Subject: ibis-users V1 #32
From: owner-ibis-users@ (ibis-users)
To: [email-masked]

ibis-users          Tuesday, November 4 2003          Volume 01 : Number 032

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:11:58 -0700
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38765.311E9D84
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kesav,
=20
I am sorry, but I am not a user of s2ibis, so I can't help you
with your question.  Hopefully someone else could answer them
on this list.
=20
Arpad
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
- -----Original Message-----
From: kesavp [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:53 PM
To: Muranyi, Arpad; [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

Hi Arpad/Eric,
=20
               Thank you for your suggestion. I changed the step size =
manually at the region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves =
maintaining the step sizes same for all the process corners (as =
mentioned by Erik), it is working fine.=20
=20
However when I tried the same on power clamp curves the s2ibis2 did not =
read the power clamp data. This may have happened as the sweep ranges =
for different process corners are different and the step sizes varies =
for different process corners though I am maintaining the same step size =
at the region of fast rate of change, but the extreme values of voltages =
change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each process =
corner I had to give different step sizes. May be because of this =
s2ibis2 may not be finding the voltage ranges with the same step size =
(common for all the three process corners).=20
=20
Any suggestions on how to overcome this problem.
=20
Thanking you,
- --Kesav.
=20
=20
- ----- Original Message -----=20

From: Muranyi, Arpad <mailto:[email-masked]> =20
To: [email-masked]=20
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 9:29 PM
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

Kesav,
=20
IBIS doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step size
for the tables.  You need to decide on that for yourself.
=20
However, note that you do not have to evenly space the points
along the x-axis in the tables.  This is useful for making
smaller step sizes in the regions where your curves change
fast.
=20
Be careful when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can
only give you evenly spaced x-axis for the tables.
=20
Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=20
=20
- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On =
Behalf Of kesavp
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis forum

Hi IBIS experts,

I am interested to capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground =
clamp and power clamp) range in small step size.

S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or 0.1 V step size. I would like to =
know does IBIS spec recommends any specific step size.

Could any one please let me know how to go about making VI curves for =
small step size other than default value.
=20
Thanks,
Kesav.
=20

- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.521 / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date: 9/23/2003

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38765.311E9D84
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">

<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2716.2200" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031351415-30092003>Kesav,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031351415-30092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D031351415-30092003>I am sorry,=20
but I am not a user of s2ibis, so I can't help you</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D031351415-30092003>with your=20
question.&nbsp; Hopefully someone else could answer =
them</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D031351415-30092003>on this=20
list.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031351415-30092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031351415-30092003>Arpad</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D031351415-30092003>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></F=
ONT></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> kesavp=20
[mailto:[email-masked]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 29, =
2003 9:53=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Muranyi, Arpad; =
[email-masked]<BR><B>Cc:</B>=20
[email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [IBIS-Users] query to ibis=20
forum<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Arpad/Eric,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Thank you for your suggestion. I&nbsp;changed the step size manually at =
the=20
region of fast rate of change in the ground clamp curves maintaining the =
step=20
sizes same for all the process corners (as mentioned by Erik), it is =
working=20
fine. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>However when I tried the same on power =
clamp curves=20
the s2ibis2 did not read the power clamp data. This may have happened as =
the=20
sweep ranges for different process corners are different and the step =
sizes=20
varies for different process corners though I am maintaining the same =
step=20
size&nbsp;at the region of fast rate of change, but the =
extreme&nbsp;values of=20
voltages change hence in order to cover +Vcc to +2Vcc range for each =
process=20
corner I had to give different step sizes.&nbsp;May be because of=20
this&nbsp;s2ibis2 may not be finding the&nbsp;voltage ranges&nbsp;with =
the same=20
step size (common for all the three process corners). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Any suggestions on how to overcome this =

problem.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanking you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>--Kesav.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">Muranyi, Arpad</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[email-masked]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[email-masked]">[email-masked]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, September 29, =
2003 9:29=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [IBIS-Users] query =
to ibis=20
  forum</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2>Kesav,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>IBIS=20
  doesn't specify or recommend any voltage or time step =
size</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>for the=20
  tables.&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>You need to decide on that for=20
  yourself.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>However,=20
  note that you do not have to evenly space the =
points</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>along the=20
  x-axis in the tables.&nbsp; This is useful for =
making</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>smaller=20
  step sizes in the regions where your curves change</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2>fast.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
size=3D2>Be careful=20
  when you use s2ibis, if I am not mistake, it can</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D031415815-29092003>only=20
  </SPAN><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003>give you evenly spaced x-axis =
for the=20
  tables.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D031415815-29092003></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D031415815-29092003>Arpad Muranyi</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D031415815-29092003>Intel =
Corporation</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New"><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D031415815-29092003>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</SPAN></F=
ONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D031415815-29092003><FONT face=3D"Courier New"=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
[email-masked]=20
  [mailto:[email-masked]]<B>On Behalf Of =
</B>kesavp<BR><B>Sent:</B>=20
  Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:55 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  [email-masked]<BR><B>Subject:</B> [IBIS-Users] query to ibis=20
  forum<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi IBIS experts,<BR><BR>I am =
interested to=20
  capture part of the VI curve (pullup,pulldown, ground clamp and power =
clamp)=20
  range in small step size.<BR><BR>S2IBIS tool by default takes 0.05 or =
0.1 V=20
  step size. I would like to know does IBIS spec recommends any specific =
step=20
  size.<BR><BR>Could any one please let me know how to go about making =
VI curves=20
  for small step size other than default value.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Kesav.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified =
Virus=20
  Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com">http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =
6.0.521=20
  / Virus Database: 319 - Release Date:=20
9/23/2003</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38765.311E9D84--
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:06:50 -0700
From: "Mirmak, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C387AF.E9AF6F08
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

All,

The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad=20
Muranyi of Intel Corporation.

