Subject: IBIS Open Forum Minutes 26 Mar 1999

From: Matthew Flora <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 11:18:00 -0100

DATE: 3/31/99

SUBJECT: 3/26/99 EIA IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 1999 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
AMP                            (Martin Freedman) 
Applied Simulation Technology  Raj Raghuram, Norio Matsui, Neven Orhanovic*
Avanti                         Nikolai Bannov
Cadence Design                 Mike LaBonte*
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq
Compaq                         Bob Haller, Steve Coe, Shafir Rahman,
                               Maher Elasad
Cypress                        (Rajesh Manapat)
EMC Corporation                Fabrizio Zanella
Fairchild Semiconductor        Peter LaFlamme, Craig Klem
H.A.S. Electronics             (Haruny Said)
Hewlett Packard (EEsof, etc.)  Paul Gregory, Henry Wu
High Design Technology         Razvan Ene
HyperLynx                      Matthew Flora*, Kellee Crisafulli
IBM                            Greg Edlund*, Michael Cohen*, Praven Patel
Incases                        Olaf Rethmeier, Werner Rissiek, David Eagles,
                               Wilhelm Arnoldi, Ulrich Losch
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Arpad Muranyi*, Frank Kern,
                               Martin Chang, Dave Moxley, Kerry Nelson*, 
                               Jeff Day, Richard Mellitz, Peter Liou
LSI Logic (Symbios Logic)      Scott King
Mentor Graphics                Bob Ross*, Mohamed Mahmoud, Sherif Hammad,
                               Jean Oudinot, Markku Kukkanen, Martin Groeber,
                               Karine Loudet
Mitsubishi                     (Tam Cao)
Motorola                       (Ron Werner)
National Semiconductor         Milt Schwartz
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Michael Baxter, Kathy Breda
NEC                            (Hiroshi Matsumoto)
Philips Semiconductor          Todd Andersen, Peter Christiaans
Quantic EMC                    (Mike Ventham)
SiQual                         Scott McMorrow
Texas Instruments              Jean-Claude Perrin, Shankar Balasubramaniah,
                               Ramzi Ammar
Thomson-CSF                    (Jean Lebrun)
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky
Viewlogic                      Chris Rokusek, Guy de Burgh*, Cary Mandel,
                               (Jon Powell)
VeriBest                       Ian Dodd
VLSI Technology                D.C. Sessions
Zuken-Redac                    (John Berrie) 

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 1999:
3Dfx Interactive               Ken Wu
Actel Corporation              Silvia Montoya
Alcatel                        Steven Criel
Analytical Edge                Robert Easson
Applied Microelectronics       Brian Sanderson
BMW                            Friedrich Haslinger
Bogatin Enterprise             Eric Bogatin
Bosch Telecom                  Detlef Wolf
ECI Telecom                    Daniel Adar
EIA                            Patti Rusher
Electronique                   Catherine Gross
EFM Consulting                 Ekkehard Miersch
Intracon Design                Mike Osmond
FCI                            John Ellis
Litton Systems                 Robert Bremer
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Nortel Networks (& Viewlogic)  Martin Hall
Oce Printing Systems           Ernst Deiringer
Rockwell Collins               Susan Tweeton, Ron Hau
Samsung                        Jung-Gun Byun, Cheol-Seung Choi
Siemens                        Bernhard Unger, Christian Mitschke, 
                               Manfred Maurer, Peter Kaiser, Wolfram Meyer,
                               Gerald Bannert, Harmut Ibowski, Katja Zuleeg,
                               Hans Pichlmaier, Eckhard Lenski, Kortheuer Udo,
                               Christian Sporrer
Signals & Systems Engineering  Tom Hawkins
STMicroelectronics             Fabrice Boissieres, Philippe LeFevre
StorageTek                     Nick Krull
Sun Microsystems               Victor Chang
Tektronix                      Tom Brinkoetter
Teradyne                       Mikhail Khusid
VDOL                           Robert Novosel
Xilinx                         Susan Wu
(Unaffiliatied, Retired)       Bruce Wenniger

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *. Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses.
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are as
follows:
  
  Date               Bridge Number     Reservation #    Passcode
  April 16, 1999     (916) 356-9200    5-103468         9824139

