Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 15 Jan 1999

From: Matthew Flora <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:49:17 -0100

DATE: 1/19/99

SUBJECT: 1/15/99 EIA IBIS Open Forum Minutes
  
VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram*
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq*
Compaq                         (Bob Haller), 
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
H.A.S. Electronics             (Haruny Said)
Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  (Karl Kachigan)
High Design Technology         (Razvan Ene)
HyperLynx                      Matthew Flora*
Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier*
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern*,
                               Martin Chang*, Dave Moxley*, Kerry Nelson*, 
                               Jeff Day*
LSI Logic (Symbios Logic)      (Larry Barnes)
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*
Mitsubishi                     (Tam Cao)
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz*
North East Systems Associates  (Edward Sayre)
NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
Texas Instruments              (Jean-Claude Perrin)
Thomson-CSF                    (Jean Lebrun)
Viewlogic                      Chris Rokusek*, (Jon Powell)
VeriBest                       (Ian Dodd)
VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions*
Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999:
Avanti                         Nik Bannov*
EIA                            Patti Rusher*
IBM                            Greg Edlund*, Michael Cohen*
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky*

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
  
  Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
  Monday, February 1, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference
  February 19, 1999  To Be Determined
  Tuesday, March 9, 1999 IBIS Summit Meeting - No Teleconference

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Jeff Day from Intel introduced himself and stated that he is in technical
marketing and is involved in distributing IBIS models.

Kerry Nelson, also from Intel, is involved in engineering and is developing
IBIS models.

Michael Cohen from IBM stated that he called into the January 14, 1999 IBIS
User's Group meeting and is involved from a user's perspective.  He wants
to see that correct IBIS Models are being sent out.  He has been encouraged
to get involved with the IBIS Open Forum.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Patti Rusher stated that the end of the year accounting is still being done.
She expects that the IBIS Committee will be $1200 over her budget, but some
new members will help make up the difference.  

Patti stated she will do the 1999 membership invoices by hand and work off 
line with Bob Ross to check where invoices are being directed since there was
a data base corruption problem in 1998.  Patti stated that she cannot attend
the DesignCon99 IBIS Summit meeting as in the past because of a conflicting
meeting.  So, Bob recommended that she mail the invoices, once they are
checked.

Patti is still working on the budget for 1999.  Bob stated that the membership
fee will remain at $500.  (This is low but much of our activity is funded by
direct support from members.)

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
No corrections.  The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Syed Huq noted that the Cisco, Compaq and Viewlogic logos have been updated
on the Poster page, and several events have been updated on the Upcoming
Events page.

Added After the Meeting: Bob Ross reports that an article "Analyzing EMC
Behavior" by Peter Wolfers in the January 1999 issue of Printed Circuit Design
mentions IBIS as an enabling factor in EMC and EMI prediction.

Also added after the meeting:  Bob adds that Matthew Flora sent out a note on
the IBIS reflectors that the free Visual IBIS Editor from HyperLynx, available
from the EIA IBIS Web site, has been updated and is also available at:

  http://www.hyperlynx.com/vis_ibis.html

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
No new models were reported.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Bob Ross added these issues:
  BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Table in Output Buffers 
  BUG35 - Model Spec Crash Related to Vinl and Vinh being Specified

GENERAL ADMINISTRATION
Bob Ross reported that the last minutes for 1998 are archived under

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/minutes/min1998/m121898.txt

and it contains the 1998 list of IBIS participants and member companies.  The
1999 minutes published here starts tracking the 1999 participation.  It
retains the Voting Member Companies, but add to the Other Participants list
when people call in.  Bob noted that there are currently 26 Voting Members.

Patti Rusher stated that EIA is again providing a booth at the Design 
Automation Conference in 1999.  The 1998 booth was very successful, and the
1999 booth will be at a very advantageous location with great traffic.  
Participating organizations are expected to fund the booth at a cost of at 
least $5000 per organization.  Bob asked if this fee could be taken out of
our normal incoming funds.  Patti stated that this was possible, and she can
put it into the IBIS budget.  Bob agreed that IBIS will participate in the
EIA booth.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Patti Rusher reported that IEC has
  circulated IBIS Version 2.1 on November 6, 1998.  The Committee Draft for
  Vote (CDV) closes ballot on April 15, 1999.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
  (IMIC) - Bob Ross had no report.

- IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross reports that Jean-Claude
  Perrin sent email stating that with the help of the EMC Texas Instruments
  team a first attempt has been made to create an EMC IBIS file based on an
  IBIS style syntax.  Jean-Claude will be discussing this proposal with 
  his UTE (French standard body) team.  After this evaluation, he will send 
  the document to the international EMC task force.  He is planning to set up
  an international experts meeting.

- JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - Bob Ross had no report.

- IEEE P1537 Electronic Data Format Project (Previously listed as the Standard
  Component Data Sheet) - Stephen Peters had no further report.

IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS
Greg Edlund reported that the IBIS Users group held a meeting on site at
North East System Associates (NESA) on Thursday, November 14, 1999.  Several
people including Greg called in.

Greg mentioned that the main topics at the meeting were the IBIS Connector
Model status, the IBIS Accuracy Specification status and preparation for the
DesignCon99 IBIS Summit meeting.

Greg noted that he plans to supply an updated version of the Accuracy
Specification document and also some IBIS test board files.  Syed Huq stated
that there is a accuracy directory on eda.org/pub/ibis for that purpose, and
Greg could upload the files.  However, Bob stated that he cannot distribute
the passwords, so Greg needs to work with Syed or Bob to upload the documents.

Greg reported that a suggestion was made at the User Group meeting that
meetings be conducted via teleconferencing, similar to the IBIS Open Forum
meetings.  Greg asked whether EIA would fund the meetings.  Bob noted that
the EIA IBIS Open Forum meetings are privately funded.  After some discussion
regarding content of such teleconferencing meetings, Bob suggested that this
be discussed further at the IBIS Summit meeting at DesignCon99 as an agenda
item.

DESIGNCON99 FEBRUARY 1, 1999 SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross reported that the IBIS Summit meeting is scheduled on Monday,
February 1, 1999 and will be held in the Grand Ballroom G.  The EIA IBIS Open
Forum is an Associate Sponsor of DesignCon99.   

While, the program is still being formulated, Bob noted these planned and
tentative presentations:

  IBIS Connector BIRD Summary
  Kellee Crisafulli, HyperLynx

  The IBIS Accuracy Specification: Status and Direction
  Greg Edlund,  IBM

  Practical Use of IBIS Models and Accuracy Studies
  Fabrizio Zanella, EMC

  IBIS Futures
  Stephen Peters, Intel

  Tentative IBIS Version 3.2 Overview
  Stephen Peters, Intel

  Extensions to IBIS Input Modeling
  D.C. Sessions, VLSI Technology
 
  Tentative Presentation on IMIC and Accuracy
  Raj Raghuram, Applied Simulation Technology

Arpad Muranyi suggested that future extensions to IBIS be discussed, and Bob
noted that Stephen Peters's presentation could be the basis for such as
discussion.

Milt Schwartz is taking care of lunch arrangements, hosted by National
Semiconductor, at a room at the Westin Santa Clara Hotel.  Milt reports that
he has made reservations for 50 people.  So far he has about 25 people signed
up.  Milt would like people who want National to make copies of their
presentations to send them to Milt by Monday, January 25, 1999.  He prefers
Power Point or Word formats.  Bob noted that Milt could make copies of the
Accuracy Specification document.  Milt plans to send out another reminder to
the IBIS reflectors.  [Done]  Bob wanted the meeting location to be mentioned
in this reminder.  

Bob noted that Jon Powell reported that several companies supplied logos for
the Poster at the IBIS booth.  Several other companies plan to bring the
logos, with Velcro backing to the booth for posting.  Greg Edlund noted that
the IBIS Users group will staff the demo booth and have equipment.  They
are taking care of sending the equipment.  

Bob asked Stephen Peters to send Milt the IBIS Information Sheet used at the
Design Automation Conference as a handout at the IBIS booth at DesignCon99.

AR - Stephen Peters send Milt Schwartz ([email-masked]) the IBIS Information
Sheet so Milt can make copies for the IBIS booth.

Bob also noted that he asked Jon to handle information for an advertisement
on IBIS that will appear in the DesignCon99 onsite brochure.  Information
has been sent to the DesignCon99 organizers where professional graphics
artists will format the advertisement.  Jon and Bob will get to review a FAX
copy.

Patti Rusher stated that there is still no signed contract between EIA and
the DesignCon99 organizers.  The contract needs to be signed, as a matter of
policy.  Bob will take care of getting the information to everyone.

AR - Bob Ross provide Patti Rusher and Glenn Bischoff the contact and phone
numbers so that the contract can be formalized.  [Done]

DATE99 MARCH 9, 1999 SUMMIT MEETING
Bob Ross noted that information has been sent out on the IBIS Summit meeting
associated with the DATE99 conference in Munich, Germany.  Arpad Muranyi asked
for clarification of the date.  The IBIS meeting is scheduled for Tuesday,
March 9, 1999.  The date was chosen to avoid conflicting with the trade show
portion of DATE99 held Wednesday through Friday.  Mentor Graphics and INCASES
are co-sponsoring the IBIS Summit Meeting.