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corporation
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C387AF.E9AF6F08
Content-Type: text/plain;
	name="BIRD_84.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Description: BIRD_84.txt
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="BIRD_84.txt"

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C387AF.E9AF6F08--
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:40:48 -0700 
From: "Beal, Weston" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Arpad,

Thanks for doing this work.  It helps get everyone working to the same spec.  It is still a bit ambiguous to me what happens when a simulator stimulus edge occurs before a delay_off time.  For example, if my driver schedule specifies a rise_on_delay of 1ns and a rise_off_delay of 15ns and the high pulse time from my simulator is 10ns.  Does the model switch to a low state 10ns after the rising edge or 15ns after the rising edge?  I would expect it to switch low at 10ns and I think (but it's a bit ambiguous) that "if they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by another event" means that the simulator stimulus falling edge would cause the model to switch low.  Is that how you interpret it and think that was the original intent?

thanks,
Weston

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mirmak, Michael [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:07 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

All,

The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad 
Muranyi of Intel Corporation.

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corporation
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:53:22 -0700
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Weston,

Having answered a few calls and interrupts and coming back to my
message, I realized that the answer to the question at the very end
should be that the definition of "event" according to BIRD84 means
that the timer DOES get reset by the falling edge in that last 
hypothetical case.  The 10 ns pulse and the 15 ns delay essentially
creates an over clocked situation, so the output would end up high
all the time (not switching).

Sorry for the momentary confusion...

Arpad
===================================================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: Muranyi, Arpad 
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:12 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Weston,

Thanks for your comment and question.

I have to ask you a question before I can answer yours.  What is in the
Fall_on/off_dly parameters in your example?  NA or 0?

If they are both NA, then there are no "events" generated by a falling edge
stimulus.  Having said that, using your numbers the rising edge will turn on
the pullup 1 ns after the stimulus went high and at the same time turn off
the pulldown.  Using the same rising edge stimulus, the 15 ns rise off delay
parameter will turn off your pullup 15 ns after this rising edge stimulus
went high, and at the same time turn on the pulldown.  Nothing will happen
until the next rising edge stimulus arrives.  The falling edge stimulus is
ineffective.

On the other hand, the situation would be different if there was a zero in
the Fall_on_dly (or Fall_off_dly) parameter.  Note, however, that it doesn't
make sense to use zero for both Fall_on and Fall_off parameters at the same
time!!!  Also note that there are only 5 combinations of NAs and numbers which
are permitted by the spec.  For this reason, the next two conditions are
hypothetical, but I will go through them to make the point clear.

Let's see what would happen if the Fall_on_dly was zero, and the Fall_off_dly
still an NA:

The pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising stimulus and at the same
time the pulldown would be turned off.  The falling edge stimulus would immediately
turn off the pullup and turn on the pulldown (at 10 ns) because of the 0 delay
in the Fall_on_dly parameter.  The 15 ns off delay in the Rise_off_dly parameter
would just redo this same thing, but since the "another event", i.e. the falling
edge stimulus already did that, nothing would happen at 15 ns.

Now, if the Fall_on was NA and the Fall_off zero, the pullup would turn on 1 ns
after the first rising edge stimulus, and the pulldown would be turned off at the
same time.  The falling edge stimulus would immediately want to turn on the pullup
and turn off the pulldown, but the "another event", i.e. the previous rising edge
stimulus already did that, so nothing will happen at 10 ns.  However, the 15 ns
Rise_off delay is still ticking, so at 15 ns after the first rising edge stimulus
the pullup will be turned off and the pulldown will be turned on.

Now that I think of the BIRD I just wrote, I wonder whether the definition of "event"
should mean that the timer gets reset by the falling edge in this last case or not.
I have to think about that.  Other than that, does this answer your question?

Thanks,

Arpad
==================================================================================
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:11:49 -0700
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Weston,

Thanks for your comment and question.

I have to ask you a question before I can answer yours.  What is in the
Fall_on/off_dly parameters in your example?  NA or 0?

If they are both NA, then there are no "events" generated by a falling edge
stimulus.  Having said that, using your numbers the rising edge will turn on
the pullup 1 ns after the stimulus went high and at the same time turn off
the pulldown.  Using the same rising edge stimulus, the 15 ns rise off delay
parameter will turn off your pullup 15 ns after this rising edge stimulus
went high, and at the same time turn on the pulldown.  Nothing will happen
until the next rising edge stimulus arrives.  The falling edge stimulus is
ineffective.

On the other hand, the situation would be different if there was a zero in
the Fall_on_dly (or Fall_off_dly) parameter.  Note, however, that it doesn't
make sense to use zero for both Fall_on and Fall_off parameters at the same
time!!!  Also note that there are only 5 combinations of NAs and numbers which
are permitted by the spec.  For this reason, the next two conditions are
hypothetical, but I will go through them to make the point clear.

Let's see what would happen if the Fall_on_dly was zero, and the Fall_off_dly
still an NA:

The pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising stimulus and at the same
time the pulldown would be turned off.  The falling edge stimulus would immediately
turn off the pullup and turn on the pulldown (at 10 ns) because of the 0 delay
in the Fall_on_dly parameter.  The 15 ns off delay in the Rise_off_dly parameter
would just redo this same thing, but since the "another event", i.e. the falling
edge stimulus already did that, nothing would happen at 15 ns.

Now, if the Fall_on was NA and the Fall_off zero, the pullup would turn on 1 ns
after the first rising edge stimulus, and the pulldown would be turned off at the
same time.  The falling edge stimulus would immediately want to turn on the pullup
and turn off the pulldown, but the "another event", i.e. the previous rising edge
stimulus already did that, so nothing will happen at 10 ns.  However, the 15 ns
Rise_off delay is still ticking, so at 15 ns after the first rising edge stimulus
the pullup will be turned off and the pulldown will be turned on.

Now that I think of the BIRD I just wrote, I wonder whether the definition of "event"
should mean that the timer gets reset by the falling edge in this last case or not.
I have to think about that.  Other than that, does this answer your question?

