Chris Rokusek suggested some
 method of central distribution such as a Web site where an IBIS model
 developer could issue a model and it would automatically be distributed to
 the committee.  Matthew Flora volunteered to be the focal point for such
 distribution.  At this time he would distribute IBIS models to the other
 members.  If the company required individual company agreements, such as
 NDA documents or Intel CITR documents, then this requirement would be
 distributed by Matthew.  This mechanism complied with Chris' intent.  So
 Matthew is the focal point for providing IBIS model review.

 The reviewers would provide feedback directly to the model provider.  The
 model provider might then learn of important features needed by EDA tools
 which use IBIS models.  Syed Huq questioned how long the feedback would
 take, and Bob stated that on a time available basis he expected the feedback
 to take several days or more.

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Bob Ross indicated that BIRD42.3 will be discussed in presentations by
 C. Kumar and by Bob at the European IBIS Summit.  Bob indicated that there
 are two fundamental reasons given for BIRD42.3: Data for another IBIS
 processing algorithm and data for correction currents.

 BIRD45 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS
 Arpad Muranyi reported that he still needs to investigate incorporating the
 dynamic clamp tables into the [Driver Selection] mechanism.  He still needs
 to work with Neven Orhanovic on this issue.

 BIRD46 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS
 Matthew Flora continued the BIRD46 discussion that was started at the
 January 9, 1998 meeting.  BIRD46 allows the total <filename>.ibs to be
 expanded to 64 characters.  It is currently limited by the original DOS
 convention of 8.3.  So the <filename> could contain 60 characters.

 A concern was raised that the DOS limitation might still exist in Windows NT 
 Version 3.5.1 but subsequent e-mail argued that this limitation did not
 exist.
 
 Bob Ross had stated for consistency that a change made for the .ibs files 
 should also apply to the .pkg and .ebd files in IBIS Version 3.0.  Todd
 Andersen asked where .pkg and its limit was documented.  Bob found some
 references in the IBIS Version 3.0 document.  The other formats refer to
 complying to the <filename>.ibs or <filename>.pkg or <filename>.ebd file
 naming conventions.  Rule 3 of the General Syntax Rules and Guidelines
 Section states that the filename must not exceed 8 characters in order to
 conform with DOS rules.
 
 Arpad Murany asked if the 64 character extension would cause the [Filename]
 keyword to exceed the 80 character line limit.  Bob was concerned that the 
 [Reference Designator Map] keyword has three columns consisting of the 
 reference designator, the file name and component name.  Since the component
 name can have 20 characters, Bob suggested that <filename> be limited to
 20 characters.  This would give naming flexibility without encouraging
 excessively long names.  Greg Edlund asked if the underline character "_", 
 character can be used in the name, and Matthew responded that it was already
 allowed.
 
 The general action item is for Matthew Flora to take this discussion into
 account and issue BIRD46.1.  It is possible that BIRD46.1 will be up for
 a vote at the next meeting.

 AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD44.1 to include references to the .pkg file
 and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to
 a <filename> limit of 20 characters.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting is the European EIA IBIS Summit in Paris, France on Monday,
 February 26, 1998.  No teleconference connection is planned.

 The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, March 13, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 
 9:55 A.M.  BIRD46.1 may be scheduled for a vote.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
	     8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
	     M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
	     Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 
 "IBIS Spoken Here" placards are available from Jon Powell ([email-masked]) for 
 use at trade shows.
 ==============================================================================