Subject: EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes

From: Stephen Peters <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:17:33 -0700

DATE: 4/28/98

 SUBJECT: 4/24/98 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
     
 VOTING MEMBERS AND 1998 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
 AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
 Applied Simulation Technology  Norio Matsui, Raj Raghuram
 Cadence Design (& UniCAD)      C. Kumar, Don Telian, Patrick Riffault, 
				Craig Lewis, Greg Fitzgerald, Paul Galloway,
				Patrick Dos Santos, Catherine Weiss, 
				Alain Tribaudot, Geoffrey Ellis* 
 Cypress                        (Bruce Wenniger)
 Digital Equipment Corp.        Jeff Chu, Greg Edlund*, Bob Haller
 Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  Karl Kachigan, Henry Wu, Paul Gregory
 High Design Technology         Razvan Ene
 HyperLynx                      Kellee Crisafulli, Matthew Flora*
 Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier*, Scott Jacobson,
				Werner Rissiek
 Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
				Will Hobbs, Prakash Radhakrishnan
   Columbia, SC (formerly NCR)  Dave Moxley
 Mentor Graphics (Zeelan,       Bob Ross*, George Opsahl, Mark Noneman,
   Interconnectix, etc.)        Tom Dagostino, Karine Loudet, Jean Oudinot,
				Manuel De Almeida, Stephane Rousseau, 
				Nevin Orhanovic
 Mitsubishi                     Hoang Nguyen*, Tam Cao
 Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
 National Semiconductor         Syed Huq*, Cheng-Yang Kao, John Goldie,
				Ikchang Song
 North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda
   (NESA)
 NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
 Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
 Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher, Harvey Stiegler,
				Vincent Chang, Jean-Claude Perrin*,
				Peter Forstner
 Thomson-CSF                    Jean-Marc Claveau, Laurent Duzaic,
				Saverio Lerose, Benoit Meyniel,
				Jean Lefebvre  
 Viewlogic                      Jon Powell, Chris Rokusek*, Guy de Burgh, 
				Gary Mandel
 VeriBest                       Ian Dodd, David Weins, Ian Gabbitas
 VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions
 Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

 OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1998:
 Actel                          Eric Tardif, Emmonvelle Gaudin 
 Aerospatiale                   Lionel Dreux, Claude Huet
 Alcatel (Bell, Espace, etc.)   John Fitzpatrick, W. Temmerman, 
				Laure Bessettes, Jean-Claude Pourtau,
				Daniel Peron
 ALS Design                     Yves Mouquet
 Ansoft                         Eric Bogatin
 Apple                          Fred Floresca, Danny Itani
 Apteq Design Systems           Dan FitzPatrick 
 Avanti                         Nik Bannov
 CERN                           Olivier Clere, Jean-Michel Sainson, 
				Rudi Zurbroken
 Compaq                         Shariq Rahma
 Crucial Technology             Rathna Reddy*
 EIA                            Patti Rusher*
 EMC                            Fawn Engelmann
 ENST, Paris                    Jean-Jacques Charlot
 European CAD Standardization   Adam Morawiec
   Intitiative (ECSI)
 Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme
 H.A.S Electronics              Haruny Said
 Intracon Design Ltd.           Derek Laidlaw
 Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen
 Scottish Electronics           Robert Easson
   Manufacturing Center (SEMC)
 Seagate                        Vanessa Howard
 SGS-Thomson                    Philippe Lefevre
 Siemens                        Gerald Bannert, Bernhard Unger, 
				Christian Marot, Miguel Hernandez,
				Gil Russell
 Symmetry                       Andy Hughes
 Tektronix                      Nassrin Ghahyasi
 Ultratest International        Chris O'Connor
 Xilinx                         Susan Wu

 In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
 members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
 Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

 Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
 follows:
   
   Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
   May 15, 1998       (916) 356-9200    4-167409         2939394
   June 5, 1998       (916) 356-9200    4-167410         9468535

 All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
 7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
 When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
 Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.
 
 NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

 -------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

 INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
 Rathna Reddy from Crucial Technology (a spinoff of Micron Technology) is
 involved in memory board design using memory ICs and needs to use IBIS models
 to support EDA tools.

 MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
 Patti Rusher reported that she sent Bob Ross a report indicating that there
 were no new members.  Bob reported that most of the members have paid and
 some special case situations will be handled off line.  For example, one
 company was double billed.  Also, some companies do not show having paid for
 the ibischk3 development project, and these issues will be traced offline.
 Bob indicated that in spite of some billing confusion and glitches, he is
 pleased with the payment progress to date.

 REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
 The AR's will be discussed at the meeting.  No corrections were noted on
 the previous two sets of meeting Minutes.

 MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
 Bob Ross indicated that he still plans the Majordomo conversion when he has
 time.

 Syed Huq reported that he continues to do roster updates and reports them
 to Bob as they occur to get the 1998 entries correctly reflected.

 PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
 Bob Ross noted that IBIS was mentioned briefly in "Printed-Circuit Board
 Changes Enable New Design Possibilities" by Cheryl Ajluni in the April 6, 
 1998 issue of Electronic Design, pp. 83-92.

 NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
 Bob Ross reported that Matthew Flora found that Aptos Semiconductor is
 supplying IBIS models at

   http://www.aptos.com/ibismain.htm

 OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
 Bob Ross on meeting dates
 Bob Ross on ibischk3 and ebdchk3 distribution
 Bob Ross on 3-state ECL
 Bob Ross on Electrical Board Description issues.

 INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
 - IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher still has not heard on the
   status.  This may not be resolved until the next IEC meeting in September.

 - pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuit 
   (IMIC) - Bob Ross noted the revised notation and the fact the the March 31,
   1998 copy designated Version 1.1 is available and downloadable in a .pdf
   format from the site below:

     http://tsc.eiaj.or.jp/tsc/SSC/IOPG.htm

   Comment deadline on this version closes on June 10, 1998.  Bob noted that
   a few pages could not be printed because of some font problems.

 - IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Jean-Claude Perrin, Chair, reported
   that the New Work Item Proposal activity will be delayed by about four
   months due to workload conflicts and administrative delays.  He may have a
   document to show at the IEC meeting, but it will not be the formal
   proposal.

 - JC-16B - Bob Ross wanted to clarify the dates of the IBIS Summit Meeting
   planned for December, 1998.  Patti Rusher will check if it is planned for 
   Wednesday, December 9, 1998.  She also indicated that the JEDEC committee 
   was very pleased to have a co-located meeting with people from JC-16B.  
   The meeting will be mutually beneficial for the groups since they are 
   interested in the same issues from different perspectives.

 MEETING DATES
 Bob Ross inserted this new discussion topic here.  Bob indicated that the
 remaining meetings through the IBIS Summit Meeting at the Design Automation
 Conference and the other IBIS Summit meetings are listed below along with the 
 suggested emphasis:

   Friday, May 15, 1998 - Teleconference
   Friday, June 5, 1998 - Teleconference
   Thursday, June 18, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (Design Automation 
			     Conference (DAC))
     Election of EIA IBIS Open Forum Officers
     Possible Final Technical Discussions regarding Open BIRDs
     Possible Ratification of Version 3.1
   Thursday, October 15, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (PCB Conference East and
				IBIS Users Group)
     Educational Issues
     Accuracy and Validation Issues
   Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - IBIS Summit Meeting (JEDEC JC-16B)
     JC-16B Design/EDA Tool Simulation/Modeling Issues for configurations of
       mutual interest such as Series Stub Terminated Logic (STTL), etc.
   Monday, February 1, 1999 - IBIS Summit Meeting (DesignCon)

 Regarding the DAC IBIS meeting, Stephen Peters indicated that he would like
 to have IBIS Version 3.1 finalized, if possible.  Bob would also like this
 as a goal and will work hard to resolve and close out the open BIRDs.  Patti
 Rusher has reserved the room from 9 AM to 5 PM.  She needs to place the
 banquet order for food and plans just the morning refreshments and lunch.
 The meeting might not need to take all day.

 Greg Edlund indicated that having an IBIS Summit Meeting associated with the
 PCB Conference East had been discussed the previous day at the IBIS Users
 meeting on April 23, 1998.  There was considerable interested along with
 the interest in the educational aspects.

 IBIS EAST USERS GROUP ACTIVITIES
 Since scheduling and meetings was being discussed, Bob Ross moved this topic
 here to continue with Greg Edlunds' report on the April 23, 1998 meeting.
 Greg already reported that the interest was positive on having an IBIS Summit
 meeting at the time of the PCB Conference East.