Thanks,

Arpad
==================================================================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Beal, Weston
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:41 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Arpad,

Thanks for doing this work.  It helps get everyone working to the same spec.  It is still a bit ambiguous to me what happens when a simulator stimulus edge occurs before a delay_off time.  For example, if my driver schedule specifies a rise_on_delay of 1ns and a rise_off_delay of 15ns and the high pulse time from my simulator is 10ns.  Does the model switch to a low state 10ns after the rising edge or 15ns after the rising edge?  I would expect it to switch low at 10ns and I think (but it's a bit ambiguous) that "if they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by another event" means that the simulator stimulus falling edge would cause the model to switch low.  Is that how you interpret it and think that was the original intent?

thanks,
Weston

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mirmak, Michael [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:07 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

All,

The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad 
Muranyi of Intel Corporation.

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corporation
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:59:13 -0700 
From: "Beal, Weston" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Arpad,

The important bit I get out of this explanation is that the simulator stimulus edge does not constitute and event.  An event is a stimulus applied to the scheduled driver as specified by the delays in the driver schedule syntax.  I think this is an important definition to include in the BIRD.

Thanks,
Weston

- -----Original Message-----
From: Muranyi, Arpad [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:12 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Weston,

Thanks for your comment and question.

I have to ask you a question before I can answer yours.  What is in the
Fall_on/off_dly parameters in your example?  NA or 0?

If they are both NA, then there are no "events" generated by a falling edge
stimulus.  Having said that, using your numbers the rising edge will turn on
the pullup 1 ns after the stimulus went high and at the same time turn off
the pulldown.  Using the same rising edge stimulus, the 15 ns rise off delay
parameter will turn off your pullup 15 ns after this rising edge stimulus
went high, and at the same time turn on the pulldown.  Nothing will happen
until the next rising edge stimulus arrives.  The falling edge stimulus is
ineffective.

On the other hand, the situation would be different if there was a zero in
the Fall_on_dly (or Fall_off_dly) parameter.  Note, however, that it doesn't
make sense to use zero for both Fall_on and Fall_off parameters at the same
time!!!  Also note that there are only 5 combinations of NAs and numbers which
are permitted by the spec.  For this reason, the next two conditions are
hypothetical, but I will go through them to make the point clear.

Let's see what would happen if the Fall_on_dly was zero, and the Fall_off_dly
still an NA:

The pullup would turn on 1 ns after the first rising stimulus and at the same
time the pulldown would be turned off.  The falling edge stimulus would immediately
turn off the pullup and turn on the pulldown (at 10 ns) because of the 0 delay
in the Fall_on_dly parameter.  The 15 ns off delay in the Rise_off_dly parameter
would just redo this same thing, but since the "another event", i.e. the falling
edge stimulus already did that, nothing would happen at 15 ns.

Now, if the Fall_on was NA and the Fall_off zero, the pullup would turn on 1 ns
after the first rising edge stimulus, and the pulldown would be turned off at the
same time.  The falling edge stimulus would immediately want to turn on the pullup
and turn off the pulldown, but the "another event", i.e. the previous rising edge
stimulus already did that, so nothing will happen at 10 ns.  However, the 15 ns
Rise_off delay is still ticking, so at 15 ns after the first rising edge stimulus
the pullup will be turned off and the pulldown will be turned on.

Now that I think of the BIRD I just wrote, I wonder whether the definition of "event"
should mean that the timer gets reset by the falling edge in this last case or not.
I have to think about that.  Other than that, does this answer your question?

Thanks,

Arpad
==================================================================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of Beal, Weston
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 8:41 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

Arpad,

Thanks for doing this work.  It helps get everyone working to the same spec.  It is still a bit ambiguous to me what happens when a simulator stimulus edge occurs before a delay_off time.  For example, if my driver schedule specifies a rise_on_delay of 1ns and a rise_off_delay of 15ns and the high pulse time from my simulator is 10ns.  Does the model switch to a low state 10ns after the rising edge or 15ns after the rising edge?  I would expect it to switch low at 10ns and I think (but it's a bit ambiguous) that "if they were not already turned ON and OFF, respectively, by another event" means that the simulator stimulus falling edge would cause the model to switch low.  Is that how you interpret it and think that was the original intent?

thanks,
Weston

- -----Original Message-----
From: Mirmak, Michael [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 5:07 PM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD84 - Driver Schedule Clarifications

All,

The following proposed BIRD, number 84, is submitted on behalf of Arpad 
Muranyi of Intel Corporation.

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corporation
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:51:20 +0200
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] input termination

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
- --=_alternative 0036607DC1256DB4_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello IBIS experts,

I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination.

What is the best way to model this internal circuitry?
What are the alternatives?
And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators?

In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to 
my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the 
differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff 
pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have 
default values normally).

With kind regards,
Erik.

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334
- --=_alternative 0036607DC1256DB4_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello IBIS experts,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">What is the best way to model this internal circuitry?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">What are the alternatives?</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators?</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally).</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With kind regards,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Erik.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Ir. Erik van der Ven<br>
Room DB1032<br>
Business Line Networking Infrastructure<br>
Philips Semiconductors BV<br>
Gerstweg 2<br>
6534 AE Nijmegen<br>
The Netherlands<br>
Phone: +31-24-3534334</font>
- --=_alternative 0036607DC1256DB4_=--
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:06:09 -0400
From: Timothy Coyle <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] input termination

[email-masked] wrote:
> 
> Hello IBIS experts,
> 
> I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination.
> 
> What is the best way to model this internal circuitry?
> What are the alternatives?
> And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators?
> 
> In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally).
> 
> With kind regards,
> Erik.
> 
> Ir. Erik van der Ven
> Room DB1032
> Business Line Networking Infrastructure
> Philips Semiconductors BV
> Gerstweg 2
> 6534 AE Nijmegen
> The Netherlands
> Phone: +31-24-3534334

Hi Erik,
First, you have to specify the Vinl and Vinh for your single-ended receiver inputs, or you will get parser warnings. Most IBIS simulators
will use the Vdiff value, as the spec states that this shall override the Vinh and Vinl parameters. 

