Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 7/17

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 09:17:00 -0700

DATE: 7/21/98

 SUBJECT: 7/17/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
    
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
 Applied Simulation Technology  Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram
 Cadence Design (& UniCAD)      C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, 
				Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway,
				Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, 
				Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis*
 Cypress                        Bruce Wenniger
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund, Bob Haller
 Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory
 High Design Technology         Razvan Ene
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli*, Matthew Flora*
 Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier, Scott Jacobson,
				Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
				Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan,
				Mohammed Hawana, Martin Chang
   Columbia, SC (formerly NCR)  Dave Moxley*
 Mentor Graphics (Zeelan,       Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman,
   Interconnectix, etc.)        Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot,
				Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, 
				Neven Orhanovic, Mohamed Mahmoud
 Mitsubishi                     Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao
 Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
				Ikchang Song
 North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
   (NESA)
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Symbios Logic                  Larry Barnes
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
				Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*,
				Peter Forstner
 Thomson-CSF                    Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic,
				Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel,
				Jean Lefebvre  
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, 
				Gary Mandel
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas
 VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions*
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
 Actel                          Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin 
 Aerospatiale                   Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet
 Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.)   John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, 
				Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau,
				Daniel Peron
 ALS Design                     Yves Mouquet
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apple                          Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Atmel                          Ali Baktashian
 Avanti                         Nik Bannov
 CERN                           Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, 
				Rudi Zurbroken
 Compaq                         Shariq Rahma
 Crucial Technology             Rathna Reddy*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 EMC                            Fawn Engelmann, Fabrizio Zanella
 ENST, Paris                    Jean-Jacques Charlot
 European CAD Standardization   Adam Morawiec
   Intitiative (ECSI)
 Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme
 H.A.S Electronics              Haruny Said
 IBM                            Richard Steinle, Kevin Jackson
 Intracon Design Ltd.           Derek Laidlaw
 Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen
 Scottish Electronics           Robert Easson
   Manufacturing Center (SEMC)
 Seagate                        Vanessa Howard
 SGS-Thomson                    Philippe Lefevre
 Siemens                        Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, 
				Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez,
				Gil Russell
 Sun Microsystems               Lam Dong, Kevin Ko
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tektronix                      Nassrin Ghahyasi
 Ultratest International        Chris O'Connor
 Xilinx                         Susan Wu

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
   
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   August 7, 1998     (916) 356-9200    6-62590          5632718

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 Although Bob Ross returned early from a vacation, Stephen Peters conducted
 the meeting as originally planned, and Bob took notes.
 
 Rathna Reedy from Crucial Technology who had called in before had some IBIS
 issues that needed to be dealt with off line by Stephen Peters.

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Bob Ross reported that all of the EIA IBIS Open Forum membership payments
 have been received.  The Forum consists of 24 official company members.

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 No corrections were noted.  The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 None.

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE

 Stephen Peters reported that Bob Ross supplied these IBIS model URL additions
 and changes to be documented in the Minutes:

 Intel Pentium II models are located at:

   http://developer.intel.com/design/pro/devtools

 A revised Fairchild Semiconductor URL now references many IBIS models:

   http://www.fairchildsemi.com/models/ibis

 The National Semiconductor and Siemens URLs are now all lower case:

   http://www.national.com/models/ibis/0,1030,0,00.html

   http://www.siemens.de/semiconductor/products/ics/31/3177.htm

 There are now some Motorola ECL IBIS buffers for the URL:

   http://www.mot2.indirect.com/models/bin/logic_ic.html

 PMC-Sierra has IBIS Models (registration is required):

   http://www.pmc-sierra.com/Ibismodels/default.cfm

 Texas Instruments has added some more IBIS models for the Data Transmission
 Products.

   http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/msp/datatran/app_supp.htm

 Atmel library is deleted.  The Samsung library locations are no longer known.

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 None.

 INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
 - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross indicated no further report.
   He still expects formal ratification at the IEC meeting in September, 1998.

 - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit 
   (IMIC) - Bob Ross stated that a presentation on this activity was given
   at the June 18, 1998 IBIS Summit meeting.

 - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross and Jean Claude Perrin did
   not have any further progress to report.  A goal is still to produce a 
   document for the September 1998 IEC meeting.

 - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - D.C. Sessions had no further
   report.

 IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS
 Bob Ross noted that minutes have been sent out on a meeting held on June 25,
 1998.  Activities are continuing regarding drafting an accuracy specification,
 proposing a connector model syntax, and developing an IBIS tutorial.  The next
 meeting is scheduled for August 20, 1998 at Stratus Computer.

 DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE (DAC) IBIS SUMMIT MEETING REVIEW
 Bob Ross felt that the IBIS Summit meeting was very productive.  A number
 of technical issues were resolved on site, and the general plan was developed
 for releasing Version 3.1 of IBIS shortly and Version 3.2 later (with some
 approved extensions).  Four of the presentations along with the minutes of
 the meeting have been uploaded on eda.org under /pub/ibis/summits/dac98.  We
 had a good discussion on future needs for IBIS.

 EDITING COMMITTEE 
 Bob Ross uploaded a work in progress document ver3_1e.ibs on eda.org under
 /pub/ibis/wip.  Stephen Peters uploaded an unofficial copy of ver3_1.ibs
 for review and voting.
 
 The BNF AR remains.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.16) PROGRESS
 Bug fixes have been included in ibischk3 and in the ibischk2+ code within
 ibischk3.  The plan is to do a final ibischk2+ Version 2.1.16 release with
 the same bug fixes.  Chris Rokusek indicated that he has time to work on
 this in the next several weeks.

 AR - Matthew Flora, Chris Rokusek, and Bob Ross work together to (1) add all
 of the changes done in the ibischk3 code relative to bug fixes to the
 ibischk2+ source code, (2) Chris Rokusek generate executables, (3) and Bob
 Ross upload the executables on eda.org.  Also, Syed Huq will generate a Linux
 executable.

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 Bob Ross reported that all of the parser payments have been received (or in
 the case of one company, is being processed).  Bob reported on checking of
 the Version 3.0.2 (vs. Version 3.0.1) parser on the provided test cases.  He
 has found no problems so far and considers the ibischk3 portion to be in 
 very good shape.  Test cases for the latest bug fixes have been included and
 reviewed.  The ebd testing also looks good, but real examples are needed for
 more comprehensive testing.  Bob anticipates that we will find problems, but
 he does not want to hold up releasing the parser.  Bob deferred a vote on
 releasing the parser and on payment of the contractor until later in the 
 agenda.

 COOKBOOK
 No report. 

 IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
 Matthew Flora indicated no activity since last meeting.  However, he still
 plans to send out a note to the reflector.  His main concern is that only a
 few representative models be provided along with data sheets for a complete
 checkout.  He will also check with other model review committee members.  The
 contact address is:

   Matthew Flora, HyperLynx                   [email-masked]

 AR - Matthew Flora issue to the IBIS reflector a short writeup on the IBIS
 IBIS Model Review committee.

 IEEE STANDARD COMPONENT DATA SHEET
 Stephen Peters discussed a new IEEE data sheet standardization activity.  Bob
 Davis of Summit Computer Systems sent out information on this activity to
 the signal integrity reflector.  Stephen forwarded the information to the 
 IBIS reflector and talked with Bob.  Stephen reported that the scope is to
 provide a human readable and machine parsable format for electrical and
 mechanical data sheet information.  IBIS was referenced as one related data
 base.  Stephen expects Bob Davis to participate in the IBIS discussions in the
 future.  Stephen volunteered to serve as the IBIS representative to this
 committee (others are also welcome to join.)

 VOTES ON VERSION 3.1:

 EDITING COMMITTEE REVIEW LIST OF CHANGES
 Stephen Peters discussed the development of ver3_1.ibs.  This was developed
 from ver3_1e.ibs, with the commented changes implemented.

 Stephen noted that ver3_1.ibs contains the approved BIRD47 for Electrical
 Board Description syntax, and pending BIRD52 for [Driver Schedule] editorial
 changes.  

 Stephen also changed the order of the [Series Switch Groups] and [Series Pin 
 Mapping] keywords since the description of [Series Switch Groups] follows more
 naturally the [Series Pin Mapping] keyword.

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Stephen Peters suggested that because of other changes in the IBIS document,
 BIRD44 may need to be rewritten.  He suggested putting BIRD44 to a vote to
 close it out.  

 BIRD44 was rejected with one vote in favor.