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  We try to have agendas out 
7 days before each Open Forum and meeting minutes out within 7 days after.  
When you call into the meeting, ask for the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Will 
Hobbs and give the reservation number and passcode.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

-------------------------------- MINUTES -------------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
Neven Orhanovic is now at Applied Simulation Technology and is interested in
IBIS and IMIC issues.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Bob Ross reported that several new members now exist based on paid invoices:

 Avanti (also one ibischk3 parser license)
 EMC Corporation
 Fairchild Semiconductor
 Time Domain Analysis Systems
 SiQual

These companies are now listed in the Voting Members section above.  Some
other payments are still being checked.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
Bob Ross reported that Nik Bannov of Avanti has been corrected to Nikolai
Bannov in the previous minutes (March 9, 1999, February 19, 1999 and
February 1, 1999).

The ARs will be discussed during the meeting.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Bob Ross noted that there was a change in the EIA structure that could impact
the IBIS Open Forum.  Bob is seeking more information on this.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross reported that some delays in getting the official EIA IBIS Web page
updates has been resolved.  A revised logo for Applied Simulation Technology
and new logo for Siemens have been uploaded on the Poster page.

Bob reported that Syed Huq has made some roster updates.

Bob also reported that the IBIS/IMIC team (Bob, Stephen Peters, Raj Raghuram,
Norio Matsui) and IBIS Officers and several others have responded to a 
request for input for a March 22, 1999 article on IBIS and IMIC.  This will
be a cover story in the Japanese magazine Nikkei Electronics.  The editor
asked several questions, and Bob and others responded.  The article will be
in Japanese.

Arpad Muranyi asked about the status of this article and whether there will
be an English version.  Bob responded that he has asked some Mentor Graphics
personnel in Japan to provide a translation.

Bob noted that there was a brief mention of IBIS in the "Focus Report: PCB and
MCM Tools" in the March 1999 issue of Integrated System Design, pp. 48-56.

Also, the article "Stop Taking Your Models for Granted" by Cheryl Ajluni in
Electronic Design, March 8, 1999, pp. 48-56 discusses IBIS and other types of
models.

Also two articles in the March 1999 issue of Printed Circuit Design Magazine 
mention IBIS: "Designing PC Motherboards: Little Margin for Error" by Greg
Aldrich. pp. 20-23, and "Signal Integrity Software" by Keith Kowal, pp. 30-35.

Bob noted that IBIS was mentioned several news publications in writeups
associated with product press releases.

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
Bob Ross reported that Philips Semiconductor has added additional technologies
at its previously reported Logic Modeling Link:

  http://www.philipslogic.com/support/ibis/

Also several links have been moved:

Enhanced Memory Systems (Rampton) to:

  http://www.edram.com/modelreq.htm

National Semiconductor to:

  http://www.national.com/models/ibis/

and PMC-Sierra to:

  http://www.pmc-sierra.com/products/Ibis/index.html

Texas Instruments has a new link:

  http://www.ti.com/sc/docs/msp/flatlink/sim.htm

and some Data Product models found by direct Search on IBIS that do not appear
on the Data Products page.

IBM has Power PC links for the 603e, EM603e, 604e, 740 and 750 series under
the "Documentation" links (these models were formerly under other links):

  http://www.chips.ibm.com:80/products/powerpc/chips/

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
Michael Cohen for Vref, Rref and Vmeas Discussion

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- IEC 62014-1 (IBIS Version 2.1) - Bob Ross repeated a previous report that
  IEC has circulated IBIS Version 2.1 on November 6, 1998.  The Committee
  Draft for Vote (CDV) closes ballot on April 15, 1999.

- pr EIAJ ED-5302 Standard for I/O Interface Model for Integrated Circuits
  (IMIC) - Bob Ross had no futher report other than the discussion above
  regarding a contribution to the Nikkei Electronics IBIS and IMIC article.
  Bob noted that we need to consider as an agenda item how IBIS and IMIC
  should be related.  We have been deferring this discussion because of the
  other IBIS Open Forum activities and Version 3.2 and ibischk3 parser issues.

- IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation - Bob Ross noted that Jean-Claude
  Perrin planned an Experts meeting on March 12, 1999 to review a draft
  document.  Bob has not yet seen the document.