There's been previous discussion on this list (and SI List I believe) on how to include internal termination. One way is to use a series resistor, but
not all IBIS simulators support this. Others have suggested ways to extract the IBIS data with the resistor included. Search the Mentor Graphics
website or the IBSI website - Hazem Hegazy did a good presentation on LVDS modeling with internal terminations.

Regards,
Tim
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:18:14 -0700
From: "Mirmak, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS Interconnect Modeling (ICM) Specification 1.0 now available

The IBIS Open Forum is pleased to announce that the IBIS Interconnect 
Modeling Specification (ICM) version 1.0 has been approved and is now 
available for download.  The specification text can be found in a 
variety of formats at:

http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/icm_ver1.0/

The ICM specification permits model authors to represent a 
wide variety of interconnects, including connectors, cables and 
packages, in an ASCII-based, human-readable format.  
Interconnect topologies can be described using implicit (tree) or 
explicit (nodal) connections, and conductor swathing is supported.  
Coupling can be represented by RLGC matrices or S-parameter data 
in Touchstone(R) format. 

A golden parser is in development.

Please feel free to address comments to the IBIS reflector, to me 
or to any officer of the IBIS Open Forum.

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corporation
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:17:44 -0700
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot definition

Perry,

Try looking up the subparameters "Si_location" and "Timing_location"
to see if those would help you figuring out what the answer is.
I personally don't know the answer, and don't have the time to
look it up for you.

Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
====================================================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: Perry Qu [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 6:06 AM
To: IBIS group
Subject: [IBIS-Users] static/dynamic overshoot/undershoot definition

Hi,

Can someone let me know in IBIS spec, where the static/dynamic
overshoot/undershoot is defined ? At packaging pins or at die ?

Thanks

Perry

- --
Perry Qu

Design & Qualification       |      600 March Road
Alcatel Canada               |      Ottawa, ON K2K 2E6, Canada

DID: (613) 7846720           |      FAX: (613) 5993642

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 13:22:06 +0200
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Determination of Ccomp with input network

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
- --=_alternative 003EB015C1256DB7_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello IBIS expert,

I want to determine a value for Ccomp for a differential LVDS input.

When I "look" into the input terminals I see a network of resistors and 
capacitors in front of the input transistors. There are also series 
resistors present and thus there is capacitance at both sides of these 
resistors. How should I determine Ccomp? Will this be a good 
representation of the load behaviour?

With kind regards,

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334
- --=_alternative 003EB015C1256DB7_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello IBIS expert,</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I want to determine a value for Ccomp for a differential LVDS input.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">When I &quot;look&quot; into the input terminals I see a network of resistors and capacitors in front of the input transistors. There are also series resistors present and thus there is capacitance at both sides of these resistors. How should I determine Ccomp? Will this be a good representation of the load behaviour?</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With kind regards,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Ir. Erik van der Ven<br>
Room DB1032<br>
Business Line Networking Infrastructure<br>
Philips Semiconductors BV<br>
Gerstweg 2<br>
6534 AE Nijmegen<br>
The Netherlands<br>
Phone: +31-24-3534334</font>
- --=_alternative 003EB015C1256DB7_=--
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:22:50 +0200
From: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] input termination

This is a multipart message in MIME format.
- --=_alternative 00443FBBC1256DB8_=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hello Giovanni,

Yes, I have a Spectre netlist with the termination included. I do not use 
s2ibis. I do not understand how you use s2ibis since it is not suitable 
for differential signals, and I do not see how it should model the input 
termination.

In your second case: do you use the series model type? As far as I 
understand from the discussions here it is not implemented in most 
simulators. 

Can anyone tell if the [series pin mapping] is implemented in simulation 
tools?

With kind regards,
Erik

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334

[email-masked]
10/03/03 03:59 PM

        To:     Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: [IBIS-Users] input termination
        Classification: 

Hi Erik,
 
Do you have a spice netlist with the internal termination included?  In 
the past I have modeled this two different ways:
In one case I used spice2ibis because I had the internal termination 
included.
In the second case I added a series resistor between the two input pins in 
my IBIS model.
Both ways worked well.
 
Let me know if you have any questions,
Gio

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 2:51 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] input termination

Hello IBIS experts, 

I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination. 

What is the best way to model this internal circuitry? 
What are the alternatives? 
And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators? 

In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to 
my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the 
differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff 
pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have 
default values normally). 

With kind regards, 
Erik. 

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334

- --=_alternative 00443FBBC1256DB8_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"

<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Hello Giovanni,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Yes, I have a Spectre netlist with the termination included. I do not use s2ibis. I do not understand how you use s2ibis since it is not suitable for differential signals, and I do not see how it should model the input termination.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">In your second case: do you use the series model type? As far as I understand from the discussions here it is not implemented in most simulators. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Can anyone tell if the [series pin mapping] is implemented in simulation tools?</font>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">With kind regards,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Erik</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Ir. Erik van der Ven<br>
Room DB1032<br>
Business Line Networking Infrastructure<br>
Philips Semiconductors BV<br>
Gerstweg 2<br>
6534 AE Nijmegen<br>
The Netherlands<br>
Phone: +31-24-3534334</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>[email-masked]</b></font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">10/03/03 03:59 PM</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS@EMEA2</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RE: [IBIS-Users] input termination</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Classification: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Hi Erik,</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Do you have a spice netlist with the internal termination included? &nbsp;In the past I have modeled this two different ways:</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">In one case I used spice2ibis because I had the internal termination included.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">In the second case I added a series resistor between the two input pins in my IBIS model.</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Both ways worked well.</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Let me know if you have any questions,</font>
<br><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">Gio</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<b><br>
From:</b> [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, October 03, 2003 2:51 AM<b><br>
To:</b> [email-masked]<b><br>
Subject:</b> [IBIS-Users] input termination<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Hello IBIS experts,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
I have to model an LVDS input with internal termination.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
What is the best way to model this internal circuitry?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
What are the alternatives?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
And are the above implementations suitable for most IBIS simulators?</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
In an input model Vinl and Vinh can be specified. This does not apply to my case since the absolute values are not of impotance, only the differential voltage matters. Is it enough to specify Vdiff in the [diff pin] keyword? Will Vinl and Vinh be ignored then? (since they also have default values normally).</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
With kind regards,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Erik.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Ir. Erik van der Ven<br>
Room DB1032<br>
Business Line Networking Infrastructure<br>
Philips Semiconductors BV<br>
Gerstweg 2<br>
6534 AE Nijmegen<br>
The Netherlands<br>
Phone: +31-24-3534334</font>
<br>
<br>
- --=_alternative 00443FBBC1256DB8_=--
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:46:21 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] about package elements