 BIRD52 - [Driver Schedule] CLARIFICATIONS
 Stephen Peters introduced BIRD52 as an editorial change that has been included
 in the pending Version 3.1.  Kellee Crisafulli raised the issue that if we
 were to revisit the [Driver Schedule] function, we would probably redo it
 in terms of the [Add Submodel] keyword pending for Version 3.2.  Currently
 there exists a number of ignored elements which were retained so that changes
 to the ibischk2 parser would be minimized.  Bob Ross stated that this was
 known when the [Driver Schedule] functionality was approved.  At the June 18,
 1998 IBIS Summit meeting we made some architectural decisions regarding [Add
 Submodel] concerning inheritance of voltages and not requiring or supporting
 unnecessary data.  Bob indicated that our choices are to accept the [Driver
 Schedule] as is (and as approved in June, 1997) or redo it in terms of an
 [Add Submodel] construct.  This would delay implementation of IBIS Version
 3.1.

 To resolve this, Kellee proposed adding an editorial note to the Version 3.1
 [Driver Schedule] keyword stating that this functionality is intended to be
 replaced by an [Add Submodel] construction in a future release.  Chris Rokusek
 asked if [Driver Schedule] would still be supported.  Bob and others indicated
 that it would continue to be supported.

 Kellee made the motion to add a statement to the IBIS Version 3.1 document
 under the [Driver Schedule] keyword regarding the intent that an [Add
 Submodel] implementation of this functionality is planned in a future
 release as the preferred implementation of this functionality.  This motion
 was supported by D.C. Sessions as an amendment to the Version 3.1 document
 to be voted on.

 The motion was approved by vote.

 Stephen called for a vote on BIRD52.

 BIRD52 was approved unanimously.

 IBIS VERSION 3.1
 Stephen called for a vote on IBIS Version 3.1 document, but as amended by
 the editorial addition to the [Driver Schedule] keyword.

 IBIS Version 3.1 was ratified (with the amendment) by unanimous vote.

 As a result of this approval an number of actions need to occur.

 AR - Bob Ross document the approved and rejected BIRDs.  Bob (working with
 Stephen Peters) revise and upload the official copy of IBIS Version 3.1 on
 eda.org under /pub/ibis/ver3.1 with the approved editorial addition to the
 [Driver Schedule] keyword.

 While Bob did did not commit to developing an alternative [Add Submodel]
 syntax for [Driver Schedule] he will probably work on this and consult Kellee
 Crisafulli and others.

 IBISCHK3 RELEASE
 Bob Ross already had reviewed his testing of the ibischk3 Version 3.0.2.
 Bob proposed that we vote on the release of IBISCHK3 Version 3.0.2 parser and
 designate it as Version 3.1.0.  Geoffrey Ellis asked if executables for other
 operating systems would be released, and Bob stated that we will produce the
 usual set of executables for other operating systems, as we always have done.

 IBISCHK3 was ratified as the official Version 3.1 parser by unanimous vote.

 IBISCHK3 PARSER CONTRACT PAYMENT.
 Bob Ross considered the ibischk3 parser development project completed and
 called for a vote to authorize full payment for the ibischk3 Version 3.0.1
 parser.  The committee discussed and recognized the fine, professional work
 done by the developer, Atul Agarwal.

 Release of the full payment was unanimously approved by vote.

 AR - Bob Ross handle the parser development project payment details through
 EIA.

 AR - Bob Ross work with Matthew Flora, Chris Rokusek, and Syed Huq to develop
 the official Version 3.1.0 source code distribution package and also to 
 upload the executables for a variety of operating systems including DOS, 
 Unix flavors, and Linux.

 VOTES ON INITIATING IBIS VERSION 3.2 AND IBISCHK Version 3.2.0:

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Stephen Peters called for a vote on BIRD42.3.  Stephen stated that BIRD42.3
 had been around for a while, but with minimal action.  Bob Ross indicated
 that while there were some good ideas in BIRD42.3 regarding documenting the
 crowbar current, BIRD42.3 does have its controversial aspects.  Current table
 extraction is not easily done by measurement.  Simulator companies already
 successfully use voltage table based methods.  A different method may be
 needed to deal with some more dominate noise effects due to internal clocks
 inside larger processors.  So the additional complication of BIRD42.3 may not
 yield the expected accuracy improvements.

 BIRD42.3 was rejected with one vote in favor.

 BIRD48.4 - ADD MODEL
 Stephen Peters called for a vote on BIRD48.4.  He indicated that there was
 a dependency that BIRD48.4 was needed for BIRD49.3 and BIRD50.3.  Bob Ross
 briefly gave an overview of the changes.  He stated that the changes agreed
 at the June 18, 1998 IBIS Summit meeting were included.  The allowed submodel
 keywords were given in the text.  Bob also noted that he uploaded some sample
 implementations associated with the [Add Submodel] functions.