After some discussions, we decided to start at Noon and provide a flexible
format to promote interaction.  Bob believes we should draw heavily from the
local industrial area in Munich and from DATE99 participants.  Several
companies are participating in the PCB Symposium on Thursday, March 11, 
1999.

IBIS VERSION 3.2 RATIFICATION
Bob Ross introduced the IBIS Version 3.2 ratification topic by stating that
we are open to discussion and editorial changes.

Michael Cohen reported that under the Package Model Section, Note 2 needs to
be corrected from [Number or Sections] to [Number Of Sections].

Matthew Flora suggested clarification wording concerning that the V/I tables
require numerical starting and ending values if there are other numerical
values.  Matthew did not have the suggested changes since he also discovered
a similar problem with V/T tables.  Bob stated that he would accept simple
editorial clarifications.  This could also be a review comment since Matthew
did not want to hold up ratification on this point.

Bob called on Arpad Muranyi to discuss the interpretation of Package Model 
[Number Of Sections].  Arpad noted some conflicting language in IBIS Version
3.1 and also noted that the parser reports an error, even when the number of
sections stated is greater than those in the package model file.  Bob reported
on an earlier interpretation by Stephen Peters that stated that the number of
sections is the maximum number rather than the exact number of sections.

However, Arpad pointed out some contradictory wording in the Specification
that stated that the number of sections should be the same for each pin.  The
Specification stated that sections composed of Len = 0 / sections could be
used to equalize the number for each pin.  Bob noted that the additional point
of confusion was based on whether the sections within a Fork/Endfork branch
should be counted.

Bob, Arpad, Stephen, Michael, Matthew and others engaged in a discussion on
the history and purpose of this keyword.  It currently serves the purpose of
flagging package model structures that are composed of single line segments
versus those composed of coupled matrix sections.  After several attempts at
wording and deletion of text in the specification, the agreed upon resolution
was to adopt a simple interpretation that the number of sections means the
maximum number of sections, including those within Fork/Endfork branches for
the package.  The change in wording is noted below to be included in the 
document to be ratified.

Add the text below at the end of the Usage Rules section of the [Number Of
Sections] keyword description:

  "The maximum number of sections includes sections between the Fork and
  Endfork subparameters."

Under the Usage Rules of the [Pin Numbers] keyword, the paragraph that begins
with " A section description ..." is modified.  The portion of the last
sentence below is deleted:

  "All package stub descriptions must contain the same number of sections
  however," 

but the remainder of the last part of the sentence is retained:

  "A particular section description can contain no data (i.e. the description
   is given as 'Len = 0 /')."

Bob noted that he would accept off line further simple editorial corrections.
With no further discussion, Bob called for a vote to ratify IBIS Version 3.2
with the above changes.

IBIS Version 3.2 was approved by unanimous vote.

Bob assigned himself the AR to upload the modified document to IBIS ftp site
on eda.org.

AR - Bob Ross upload the modified IBIS Version 3.2 on
 
     http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ver3.2/  [Done]

Bob raised the issue that we are now ready for formal EIA ratification.  Patti
Rusher asked whether we want EIA ratification or ANSI and EIA ratification.
The ANSI process is slightly longer.  After some discussion,  the point was
made that since IBIS Version 2.1 was an ANSI/EIA standard, we should seek
ANSI/EIA ratification directly to avoid confusion.

Patti stated that most standards organizations are now adopting free, web
based distribution methods.  Patti mentioned a JEDEC link regarding a document
and will forward the information directly to Bob for reference.  Bob stated
that all of our documents are currently on the Web, and we would favor 
continuing with this approach.

AR - Patti Rusher supply Bob Ross with the sample link. [Done] 

Patti asked if we wanted to assign IBIS Version 3.2 a new number or make it
revision "A" of the exiting document and designated ANSI/EIA-656A.  She
indicated that different versions of EDIF documents have different numbers,
and this has caused confusion.  A number of points were discussed.  The group
favored going with ANSI/EIA-656A to eliminate confusion.

D.C. Sessions stated that with ratification, semiconductor vendors now ought
to be encouraged to produce Version 3.2 level IBIS models.  Bob deferred
further discussion on this topic so we could handle other business on the
agenda.

IBISCHK3 VERSION 3.2.2
Bob Ross stated that because of vacations, the ibischk3, version 3.2.2 was
not ready yet.  The developer, Atul Agarwal, had indicated that he expected
the parser to be ready in a week.  Bob had been busy trying to address
questions raised by Atul, and he wanted committee input.