  Arpad Muranyi asked, and Bob provided a general overview of what the group
  planned to do. The group is interested in adding syntax to the IBIS format
  to allow modeling EMI generation and EMI susceptability (through internal 
  generators and transfer functions to pins).  Bob has not yet seen the
  recent details.  Bob noted that that there may also be other pending
  approaches to this from commercial vendors and from planned advances in the
  IMIC format.

- JC-16.2 Subcommittee: Modeling and Test - No report.

- IEEE P1537 Electronic Data Format Project (Previously listed as the Standard
  Component Data Sheet) - No report.

IBIS (EAST) USERS GROUP MEETINGS
Greg Edlund reported that the second conference call meeting was held on
March 19, 1999.  Accuracy Specification details were discussed.  There may be
interest in holding some IBIS User's Group face-to-face meetings again.  Greg
also noted that the Connector Group held one meeting separately after the
DesignCon99 February 1, 1999 IBIS Summit meeting.

Bob Ross noted that at the previous teleconference meeting on February 26,
1999, Ed Sayre had discussed the pending education activities.  Arpad Muranyi
asked what was planned, and Bob responded that Ed was thinking about getting
a professional educator to develop an IBIS course.  The material would then
be available to anyone and might even be adapted by commercial vendors along
with vendor specific issues.  The course could possibly be uploaded for
general distribution. 

Arpad noted that he is giving an IBIS course as part of the set of tutorials
on Circuit Simulation and Signal Integrity in Microelectronic Circuits and
Systems given April 19-21, 1999 in Phoenix, Arizona.  Apad is willing to
provide the course material, if he is permitted.

AR - Arpad Muranyi check whether he can provide his material to the IBIS 
Open Forum.

Bob noted that the next IBIS Users teleconference meeting is scheduled on
April 9, 1999.

DATE99 MARCH 9, 1999 IBIS SUMMIT MEETING FEEDBACK
Bob Ross noted that he, Stephen Peters and Guy de Burg attended the second
European IBIS Summit Meeting held in Munich, Germany at the same time as
DATE99.  Guy commented that this was a very effective meeting and appreciated
hearing about the experiences and concerns from the European vendors.  Several
people were concerned about the quality of IBIS models.  Bob elaborated that
several presentations by Siemens addressed this issue by discussing internal
model development processes and a list of new IBIS model requirements.  Also,
Bob noted that Dr. Bernhard Unger showed some extensions to his modeling
approach which he had presented at the DesignCon99 February 1, 1999 IBIS
Summit meeting to model SSO effects.  The approach is interesting since it is
based on some simple, additional waveforms and some multiplying coefficients
to the existing model.

Arpad Muranyi asked, and Bob responded that the presentations for this 
meeting are uploaded at:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/mar99/

Bob noted that Mentor Graphics, INCASES Engineering and High Design Technology
(HDT) funded the meeting.  Based on the success of this meeting, Bob expects
that another European IBIS Summit meeting will be held next year in Paris,
France associated with the DATE2000 meeting.

IBIS VERSION 3.2 EIA STANDARD PREPARATIONS
Bob Ross reported that he does not know the current status regarding setting
up an electronic balloting mechanism for ANSI/EIA-656A ratification of IBIS
Verison 3.2 per plan at the January 15, 1999 meeting.  

Bob also stated that Arpad Muranyi provided a more readable copy of IBIS
Version 3.2 in .pdf format.  Arpad noted that it contains a table of contents
for the keywords and sections.  The document is uploaded as:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/ver3.2/ver3_2.pdf

So far, no link exists to this document.  You need to go directly into the
directory to find it (and some other information).  Matthew Flora suggested
that a note be put in the current link on the EIA IBIS Home page regarding
the existence of this document.

IBISCHK3 VERSION 3.2.2 - VERSION 3.2.5
Since the February 19, 1999 meeting Version 3.2.4 has been distributed to the
companies supporting the development.  This version corrected a memory leak
problem and the Hewlett-Packard operating system version has been fixed.  Bob
Ross commented that Chris Rokusek validated this last fix using Version 3.2.4.
The bug was that ibischk3 was not able to correctly process IBIS files with
file names longer than 8 characters on Hewlett-Packard workstations.  It
worked fine for other workstations and operating systems.  IBIS Version 3.2
now supports file names up to 20 characters long.