 BIRD48.4 was unanimously approved by vote.

 BIRD49.3 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS
 Stephen Peters called for a vote on BIRD49.3.  Kellee Crisafulli pointed out
 some editorial mistakes in BIRD49.3 where the clocked mode was still mentioned
 in the STATEMENT OF THE ISSUE: section.  Also Kellee noted that the [GND 
 Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] examples had the data commented out
 by mistake.  Bob Ross agreed that these were mistakes and proposed voting
 on BIRD49.3 with the corrections, as noted.  This would be issued as BIRD49.4.

 BIRD49.4 (BIRD49.3 with the above changes) was approved by unanimous vote.

 AR - Bob Ross create the approved BIRD49.4 [Done]

 BIRD50.3 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD
 Stephen Peters called for a vote on BIRD50.3.  Kellee Crisafulli noted a
 spelling error in the ANALYSIS PATH/DATA THAT LED TO SPECIFICATION: section.
 Bob Ross felt that because the ANALYSIS PATH section of the bird is not 
 part of the Version 3.2 specification proper it did not need to be changed. 

 BIRD50.3 was approved by unanimous vote.

 VERSION 3.2 PARSER DEVELOPMENT PROJECT
 Bob Ross noted that we have now defined the additions to ibischk3 to support
 IBIS Version 3.2.  Along with BIRD48.4, BIRD49.4 and BIRD50.3, the project
 will also include BIRD46.1 (for changing the file name length restriction
 from 8 to 20 characters) and BIRD51 (Adding 3-state_ECL Model_type).

 Stephen Peters asked if we now needed to arrange for new payment to Atul for
 the 3.2 parser.  Bob said the arrangement would be to route some of the money 
 from new source code purchases to Atul.

 AR - Bob Ross work with Atul Agarwal to start the ibischk3 development for
 IBIS Version 3.2.

 INPUT ENHANCEMENTS
 In the time remaining, D.C. Sessions introduced the topic of needed input
 enhancements to IBIS.  This was based on some ASICs that he is working on.
 The main limitation is that the thresholds may need to be referenced to some
 new reference voltages.  The fact that CMOS input thresholds are designed as
 a percentage of Vcc already poses a problem when the Vcc voltage of the
 devices is varied over its operating range.  D.C. indicated that he is 
 encountering this limitation in a number of JEDEC technologies.  He mentioned
 the need for an AC offset voltage reference and a DC offset voltage reference.

 Bob Ross noted that the [Model Spec] method of handing is by voltage directly.
 This works if the thresholds are fixed, are a percentage of a supply or are
 offset from a supply.  However, fixed values for supplies are assumed.

 D.C. proposed that the threshold reference voltages could be added to the
 [Pin Mapping] keyword.  In practice, he actually stated a number of other
 reference voltages (such as core logic voltage) that are separated by design.
 However, he is just proposing one extension.

 This was discussed extensively.  Upon suggestions, D.C. plans to start the
 discussion on the IBIS reflector.  Bob noted that this will eventually have
 to evolve into a BIRD to be considered seriously by the Committee.

 OTHER NEW DIRECTIONS
 Arpad Muranyi also speculated on how long IBIS will be relevant.  He saw
 additional complexity.  D.C. Sessions noted that devices are really becoming
 more complicated, and IBIS is just documenting such enhancements.  D.C. also
 noted that there may be a time when IBIS becomes obsolete and is replaced
 by some other format.

 One of Arpad's issues was that equation based specification can be more
 flexible since features could be added without keyword extensions.  He and
 others still support the behavioral methodology because this approach keeps
 confidential the internal intellectual property.  The equation approach
 allows including both the data and algorithms to process the data.  Such an
 approach would allow extensions without requiring more keywords.

 This should be discussed on the IBIS reflector.  Implementation suggestions
 would need to be evolved into an EGG or BIRD for serious consideration.

 Bob Ross noted that the EIA IBIS Open Forum continues to meet regularly and
 remain active (as opposed to disbanding upon approval of a version).  This
 reflects on the changing technology and on the fact that IBIS continues to
 be relevant.  People continue to be interested in using the IBIS format as
 the platform for technology changes and needs.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting will be on Friday, August 7, 1998 from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
	     8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

 VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
	     M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
	     Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 SECRETARY:  Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
	     17641 NE 67th Court
	     Redmond, WA 98052

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 ==============================================================================