Bob state that Atul wanted clarification on BUG31 regarding changing the Error
messages to Warning messages for V/I tables.  Bob responded that this should
apply for just [Pulldown] and [Pullup] tables.  Arpad Muranyi argued that
because of some new technologies, we need to be more flexible.  After some
more discussion, we agreed to change the Error message to a Warning message
for all tables.  Bob indicated that he will communicate the revised
clarification to Atul

- BUG34 - No Error Reported for Missing V/I Table in Output Buffers (New Item)
Bob introduced Bug34.  He noted that this omission has been in all versions
of the ibischk parser starting with version 1.0.  We could check for missing
tables based on model type.  However, this would take some time to discuss
and resolve.  Bug34 was classified as Annoying, Low, and Open.  We would not
fix this for the ibischk3, Version 3.2.2 release.

- BUG35 - Model Spec Crash Related to Vinl and Vinh being Specified (New Item)
Bob classified BUG35 Severe, High, Open, but also noted that Atul had already
fixed this problem.

Michael Cohen stated that there was a package model parser bug that gave an
incorrect n-1 count in the number of sections in a package.  Arpad Muranyi
and others responded that this was the same problem that Arpad had initially
reported above and which motivated the number of sections discussion above.  
Arpad had noted that regardless of the interpretation, the current ibischk3
version 3.2.1 was giving a wrong answer and needed to be fixed.  Bob indicated
that the issue was resolved above and Atul will be notified to implement the
parser according the above discussion and approved IBIS Version 3.2 document.

TEKTRONIX IPA 510 SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION PROPOSAL
Bob introduced the subject.  At the November 6, 1998 meeting we approved 
going forward with distributing the executable.  However, there was concern,
and we raised the issue at the November 20, 1998 meeting.  We were time
limited and conducted a vote on whether to reject the proposal or to continue
the discussion.  We voted to continue the discussion.  Since we were dealing
with IBIS Version 3.2 ratification issues, we did not have adequate time to
discuss this issue at a subsequent meeting.

Syed Huq understood the vote to mean that we re-approved issuing the 
executable.  Syed reported that the executable will be ready at the end
of January.  Tektronix asked if the modified agreement had been created
and signed.

Patti Rusher had stated before this discussion began that EIA Legal would
have no problem accepting the conditions of an agreement revised to apply to
Tekronix executables only.

A discussion was held.  Bob stated that he wanted to raise the fundamental
issue of whether IBIS and EIA should be doing this.  He was concerned that
this was a former commercial product that worked only with one vendor's
hardware, was not closely related to IBIS (IBIS is not mentioned in the
product), and would be a free utility that would undermine potential 
commercial alternatives.  Bob questioned whether this was appropriate for a
public domain standards body.  Bob also stated that we need to decide so
Tektronix can respond.  If the decision is negative, then Tekronix can perhaps
find a more suitable and dedicated alternative for both the source and
executable code distribution.

Syed countered that if the utility is offered, the IBIS community is free to
distribute it or link to it like it does with other utilities.  He stated that
IPA 510 package model parameter extraction was being used for extracting the
package model values for IBIS model development.  Therefore the tool was
relevant and useful to the IBIS community.

In the limited time, many views were shared.

While time was running out at the end of the meeting, Bob called for and
conducted a vote regarding whether or not the IBIS Committee should distribute
the IPA 510 executable.

The Vote was split 4 No to 3 Yes, 1 abstention.

Before any further discussion could take place, the meeting was automatically
terminated as time ran out.

(After the meeting Bob sent a note that since the vote was split indicating
that this is still a controversial topic, and was conducted under time
pressure, he will schedule full discussion of this topic leading to a 
vote and resolution at the February 19, 1999 meeting.)

COOKBOOK STATUS
(Not Discussed)

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
(Not Discussed)  The old AR remains.

AR - Matthew Flora to issue to the IBIS reflector a short write-up on the IBIS
Model Review Committee.

OLD TOPIC - BIRD56 - RELAXATION OF THE [Series Pin Mapping] RESTRICTION
(Not discussed)  The old AR remains.

AR - Arpad Muranyi provide an IBIS model example for BIRD56.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will be an IBIS Summit Meeting at DesignCon99 from 8:30 AM
to 5 PM on Monday, February 1, 1999 at the Santa Clara Convention Center, 
Santa Clara, California in Grand Ballroom G.  

The following teleconference meeting will be on Friday, February 19, 1999
from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-56
            2111 NE 25th Ave. 
            Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            17641 NE 67th Court
            Redmond, WA 98052

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems(formerly Quad Design)
            1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================