Hi ibis experts,
      I want to know how Pin Package elements are
excluded while drawing the I-V and V-t data from an IC
by Experimental method(not by Spice models!).
regards,
anil.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online.
Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:09:58 -0600
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Open forum minutes (10/03/03)

DATE: 10/09/03

SUBJECT: October 3, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer                 Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology  Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design                 Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte,
                               Val Mandruson, Hung Pham,
                               Todd Westerhoff
Fairchild Semiconductor        (Graham Connolly)
Hitachi ULSI Systems           Kazuyoshi Shoji
Huawei Technologies            (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters*, Michael Mirmak*,
                               Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson
LSI Logic                      Frank Gasparik
Matsushita (Panasonic)         Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics                [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd*, Guy de Burgh,
                               John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal 
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor         [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle]
NEC Electric Corporation       (Itsuki Yamada)
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre 
Philips Semiconductor          (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke
Siemens (& Automotive) AG      Eckhard Lenski, Michael Kindij, 
                               Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, 
                               Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, 
                               Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, 
                               Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert
Signal Integrity Software      Bob Haller, Barry Katz, Doug Burns
Sigrity                        [Raj Raghuram]
Synopsys                       Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher
Teraspeed                      Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino,
                               Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross*
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Zuken (& Incases)              Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003:
Agilent Technologies           Herbert Lage
Brocade                        Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu
Conexant                       Gary Felker
EADS CCR                       Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM                            Ekkehard Miersch
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez,
                               Simba Julian
Fraunhofer IZM                 Ege Engin
Fujitsu                        Tadashi Arai
GEIA                           (Chris Denham)
Independent                    Kelly Green*, Luca Giacotto
Infineon Tech AG               Christian Sporrer
Marvell Semiconductor          Itzik Peleg
NetLogic Microsystems          Eric Hsu
North Carolina State Univ.     Ambrish Varma* 
Plexus                         Joseph Socha
Politechnico de Torino         Igor Stievano
Qlogic                         Larry Barnes
Sintecs BV                     Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis
SiQual                         (Rob Hinz)
Sun Microsystems               Tim Coyle*
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. 
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are 
as follows:

       Date          Telephone Number    Bridge #    Passcode
 October 21, 2003          TBD
 October 24, 2003     1-916-356-2663        3        190-3009

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  Meeting agendas are
typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum.  Minutes are 
typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting.
When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and 
passcode at the automated prompts.  If asked by an operator, please
request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak.
For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

- -------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.

CALL FOR PATENTS
Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the
IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1 or ICM specifications. No patents were declared.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Michael Mirmak reported that, as a result of recent payments, membership 
now stands at 27 organizations, with a twenty-eighth member in processing.  
The new members are reflected in the membership roster on the web site
and in the list above.

Michael also provided a financial update.  Based upon the data from the
GEIA for the year through the end of August, the Open Forum revenues are
approximately $2000 below budget, due to royalty revenues expected but
not received.  However, the Open Forum is also approximately $1500 below
budgeted expenses for the year.  An additional payment to the parser
developer to conclude work on IBISCHK4 and additional revenue from a new 
membership (see above) are expected.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND AR'S
The October 3, 2003 meeting minutes were approved without objection.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
Lynne Green announced that she and Arpad Muranyi would be presenting a
"webinar" hosted by Cadence Design Systems on October 8.  The subject
is differential IBIS modeling techniques.

Bob Ross mentioned a new book, "Engineering Electromagnetic Compliance" 
published by Wiley and Sons.  Chapter 14 contains significant material
on IBIS modeling.  More information on the book can be found at:

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0780347439.html

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Michael Mirmak noted that Syed Huq has updated the IBIS web site to
list the new Open Forum member companies (see above).

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
No new models received.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
No new issues.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
  (formerly, IEC 93/67/NP IBIS and EMC Simulation)
  No update.

- - JEDEC Activity Report
  No update. 

PCB EAST SUMMIT DISCUSSION
Lynne Green has distributed the third call for papers to the PCB East
IBIS Summit.  Six presentations are planned: the Chair's
Report, a presentation from Timothy Coyle on their modeling 
efforts and a web page proposal, an IBIS Quality Committee report
from Robert Haller, a differential buffer update from Arpad Muranyi,
and a short ICM example from Michael Mirmak.   Luncheon sponsorship 
is still needed, though.

The summit agenda will be published on or around October 14.  Presentation
materials are due to Lynne Green and Bob Ross by Thursday, October 16.
Bob Ross has volunteered to provide format conversion services.

DESIGNCON 2004 SUMMIT DISCUSSION
Michael Mirmak reported that a new agreement for IBIS Summit support
has been received from the IEC.  Discussions are planned in the immediate
future regarding whether some of the complementary items may be 
traded for refreshments for the Summit participants. 

In addition, sponsors are needed for lunches at both PCB East and 
DesignCon 2004.  Open Forum members and participants are encouraged to 
inquire at their organizations regarding co-sponsorship of the summit.  
Sponsors will be prominently mentioned in Summit presentations,
announcements, and the minutes.  

IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS
Michael Mirmak reported that payments from all parser sponsors have
been received by the GEIA.  The parser code set will be provided
to the sponsors within a week.

A test version of IBISCHK4 is available for download:

http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta

A review of the BUG reports still to be addressed was conducted
during the Technical Discussion portion of the meeting (see below).

IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Bob Ross reported that meetings continue every two weeks.   The
last meeting took place on September 23.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that no new models have 
been received by the committee since the last meeting.

S2IBIS3
Ambrish Varma reported that he has completed work on the
Series MOSFET code for S2IBIS3.  A new release plus documentation
is being prepared.

S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from:

http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm

Feedback on the current beta version is appreciated and encouraged.
Ambrish will distribute a call for feedback on the latest code
using the reflector.

NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
No new issues.

BIRD84: DRIVER SCHEDULE CLARIFICATIONS
Arpad Muranyi introduced BIRD84, which addresses two aspects of the
[Driver Schedule] keyword definitions in 4.0:

- - subparameters of scheduled models are ignored, similarly to
  c_comp
- - "events" used to trigger the delays (such as Rising_off_delay, etc.)
  are better defined

Due to these clarifications, [Driver Schedule] will not permit buffers
to be "overclocked" in simulation.  Bob Ross added that the keyword
was never intended to permit overclocking behavior, in that all time
delays were assumed to be shorter than the clock period of the driver.

Feedback from Weston Beal has been received and may be incorporated into
a revised BIRD84.1.

IBIS ICM SPECIFICATION REVIEW
Michael Mirmak announced that the final editorial mark-up of the ICM 1.0
specification had been completed.  The 1.0 specification is now
available on the IBIS web site, in Microsoft Word*, Adobe Acrobat* and
ASCII text formats.

Kelly Green announced that parser work has begun and is nearing 25%
completion.  He anticipates that a beta version will be ready for testing
by the end of October.  The current code is being developed under UNIX
but will be converted to ANSI C for porting to other operating systems.
Mentor Graphics has offered to compile a Sun Solaris* version, while
Cadence Design Systems will compile a Microsoft Windows* executable.
Bob Ross and Scott McMorrow of Teraspeed will provide a realistic set of 
data to be used in an example model.

BIRD83: SERIES ELEMENT CLARIFICATIONS
Michael Mirmak introduced BIRD83, which addresses two aspects of the
treatment of series elements in 4.0:

- - the [Series MOSFET] keyword is explicitly required before every use
  of the Vds subparameter
- - any use of the "function_table_groups" column under [Series Pin Mapping]
  requires the presence of [Series Switch] elsewhere under that component

Bob Ross suggested that additional detail explaining exactly what text
changed from 4.0 in the new BIRD may be added in the Analysis section
at the end of the BIRD.  However, a new BIRD filing is not required.

IBIS VERSION 4.1 DISCUSSION
John Angulo is completing work on a BIRD to document the proper usage
of [Ramp] data for the [External Model] keyword.  The BIRD will also
clarify the use of native IBIS [Model] subparameters within 
[External Model]. Although discussed in an earlier meeting, no change
to the treatment of c_comp is anticipated; it will still be optional in
[External Model] and will not be necessary or permitted under 
[External Circuit].

Michael Mirmak proposed that the official "readings" of the specification
text begin at the next Open Forum meeting, with an approval vote
to be held after the third reading.  BIRD83, BIRD84 and the expected 
[Ramp] keyword clarification BIRD could be considered in parallel with
the readings.  Lynne Green suggested that the specification text be
stable for at least two of the readings, although Bob Ross commented
that minor text changes should not prevent an immediate start to the
readings.

A draft version of IBIS version 4.1 is available on the web.  Both an 
ASCII text and an Adobe PDF version are available at:

  http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/wip/

IBISCHK4 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
The BUG reports still open are BUG68, BUG73, BUG75, BUG76, BUG78,
and BUG80.  Of these, BUG80 will not be addressed in the IBISCHK4 parser
(see below) and BUG78 will not be fixed.  Code to fix BUG73 has been developed
by John Angulo and provided to the developer but has not yet been included 
in the latest parser code.  BUG68, BUG75, and BUG76 will be checked by 
their respective owners.

It is also unknown whether all the required 4.0 features have been 
implemented in the new code.  Michael Mirmak will confirm the BUG treatment 
status and the support of 4.0 features with the parser developer.  John 
Angulo has accepted the AR to check the fixes in the next code release.

BUG80 - [Model Selector] and [Diff Pin] Ordering
John Angulo introduced BUG80.  When a model contains a [Diff Pin] keyword
placed after a [Model Selector], errors regarding an "orphan component" and
an "orphan data line" are produced by the parser.  While the parser error
messages may need to be clarified, the specification does not clearly
explain the scope of the [Diff Pin] and [Model Selector] keywords 
relative to the [Component] keyword.  This relationship is clarified by
the separate "tree" documents showing the IBIS keyword hierarchy.
The BUG was classified as annoying, low priority and open, but will
not be fixed in the 4.0 parser.  A BIRD which either clarifies the
scope of the keywords involved or which formally incorporates the entire
tree hierarchy into the specification is being contemplated.

NEXT MEETING:
The next meeting will take place during the IBIS Summit at North East 
Systems Associates on Tuesday, October 21, starting at 9 AM US Eastern Time.  
A regular Open Forum teleconference has also been scheduled for October 24 
from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time.  Votes regarding the 
approval of both BIRD83 and BIRD84 are scheduled.

============================================================================
                               NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046
            [email-masked]
            Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S FM6-45
            1900 Prairie City Rd.
            Folsom, CA  95630

VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871
            [email-masked]
            Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
            320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016

SECRETARY:  Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475
            [email-masked]
            Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc.
            8000 S. Federal Way
            Mail Stop: 1-711
            Boise, ID 83707-0006
        
LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
            [email-masked]
            Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
            1924 North Burke Drive
            Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA 
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
      subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>

      In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
      subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>

      Help and other commands:
      help

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
      bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS 
models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic 
Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis directory on eda.org for more information on previous 
discussions and results.  Logins using anonymous FTP are accepted.

* Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners.
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:35:06 +0530
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell

Hello,

    I want to make IBIS file of a programmable cell, this cell have 2ma,
4ma, 6ma and 8ma driving capability, but having one model name. Can
anyone help me to find out how can I put all 4 driving  information in my
IBIS file.

With Best Regards
Akhilesh
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:40:25 -0700
From: "Mirmak, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell

Akhilesh,

I would recommend using the [Model Selector] keyword.  This will enable
you 
to associate separate [Model]s, one for each of your drive current
values, 
with a single signal name and pin.

Best of luck!

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corp.
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]] On
Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:05 AM
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell

Hello,

    I want to make IBIS file of a programmable cell, this cell have 2ma,
4ma, 6ma and 8ma driving capability, but having one model name. Can
anyone help me to find out how can I put all 4 driving  information in
my
IBIS file.

With Best Regards
Akhilesh
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 13:50:45 -0700
From: "Mirmak, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] BIRD85 - Slew Time Estimate Clarifications

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38EA7.02F06665
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The following BIRD, Slew Time Estimate Clarifications, is posted on=20
behalf of John Angulo, Mentor Graphics Corp.

- - Michael Mirmak
  Intel Corp.
  Chair, EIA/IBIS Open Forum

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38EA7.02F06665
Content-Type: text/plain;
	name="bird85.txt"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Description: bird85.txt
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="bird85.txt"

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C38EA7.02F06665--
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:53:44 -0500
From: Sudheer B S <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] series switch with terminator 

Hi    All

I have a quection  related to  series switch  which  has terminator 
model associated with it
The C_Comp value is accounted in both the switch model and terminator model
Is it necessary to account  the value of C_Comp  in both the  buffer 
model  ?
I  feel  C_Comp value is accounted  twice in this  model

I have furthur quections also on this

How the C_Comp value is measured  in the series switch model ?

Why Clamping  curvers are required  for  Terminator i/p  Model  ?
 
Any  materials availible  for this kind of modelling ?

****************pin mapping in switch model **********
[Pin]  signal_name  model_name   R_pin     L_pin        C_pin
|
2       1A1         TERM      0.06039    5.09918nH    0.96155pF

**************** switch model   **********
[Model] SWITCH1
Model_type Series_switch
C_comp                        9.000pF   NA     NA

****************terminator model   **********
[Model] TERM
Model_type Terminator
|
C_comp                     5.500pF   NA     NA 

Regards
SUDHEER

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:17:42 -0400
From: "Lynne Green" <[email-masked]>
Subject: re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS model Error

Hello Muthu Lakshmi,  

You might want to let Cypress know that they can send models for review
by the IBIS Model Review Committee.  More information is at
http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/support.htm.

Best regards,
Lynne

Dr. Lynne Green
Vice Chair, IBIS
Cadence Design Systems

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 4:10 AM
To: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: [IBIS-Users] IBIS model Error

Hello Muthu Lakshmi, 

I think there is something wrong with your IBIS model. The DC end points
calculated from the I-V tables should match the V-T end points (logic
levels). If the error is within 2% you should get a warning, otherwise
an error. The difference you mention is very big. 

The DC end points are calculated from the I-V tables (therefore you
don't see the end points of the V-T table). The I-V tables are derived
by sweeping a voltage at the output and measuring the resulting current.
By applying a certain load the voltages from the logic high and low
level are calculated from the pull-up and pull-down curve (and of course
they should be near the waveform end point voltages). The V-T data is
used to describe the transition between the logic levels calculated from
the I-V data. 

I would suggest that you contact Cypress to ask if this model is OK. 

With kind regards, 

Ir. Erik van der Ven
Room DB1032
Business Line Networking Infrastructure
Philips Semiconductors BV
Gerstweg 2
6534 AE Nijmegen
The Netherlands
Phone: +31-24-3534334 

[email-masked] 
Sent by: 
[email-masked] 
07/28/03 05:32 AM         
        To:        [email-masked] 
        cc:        (bcc: Erik van der Ven/NYM/SC/PHILIPS) 
        Subject:        [IBIS-Users] IBIS model Error 
        Classification:         

Hi All, 

I need IBIS expert's advice on the following. 

I get the following warning when checking the IBIS model. 

Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Rising Waveform] 
     with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture]=0V 
     has TYP column DC endpoints of  0.00V and  0.38v, but 
     an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields 
     different voltages ( 1.14V and  1.06V), 
     a difference of 99.99% and 64.28%, respectively. 

Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Falling Waveform] 
     with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture]=0V 
     has TYP column DC endpoints of  0.00V and  0.38v, but 
     an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields 
     different voltages ( 1.14V and  1.06V), 
     a difference of 99.99% and 64.28%, respectively. 

Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Rising Waveform] 
     with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_min]=0V 
     has MIN column DC endpoints of  0.00V and  0.37v, but 
     an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields 
     different voltages ( 1.09V and  0.93V), 
     a difference of 99.99% and 60.23%, respectively. 

Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Falling Waveform] 
     with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_min]=0V 
     has MIN column DC endpoints of  0.00V and  0.37v, but 
     an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields 
     different voltages ( 1.09V and  0.93V), 
     a difference of 99.99% and 60.23%, respectively. 

Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Rising Waveform] 
     with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_max]=0V 
     has MAX column DC endpoints of  0.00V and  0.39v, but 
     an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields 
     different voltages ( 1.77V and  1.83V), 
     a difference of 100.00% and 78.72%, respectively. 

Warning - Model bp_usb_hs: The [Falling Waveform] 
     with [R_fixture]=45 Ohms and [V_fixture_max]=0V 
     has MAX column DC endpoints of  0.00V and  0.38v, but 
     an equivalent load applied to the model's I-V tables yields 
     different voltages ( 1.77V and  1.83V), 
     a difference of 100.00% and 79.26%, respectively. 

