Subject: EIA/IBIS Open Forum Minutes 6/5

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 17:51:48 -0700

DATE: 6/09/98

 SUBJECT: 6/05/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
     
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
 Applied Simulation Technology  Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram
 Cadence Design (& UniCAD)      C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, 
				Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway,
				Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, 
				Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis 
 Cypress                        (Bruce Wenniger)
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller
 Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory
 High Design Technology         Razvan Ene
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli*, Matthew Flora*
 Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson,
				Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
				Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan,
				Mohammed Hawana
   Columbia, SC (formerly NCR)  Dave Moxley
 Mentor Graphics (Zeelan,       Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman,
   Interconnectix, etc.)        Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot,
				Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, 
				Neven Orhanovic
 Mitsubishi                     Hoang Nguyen, Tam Cao
 Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
				Ikchang Song
 North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
   (NESA)
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Symbios Logic                  Larry Barnes*
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
				Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin,
				Peter Forstner
 Thomson-CSF                    Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic,
				Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel,
				Jean Lefebvre  
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, 
				Gary Mandel
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas
 VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions*
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
 Actel                          Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin 
 Aerospatiale                   Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet
 Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.)   John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, 
				Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau,
				Daniel Peron
 ALS Design                     Yves Mouquet
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apple                          Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Avanti                         Nik Bannov
 CERN                           Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, 
				Rudi Zurbroken
 Compaq                         Shariq Rahma
 Crucial Technology             Rathna Reddy
 EIA                            Patti Rusher
 EMC                            Fawn Engelmann, Fabrizio Zanella*
 ENST, Paris                    Jean-Jacques Charlot
 European CAD Standardization   Adam Morawiec
   Intitiative (ECSI)
 Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme
 H.A.S Electronics              Haruny Said
 Intracon Design Ltd.           Derek Laidlaw
 Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen
 Scottish Electronics           Robert Easson
   Manufacturing Center (SEMC)
 Seagate                        Vanessa Howard
 SGS-Thomson                    Philippe Lefevre
 Siemens                        Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, 
				Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez,
				Gil Russell
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tektronix                      Nassrin Ghahyasi
 Ultratest International        Chris O'Connor
 Xilinx                         Susan Wu

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
   
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   June 18, 1998      IBIS Summit Meeting - No Phone Bridge

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 Larry Barnes of Symbios Logic indicated that his company is joining the EIA
 IBIS Open Forum and he will be the representative.  Larry is involved in high
 speed system modeling for SCSI controllers and fiber channel.  He is
 interested in accurate and robust IBIS models for high speed systems. 

 Fabrizio Zanella is a Signal Integrity Engineer with EMC, but has been with
 Teradyne in the past.  He has been active in the IBIS Users Group and is
 heading a group to propose a connector model specification.  Fabrizio
 discussed what has happened to date.  (This is reported under IBIS EAST USERS
 GROUP ACTIVITIES below.)

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Based on recent information from Patti Rusher, three payments for parsers
 and two membership payments have not been recorded at EIA.

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 No corrections were noted.  The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 None.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Syed Huq reported that the Digital entry in the a membership roster has been
 updated.

 Bob Ross noted that a few incidental references to IBIS appeared in several
 articles while discussing other issues.

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 Bob Ross noted that a generic Accelerated Graphics Port AGP4X IBIS Model
 for Intel is located at

   http://www.agpforum.org

 and embedded PowerPC IBIS models from IBM at

   http://www.chips.ibm.com/products/embedded/library/techlib.html

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 None.
 (Bob Ross on BIRD52)

 INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
 - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross indicated no further report.
   He still expects formal ratification at the IEC meeting in September, 1998.

 - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit 
   (IMIC) - Bob Ross stated that the deadline for comments is June 10, 1998.
   Version 1.1 of the standard found under the "Outline of I/O Interface
   Project Group at:
  
     http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp

 - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross got a note from Jean Claude
   Perrin that work is progressing.  Jean Claude plans another Experts meeting
   prior to the September 1998 IEC meeting.

 - JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - D.C. Sessions noted that the
   group number has been changed from JC-16B to JC-16.2.  He had just had a
   meeting with a JEDEC memories group (JC -42) regarding the memory road map.
   Simulation models are needed for DRAMS, and the semiconductor vendors need
   EDA tools for signal integrity analysis.  Bob Ross mentioned that the IBIS
   Summit meeting is planned in December, 1998 and co-located with the JEDEC
   meeting to promote interaction.

 IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS
 Greg Edlund reported that the IBIS Users Group meeting held May 28. 1998
 at Stratus Computer discussed three topics:

 (1) Fabrizio Zanella has formed a small group to create a connector model
     BIRD.  Fabrizio reported that the team consists of Fabrizio (EMC), John
     Ellis (Berg), Mark Gailus (Teradyne), Gus Panella (Molex), Eric Bogatin
     (Ansoft), and Kellee Chrisafulli (Hyperlynx).  The group is just beginning
     its discussions and is considering starting with the rejected BIRD31.3.
     Discussions also include 2D versus 3D mdoels, Tee, Pi or T-line sections, 
     return paths, and accuracy issues.  Simulator vendor solutions were also
     also discussed.  Bob Ross indicated that the committee needs to approach
     this from a more generic, vendor neutral point of view.  The group itself
     is holding teleconference meetings.

 (2) The Model Accuracy subcommittee gave its report to date that has already
     been sent to the IBIS reflector.  Bob Haller introduced the text at the
     meeting.

 (3) For the education activities to take place, Ed Sayre needs more help.
     Ed will assist, but he cannot create the class by himself.

 Bob Ross stated that an IBIS Summit meeting is still planned (on Thursday,
 October 15, 1998) in Massachusetts at the same time as the PCB Conference
 East.  Fabrizio suggested that Stratus Computer has facilities on site that
 would be suitable for this meeting and located about five miles from the PCB
 Conference East site.

 DESIGN AUTOMATION CONFERENCE (DAC) IBIS SUMMIT MEETING & EIA BOOTH
 Bob Ross reported that the will be held on Thursday, June 18, 1998 at the
 Marriott Hotel next to Moscone Hall in San Francisco, California where DAC
 is being held.

 Stephen Peters reported several sign-ups and two presentations.  Arpad Muranyi
 will discuss future simulation tool needs for emerging technologies for about
 45 minutes.  Syed Huq will discuss IBIS Model Validation using s2ibis on a
 Linux system for about 15 minutes.

 Bob stated that election of offices will occur for the positions at the end
 of these minutes.  Also Bob will spend about 20 minutes on a general IBIS
 Committee Review.

 The remainder of the program will be of a technical orientation on the recent
 set of BIRDs that either need to be approved or rejected.  However, only 
 BIRDs that have been mailed out two weeks in advance will be candidates for
 a final vote.  We should reach general agreement on the others to issue the
 final BIRDs in preparation for a vote.

 Bob noted that we could proceed to closing Version 3.1 without the pending
 BIRDs (but with the ibischk3 parser completion).  D.C. Sessions expressed the
 need to get Version 3.1 approved.  Bob noted that EDA tool vendors are 
 already working on Version 3.1 features.  The alternative is to delay 
 everything until all of the new approved BIRDs have been written in IBIS
 Version 3.1 and the ibischk3 parser includes these new features.  This
 could delay adoption further.  The sense was to proceed as fast as possible
 to get a Version 3.1 release out, with a Version 3.2 release following.
 Concern was expressed that this would create confusion, but Bob noted that
 since IBIS has always supported upward compatibility, this should not be a
 problem for any model developer.  We are just considering some new features.

 Bob stated that a number of new BIRDs will need to be issued just to close
 IBIS Version 3.1 based on answers to questions raised during the ibischk3 and
 ebdchk3 parser development.  Bob gave some examples including setting the
 the maximum pin name lengths for component pins to five or eight, setting the
 reference designator length, and others.

 Bob will work on the Agenda pending the rest of the meeting and issue it
 next week for the IBIS Summit Meeting.  Stephen Peters issued a meeting
 reminder.  Several more people indicated that they are attending.

 AR - Bob Ross send out Agenda for the IBIS Summit Meeting.

 Per the AR of last meeting, Stephen Peters wrote a one page handout on the
 EIA IBIS Open Forum with some general contacts.  He sent it out to the
 officers and got some comments.  Stephen will finish it and sent the Word
 document to Patti Rusher.

 AR - Stephen Peters sent EIA IBIS Open Forum Fact Sheet to Patti Rusher.

 Kellee Chrisafulli suggested that IBIS T-shirts sold at the EIA booth might
 be popular.  Bob did not have time to pursue this, nor did he know if EIA 
 could or would do this.  Kellee indicated that he will pursue this idea 
 directly with Patti.

 EDITING COMMITTEE 
 Bob Ross got some additional editorial corrections from Matthew Flora.  Bob
 will include them in the UNOFFICIAL IBIS ver3_1d.ibs document along with any
 other approved BIRD information.
 
 The BNF AR remains.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Bob Ross indicated no progress.

 AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted
 in the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum meeting minutes.

 IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.15) PROGRESS
 Chris Rokusek reported no progress since last meeting.

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 Bob Ross sent in some more problems from an EBD file.  Bob stated that the
 ibischk3 Version 3.0.1 parser is in excellent shape and near completion.
 the ebdchk3 Version 3.0.1 parser needs more work, but is very useful even
 in its current state.  We may learn more from actual .ebd files.  Larry
 Barnes stated that he may be able to supply some BGA package information.