 Greg summarized Paul Galloway's report and gave this report.  Due to job
 responsibility changes, Paul will have to pull away from chairing the Sub-
 committee on Software and Usability.  Paul reported that he and Ed Sayre
 are working on a possible two day IBIS training course.  

 Patti Rusher indicated that if it is to be associated with the PCB Conference
 East, then the proposal needs to be submitted soon to the show sponsors - 
 Miller Freeman.  The PCB magazine and Miller Freeman co-own this conference.  
 If the course were done through the conference, then the price would probably 
 be set and the profits would go the the conference organizers.  The deadline
 has already past for proposed seminars.  Bob Ross indicated that the course
 could also be set up separately.  Perhaps it could follow the IBIS Summit
 meeting as a dry run.  It could be a one-half day session after the IBIS
 Summit Meeting (although the feeling was that this would conflict with other
 IBIS Summit business).  It could also be done on a separate day.

 Greg also stated that Paul reported on other items - the Cadence s2ibis2
 windows manager was released.  The IBIS Users Group Web Page is being done by
 a group in Switzerland and is up, but information has not been put in it
 yet.

 Greg reported that he talked about the accuracy and validation activities.
 He has already sent minutes out to the ibis-user reflector.

 The meeting was held at Trilogic.  The next meeting is scheduled on Thursday,
 May 21, 1998.

 IBIS LOGO CHANGE
 Bob Ross summarized the comments to date on the 5 logos that were presented.
 Most favored #3, and some favored or listed #1 and #5 as the second choice.
 No one favored #2 or #4.  Based on this and the comments, the committee 
 agreed to pursue using #3.  The main comment is to try make the "IBIS"
 larger.  Arpad Muranyi did not see the association of the logo to the 
 of the committee.  Bob commented that most logos contain only the company
 names.  We could put "I/O Interface Specification underneath the logo in
 some instances to define "IBIS".  The EIA logo has its name, Electronic 
 Industries Alliance, under its logo on the Home page.

 Patti Rusher needs to know soon what the logo will be for preparation of the
 EIA booth at the Design Automation Conference.  Bob suggested that we are
 close enough to using #3 on the EIA IBIS Home page.  However, the suggested
 variations of the logo including a larger IBIS text could still be pursued
 on the tttp://www.eia.org/eig/ibis/ibis.html page.  We will formally decide
 on the logo at the May 15, 1998 meeting, if not sooner.

 Bob raised the issue of who is authorized to use the logo in response to
 a question by Greg Edlund on whether the new logo is downloadable from 
 a .gif file.  Syed Huq felt that the EIA IBIS Open Forum should control the
 usage of the logo since it contains the EIA logo and we do not want the IBIS
 logo to imply that unvalidated IBIS models comply with the IBIS standard.
 Patti thought that EIA IBIS Open Forum Members can use the logo (as a benefit
 for membership) to indicate that they are members of the EIA IBIS Open
 Forum.
  
 Bob stated that the previous "logo" evolved from a placard that was intended
 to be used at trade shows to promote IBIS acceptance.  This placard was given
 to anyone who might be supporting the IBIS effort.  So Bob, while aware of
 some implications, never really tried to control its usage.

 Since this is going to be the official logo, it can only be used by EIA IBIS
 Open Forum Member Companies to indicate the they are members.  It cannot be 
 used to indicate IBIS model compliance.  Any other usage such as by the IBIS 
 East Users Group) must officially be approved by the IBIS Open Forum (which 
 should not be a problem).

 EDITING COMMITTEE 
 Bob Ross indicated that he plans to upload an UNOFFICIAL IBIS ver3_1c.ibs 
 document on eda.org under /pub/ibis/wip.  It will contain the resolved
 BIRD47 change.

 The BNF AR remains.

 AR - Bob Ross generate and post a BNF for IBIS Version 3.0 (an IBIS Version
 3.0 ratification AR).

 BIRD44 - INTERPRETATION OF MIN/MAX/WEAK/STRONG DATA
 Bob Ross indicated no progress.

 AR - Andy Ingraham to issue BIRD44.1 with the changes and extensions noted
 in the March 13, 1998 IBIS Open Forum meeting minutes.