Bob noted that ibischk3 Version 3.2.4 still has the "preliminary" tag and 
identifies itself as version 3.2.3 from the -h menu.  [After the meeting, Bob
checked that this was incorrect - he may have called an older version of
ibischk3.]  We need to issue an approved release without the "preliminary"
tag, and this should be designated Version 3.2.5.  Matthew Flora volunteered
to work with Atul Agarwal to modify the source code for the official release.

AR - Matthew Flora work with Atul Agarwal to produce and distribute the
official ibischk3 Version 3.2.5 release without the "preliminary tag.

Bob noted that while this release may not be perfect, it is stable and very
useful.  We will make and upload ibischk3 executables for this release when
it is available.

Bob stated that the paperwork has been signed regarding compensating Atul
Agarwal for his additional work.

COOKBOOK STATUS
(Not Discussed)

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE DISCUSSION
Matthew Flora indicated that he had received some simple model questions that
he could answer.  He did not think these questions needed to forwarded to the
other committee members.  Everyone supported this approach.

Matthew mentioned that several of the questions implied that people had not
been using the latest version of IBISCHK2 (v2.1.17), so when they ran
IBISCHK3, the warnings that were generated seemed new and limited to IBISCHK3
or to IBIS 3.2.  Therefore, there was concern that people would not use
IBISCHK3 for validating IBIS 2.1 models.  Matthew suggested updating the IBIS
Open Forum Web site to in someway indicate that IBISCHK3 is the recommended
parser to be used to validate any IBIS model.

Bob Ross wanted to remove the long-standing AR that Matthew provide a short
write-up on the model review committee work.  The information is available.

AR - Matthew Flora to communicate with Syed Huq regarding puttind a tag line
next to the IBISCHK3 link to indicate that the committee recommends IBISCHK3
be used for all cases instead of IBISCHK2.

OLD TOPIC - BIRD56 - RELAXATION OF THE [Series Pin Mapping] RESTRICTION
Bob Ross also removed an old AR for Arpad Muranyi to provide a sample IBIS 
model related to BIRD56.  A sample has already been provided.

BUG34 - NO ERROR REPORTED FOR MISSING V/I TABLE IN OUTPUT BUFFERS
Bob Ross gave the history of BUG34.  Under certain conditions ibischk3 does
not issue a Warning or Error message when [Pulldown] and [Pullup] tables are
missing from an output buffer.  We had classified this as Annoying, Low, and
Open.  We also did not include fixing this problem as part of the extended
ibischk3 parser project because (1) this problem has existed in all versions
of the ibischk parser, and (2) we needed time to understand what combinations
of Model_types and missing tables were to be reported.  In other words, it was
not a critical problem in practice, and it would require some work to
formulate a solution.

Matthew Flora, who submitted BUG34, further stated that he would accept a
Warning message.  Matthew also noted that the existance of the required 
[Ramp] keyword was checked.

Arpad Muranyi wondered if this was really an error since the IV tables are
optional.  Bob stated that the document makes the [Pullup] and [Pulldown]
tables optional because Open_drain (Open_sink) and Open_source model types do
not require both tables.  However, simulators needed both tables for totem
pole outputs and one table for Open_* outputs.  There are cases where only
one table is needed if the optional [Rising Waveform] and [Falling Waveform]
tables clearly indicate an Open_drain or Open_source characteristic even if
the Model_type is Output.  In this case the [Ramp] keyword is ambigous.  But
it is overridden by the waveform information.

Bob proposed that Matthew list all of the conditions where a Warning message
is needed.  This may involve grouping all Output_*, 3_state_* and I/O_*
model types and documenting the [Pullup] and [Pulldown] tables.  The reason
that a Warning is given is that there still could be sufficient information
with waveform tables is a [Pullup] or [Pulldown] table is omitted.  This 
would be issued as a revised BUG34.

AR - Matthew Flora issue a revised BUG34 to document the conditions where
Warning messages are issued.

Bob noted that this check would provide a suitable Warning.  However it still
would not capture some pathelogical problems.  An example would be having both
IV tables having meaningless data (such as 0 currents in both).

BIRD58 - DRIVER SCHEDULE KEYWORD CLARIFICATION
Arpad Muranyi stated that he issued BIRD58 because a key clarification
paragraph that existed in BIRD35.3 was not in the Version 3.2 document.  The
paragraph states that a top-level set of [Pullup], [Pulldown] and [Ramp] data
is required, but is not used.  Rather, the model is composed only of the
models referenced by the [Driver Schedule] keyword.  Arpad discovered this
omission while trying to construct an IBIS model using the information from
the Version 3.2 document.  