 Stephen Peters asked, and Bob responded that the general criteria for 
 completion is when the reported bugs have been fixed.  Bob will want to pay
 Atul Agarwal at that time.  Atul also will work on BIRDs not included in
 the original agreement and receive payment in chunks as more parser license
 sales occur.

 On the next revision, Bob requested BUG27 and BUG28 be addressed.  Bob
 suggested only one executable, ibischk3, with an -ebd option for .ebd
 checking.  Matthew Flora suggested that the type of check could be detected
 automatically based on the extension (.ibs or .ebd).  Bob noted that Atul
 suggested and plans to include a test for .pkg only files.  Currently, a .ibs
 file is needed with a reference to the package model in the .pkg file to do
 ,pkg testing.  Bob expects another release, but has no specific date.

 COOKBOOK
 No report. 

 IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
 Matthew Flora indicated no more activity since last meeting.  He has privately
 commented on some models.  Bob Ross repeated the general information, and
 Matthew will still issue a writeup.

 For general information, the contact person is:

   Matthew Flora, HyperLynx                   [email-masked]

 AR - Matthew Flora issue to the IBIS reflector a short writeup on the IBIS
 IBIS Model Review committee.

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Based on the suggestion, the specific discussion was deferred to the IBIS
 Summit Meeting on June 18, 1998.  D.C. Sessions asked for a specific 
 design/test case that the current spec is unable to handle before the 
 group proccedes with more discussion of this bird.

 BIRD48.3 - ADD MODEL
 BIRD49.2 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS
 BIRD50.2 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD
 Kellee Chrisafulli stated that the his company reviewed these BIRDs and were
 confused with the presentation.  They suggested that a new model keyword
 named [Sub Model] and used for the special purpose added models would 
 clarify the usage.  The specific keywords and subparameters under [Sub Model]
 would be listed.  In the top-level model, the [Add Model] keyword would be
 changed to [Add Sub Model].  The impact of this change would apply to all
 three BIRDs.  Bob Ross supported these suggestions.

 Regarding BIRD49.2, Kellee commented that he thought the triggered and static
 modes were clear.  However, he did not understand the clocked mode or its
 application.  Arpad Muranyi commented on the clocked mode.  It was intended
 to support a dynamic clamp being turned off by a clock pulse.  D.C. Sessions
 questioned whether full timing simulation information is needed in IBIS,
 since this has already been outside the scope of IBIS.  Bob Ross indicated
 that more work needs to be done on clocked mode to address the concerns and
 also questioned whether it was necessary for the standard.

 Regarding BIRD50.2, Kellee's main comment was that a full example is needed.
 This comment applies to other BIRDs as well.

 Bob asked whether the other EDA tool vendors generally could support the
 extensions proposed in these BIRDs.  The response was positive.  Bob
 commented that more discussions will occur at the IBIS Summit Meeting.  We
 cannot officially vote on them at the meeting since they will not have been
 out for two weeks.  But we should reach agreement on what to include in IBIS
 that we can go forward with parser development and with the preparation of
 the final BIRDs for voting.  Bob will issue revised BIRDs in preparation for
 the IBIS Summit Meeting discussions.

 AR - Bob Ross issue BIRD48.4, BIRD49.3, and BIRD50.3 capturing some of the
 comments to date.

 BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS
 Bob Ross summarized BIRD46.1 changing the maximum number of characters in a
 file name from 8 to 20 characters for .ibs, .pkg, and .ebd file names.  This
 is accomplished by changing paragraph 3) in the General Syntax Rules and
 Guidelines section and also be providing a reference back to this section
 in the [Package Model] keyword regarding .pkg files.  Bob confirmed with 
 Matthew Flora that such a reference already existed for .ebd files, so no
 change was needed for that section of the IBIS Specification.  Everyone
 generally supported this change.

 BIRD46.1 will be voted on at the IBIS Summit meeting.

 BIRD51 - 3-STATE ECL
 Kellee Chrisafulli called for a vote, since his group supported it and there
 were no discussion.

 BIRD51 was approved unanimously.

 Bob plans to include this in IBIS Version 3.1.

 BIRD52 - [Driver Schedule] CLARIFICATIONS
 As time was running out, Bob Ross mentioned the recently issued BIRD52 by
 Arpad Muranyi as a set of clarifications.  The main intent was to clarify
 that [Driver Schedule] is under the [Model] keyword.  Kellee Chrisafulli
 needed a full example so that implementors know how the exact format.

 BIRD42 was left as a discussion topic for the IBIS Summit Meeting.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next meeting will be a face-to-face meeting on Thursday, June 18, 1998
 from 8:30 AM to 5:00 PM at the Marriott Hotel, in San Francisco, CA.  BIRD46.1
 is scheduled for a vote.  Other BIRDs will be discussed.

 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
	     8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
	     M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
	     Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 ==============================================================================