 IBISCHK2+ (VER 2.1.15) PROGRESS
 Bob Ross indicated that he will still act on compressing the existing 
 executables per last meeting - .Z for unix applications, .zip for DOS Windows
 applications.  Matthew Flora and Chris Rokusek are still controlling the
 master of the Version 2.116 release

 BUG27 - Parser Crashes when Calling [Package Model]
 Matthew Flora found another bug which causes a crash.  This occurs since 
 some code checks for line lengths of 79 characters and other code checks for
 80 characters.  Matthew located the source of the problem.

 Bob classified this as Severe, High, Open, and intends that this fix be
 rolled into ibischk2.1.16.

 VERSION 3.1 PARSER DEVELOPMENT
 Bob Ross stated that he is checking in detail the Beta Version 3.0.1 of 
 ibischk3 and ebdchk3.  So far it appears very good.  Some of the prior
 bugs have been fixed in this version, but Bob still needs to confirm that
 the BUGs have been fixed in the embedded ibischk2+ code.  Bob noted that 
 the .make files has a DEFINE -DIBIS_PRINT statement which causes all the 
 variables to be dumped.  The code can be compiled without this statement 
 for a smaller listing of just the Errors and Warnings.

 Bob raised the issue that even though the project is funded by 12 companies,
 we could release the executables.  Matthew Flora indicated that this was
 just preliminary code, so it is possible to have some undetected mistakes.
 Matthew also indicated that it would be valuable to have more people using
 to executables to help test it.  Bob cited that historically the development
 versions of the ibis_chk and ibischk2 executables were made available to 
 support testing and encourage IBIS model development.  Stephen Peters and
 others generally agreed that we should release the executables.  Bob stated
 that we could release just the executables that were convenient such as the
 DOS Windows versions and a few others.  Chris Rokusek volunteered on a one-
 time basis before the Design Automation Conference meeting to generate the
 complete set of ibischk3/ebdchk3 executables.  Bob volunteered to compress
 and post them.

 AR - Chris Rokusek generate the ibischk3 and ebdchk3 executables for Version
 3.0.1 in a timely manner and sent to Bob Ross.  Bob compress and put the
 preliminary executables on eda.org for general access.

 Chris Rokusek also stated that a company who paid for the source code 
 wants to add additional sanity checking, and Chris wondered how this may
 be folded back into the official source.  Bob stated that any
 changes of this nature have to be worked thru the full	committee.

 COOKBOOK 
 Stephen Peters reports that there no is progress on the Cookbook project.

 IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
 Matthew Flora indicated no activity.  However, Bob Ross knows of a possible
 future testing situation. 

 For general information, the contact person is:

   Matthew Flora, HyperLynx                   [email-masked]

 BIRD42.3 - MODELING CURRENT WAVEFORMS
 Bob Ross indicated no activity, but BIRD42.3 will be discussed in the near
 future.  Bob has some concern about specifying both the [Pullup Reference
 Current] and [Pulldown Reference Current] and some numerical interactions.
 Bob indicated that aspects of BIRD42.3 have been discussed at the last two
 IBIS Summit Meetings.  Bob also indicated that the EMC and IBIS Modeling
 sub-committee wanted the functionality that BIRD42.3 provides.

 BIRD48 - ADD MODEL
 BIRD49 - ADD MODEL DYNAMIC CLAMPS
 BIRD50 - ADD MODEL BUS HOLD
 Bob Ross made several comments on these BIRDs related to some additional 
 functionality that was known, but not included in the original proposals.
 First, there still needs to be a mechanism to bypass the edge-trigger 
 method of activating the dynamic clamps since some implementations allow the
 clamps to be invoked from an external clock so that the clamp is preset in a
 shifted clamp state.  Arpad Muranyi mentioned that it might be possible to 
 use a negative time value in the [GND Pulse Table] and [POWER Pulse Table] to 
 indicate a preset state.  This could relate to the operation to the control
 pulse used by EDA tools.  Bob will look into possible methods.

 Bob also stated that some of the Add Model functionality is active only
 for certain states.  Since the Model_type might be used for a particular
 state (such as Input, I/O or Output) another subparameter such as "State"
 might be needed.  It would indicate usage during Input, Output, or I/O
 modes.