Arpad wanted only to provide minimal changes so as not to impact the process
to ratify IBIS Version 3.2.  Matthew Flora presented several other editorial
changes (but was confused with the sections regarding what the [Driver
Schedule] keyword delays mean).  Bob Ross noted that all of the clarifications
are editorial and are permitted as part of the formal review process.

Bob Ross also commented on some questions by Steve Kaufer of HyperLynx.  Steve
also had questions regarding how the top-level model was to be interpreted and
how the delays were to be simulated.  Bob noted that the top-level model was
required, but not used.  It could be used for validation purposes or to be
used when the simulator did not support the [Driver Schedule] keyword but
still needed a "stub" model for simulation.  Bob stated that this would not
normally be as accurate.  Arpad suggested that the top-level model could have
accurate IV tables.  Bob questioned what would be accurate since the tables
could be switched in and out.  Bob suggested an accurate VT representation so
that the end-point checks would be met using ibischk3.  However, such a table
might be non-monotonic - a possible problem with some simulators.

Bob also indicated that if both Rise_on_dly and Fall_on_dly values are given,
they are relative to the begining of the "clock" rising edge and "clock"
falling edge respectively.  Bob plans to provide a written response to these
questions on the IBIS reflector.

Matthew Flora asked if having all NA's is permissible.  Bob thought that this
was not prohibited, but that this was an ambigous case.   The scheduled model
would not switch, but the simulator would not know what state the device was
in (for example, "low" or "high" state, or also "high-Z" or "on").  This
prohibition could also be added as an editorial clarification.

The required top-level information includes overall Model_type, C_comp and
stub [Pullup], [Pulldown] and [Ramp] information.  Clamping information is
moved to the top-level so that the input mode of an I/O_* model has all of the
information visible.

After these and other comments, Bob suggested that Arpad issue BIRD58.1 with
Matthew's comments.  More detailed discussion on this topic should move to the
IBIS reflector.

VREF, RREF, VMEAS DISCUSSION
Michael Cohen expressed concern that he sees many IBIS models with incorrect,
missing or unrealistic Vref, Rref, and Vmeas entries.  He feels that many IBIS
model developers do not understand the meaning of these parameters.  For
example, he has seen Open Drain models with Rref connected to a Vref to
ground.  He has also seen Rref, but no corresponding Vmeas.

Michael suggested more discussion in the Cookbook and possibly a Version 3.2
parser check.  Bob Ross indicated that Vmeas and timing test loads are
strongly suggested for all I/O_*, 3-state_* and Output_* models, but are
technically not required for historical upward compatibility reasons.
However, several simulators really use this information.  Bob suggested that
this could be a topic for more reflector discussion (as meeting time ran out).

ONNECTOR PROPOSAL REVIEW
(Not Discussed)

ACCURACY SPECIFICATION REVIEW
(Not Discussed)

NEXT MEETING:
The following teleconference meeting will be on Friday, April 16, 1999
from
8:00 AM to 10:00 AM.
==============================================================================
                                      NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Bob Ross (503) 685-0732, Fax (503) 685-4897
            [email-masked]
            Modeling Engineer, Interconnectix BU of Mentor Graphics
            8005 S.W. Boeckman Road, Wilsonville, OR 97070

VICE CHAIR: Stephen Peters (503) 264-4108, Fax: (503) 264-4515
            [email-masked]
            Senior Hardware Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S JF1-56
            2111 NE 25th Ave. 
            Hillsboro, Oregon 97124-5961

SECRETARY:  Matthew Flora (425) 869-2320, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Senior Engineer, HyperLynx, Inc.
            17641 NE 67th Court
            Redmond, WA 98052

LIBRARIAN:  Jon Powell (805) 988-8250, Fax: (805) 988-8259
            [email-masked]
            Senior Scientist, Viewlogic Systems (formerly Quad Design)
            1385 Del Norte Rd., Camarillo, CA 93010
 
This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is 
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt, 
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, & /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt
      respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual
IBIS models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the
Electronic Information Group under:

  http://www.eia.org

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
discussions and results.  You can get on via FTP anonymous.
==============================================================================