 Bob also noted that the embedded added models may be for an Open_sink or
 Open_source state.  The [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform] extensions
 could be used to explicitly give the internal loading conditions since the 
 internal added model configuration was not given.

 BIRD45.1 - DYNAMIC CLAMPS
 Bob Ross called for a vote on BIRD45.1 for the purpose of rejecting it since
 BIRD48 and BIRD49 were intended to replace BIRD45.1.  After some discussion
 on historical details, a vote on BIRD45.1 was held.

 BIRD45.1 was reject unanimously with two abstentions from newer members based 
 on not being familiar with the issues.

 BIRD46.1 - RELAXATION OF SOME IBIS FILE NAME RESTRICTIONS
 Since BIRD46.1 has not been issued, Bob Ross deferred the discussion. 
 
 AR - Matthew Flora issue BIRD46.1 to include references to the .pkg file
 and .ebd file and to change the limitation from 64 total characters to
 a <filename> limit of 20 characters and delete the references to allowing
 the period "." character.

 3-STATE ECL
 As a new item Bob Ross indicated that per the discussion at the last meeting,
 he may issue a BIRD on this for adding the Model_type 3-state_ECL.  He knows
 of an ECL device or two which really has a high-Z mode.

 ELECTRICAL BOARD DESCRIPTION DISCUSSION
 As a new item Bob Ross indicated that there were some Electrical Board 
 Description clarification and technical questions.  He might issue a BIRD
 for clarification.  The items are:

 (1)  We intended that circular references not be allowed, but Bob cannot find
      this being prohibited - e.g., EBD A references EBD B which references
      EBD A.  Stephen Peters indicated that he assumed that this was not 
      permitted.  Bob thought ebdchk3 might actually test for this.

 (2)  Bob questioned whether we want to keep the restriction of .ebd files
      not containing actual IBIS models.  A single file for the .ebd and all
      related IBIS models (and even other Electrical Board Descriptions) would 
      help assure that all of the related information of an Electrical Board 
      Description are included in the same file.  Bob indicated that we
      originally prohibited including IBIS data in .ebd files for some
      practical reasons.  We did not want to make the ebdchk3 utility too
      complicated in order to make its development manageable.  We also did 
      not want to impose on the user a very large utility to do just IBIS 
      model or EBD model checking.  These assumptions may not be valid.  At
      this time, a superset checker for both may be practical.  We already 
      permit a separate .pkg file and also the [Define Package Model] keyword 
      to be defined within a .ibs file, so allowing an IBIS component in a 
      .ebd file could work in a similar manner.  The reference designator 
      listing referencing the same file would needed for referenced IBIS 
      models.  Bob stated, however, that one issue could be conflicting 
      [Define Electrical Description] names and [Component] names.  

 (3)  Regarding conflicting names for [Define Electrical Description] and
      [Component], Bob recommended that the names be different in practice to 
      avoid confusion.

 NEXT MEETING:
 The next teleconference meeting is on Friday, May 15, 1998, 8:00 A.M. to 
 9:55 A.M.  BIRD46.1, if issued, is scheduled for a vote.  Final resolution
 of the IBIS logo is scheduled.
 ==============================================================================
				       NOTES
 
 IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
	     [email-masked]
	     Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
	     8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

 VICE CHAIR: Syed Huq (408) 721-4874, Fax: (408) 721-4785
	     [email-masked]
	     Staff Applications Engineer, National Semiconductor, M/S A-2595
	     2900 Semiconductor Drive, Santa Clara, CA 95052
 
 SECRETARY:  Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
	     M/S JF1-56
	     2111 NE 25th Ave. 
	     Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

 LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
	     [email-masked]
	     Senior Scientist, Viewlogic (formerly Quad Design)
	     1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
  
 This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
 Manual of Organization and Procedure.
 
 The following e-mail addresses are used:

   [email-masked]
       To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
       ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
       or both.  State your request.

   [email-masked]
       To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
       for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
       Open Forum as a full Member.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
       is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
       technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
       used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
       general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

   [email-masked]
       To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
       eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

       To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
       which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
       /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
       respectively.

 Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
 IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
 Electronic Information Group under:

   http://www.eia.org

 Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
 discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
 ==============================================================================