Please tell me the impact of this warning in simulation. I use XTK for
the simulation. Eventhough the rise and fall VT curve values range from
0V to 0.38V in the IBIS model, I get 1.04V to 1.14V wave form. How is
this related with this. I am using Cypress "CY7C65640" hub controller's
IBIS model. 

Awaiting your earliest reply. 

Note: One IBIS parser gives the above warnings and another parser gives
them as Errors. 
       I do not know whether files can be attached with this mail. If it
is OK, I can send  the IBIS model. 

thanks & regards
K.Muthu Lakshmi (KML)

SCM Microsystems (India) Pvt. Ltd.
email: [email-masked]
Web: www.scmmicro.com 
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:05:37 -0400
From: "Lynne Green" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Summit at PCB East, 21 October 2003

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                       IBIS SUMMIT
                         AGENDA
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

              I B I S   S U M M I T   M E E T I N G

Time/Date:  Tuesday, October 21, 2003,  9:00 AM to 5:00 PM

Location:   North East Systems Associates
            5 Lan Drive
            Westford, MA 01886

Teleconference: 916-356-4261
            Bridge: 1
            Passcode: 619-3933

Those requiring toll-free or international access must register
with Kathy Breda ([email-masked]) at least 24 hours in advance.

Content:    Presentations and Discussions

Purpose:    Solicit and Exchange IBIS Model Related Information and
            Ideas.

Sponsors:   IBIS Open Forum

PCB Design Conference East
            October 20 - 24, 2003
            Holiday Inn Boxborough 
            242 Adams Place 
            Boxborough, MA 01719 
            
            See <http://www.pcbeast.com/> for more information.

BACKGROUND

PCB East is the premier East Coast event dedicated exclusively
to PCB design and engineering professionals.  Topics of current
interest to the EIA IBIS Open Forum are addressed at PCB East.

This meeting will be conducted as a formal IBIS Summit Meeting.
Presentations are expected to be available and archived in an
electronic format, and minutes of the meeting will be issued.
Any pending formal decisions (votes) will be announced at least
two weeks prior to the meeting.

AGENDA

All times US Eastern Daylight
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

9:00 AM     Refreshments & Sign In

9:30 AM     Call to Order 
            - Introductions
            - Welcoming Remarks
              Ed Sayre, North East Systems Associates
            - Opens for New Issues and Discussion Topics
 
9:45 AM     IBIS Chair's Report
            Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation
 
10:00 AM    IBIS Quality Committee Update
            Robert Haller, Signal Integrity Software

10:30 AM    Break
 
10:45 AM    IBIS User Experiences
            Timothy Coyle, Sun Microsystems
 
11:15 AM    S2IBIS3 - Past, Present and Future
            Ambrish Varma, North Carolina State University

11:45 AM    Lunch - (Hosted by IBIS)
 
1:00 PM     An ICM Example Using a Semiconductor Device Package
            Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation

1:30 PM     Use of [Ramp] in IBIS 4.1
            Lynne Green, Cadence Design Systems

2:00 PM     Details on True Differential Buffer Characterization 
            Revisited
            Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corporation

2:45 PM     Break
 
3:00 PM     Open Discussion and Ad Hoc Topics
            All
 
4:45 PM     Concluding Items
            - Next Open Forum Meeting October 24, 2003
 
5:00 PM     End of IBIS Summit Meeting
 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------

CALL FOR PARTICIPANTS

People involved in IBIS Model development, EDA tool development,
and digital circuit design are invited to participate in the Summit
meeting. If you plan to participate, please register with the
information below:

   Name:
   E-mail address:
   Company:
   Telephone:
   Attending in Person?  Or by Phone?

Send to:
    Kathy Breda ([email-masked]).

LIST OF NEARBY HOTELS

See <http://www.pcbeast.com/travel_info/> for travel directions,
hotels and other information.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:04:19 -0700
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell

Try using the [Model Selector] keyword.

Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
=======================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of [email-masked]
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:05 AM
Cc: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS file of a programmable cell

Hello,

    I want to make IBIS file of a programmable cell, this cell have 2ma,
4ma, 6ma and 8ma driving capability, but having one model name. Can
anyone help me to find out how can I put all 4 driving  information in my
IBIS file.

With Best Regards
Akhilesh
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:00:59 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Ramp data by direct measurement

Hi experts,
   I am trying to get IBIS data by Direct Lab
measurement. Since for space application ICs, SPICE
models are not available. I want to know how to get
V-T data(Ramp, Rising and Falling waveforms) by Direct
measurement method(Lab setup).
rgds,
anil.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online.
Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:54:51 +0200
From: "Lior Dagan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] how do I run open drain block?

Hello, suppose I want to run IBIS model open drain block, how do I do it?
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:24:21 -0700
From: "Ebert, Gregory J" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Ramp data by direct measurement

I used a digital scope that had the ability to export data
into a spreadsheet. In my case, I overlayed this with data
from simulations to generate a plot that showed simulations
bounded silicon performance.

Be aware that package parasitics and the loading of the scope
are affecting the signal that is captured. Also, due to process
variations, you won't get the full picture as some material is
bound to be slower or faster than the device you characterized.

>    I am trying to get IBIS data by Direct Lab
> measurement. 
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:16:10 -0400
From: "Lynne Green" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Important Reminder on IBIS Summit

If you are planning to attend the IBIS Summit by teleconference, please
remember to register with Kathy Breda ([email-masked]).

Those requiring toll-free or international access must register at least
24 hours in advance.

Thank you.

Lynne Green

Vice Chair, IBIS
Cadence Design Systems

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:23:11 +0200
From: "Lior Dagan" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Rload

When I run my model on spectrequest, the simulator assumes that r_fixture is shunt connected to a 50 ohms load.
How do I disconnect the default 50 ohms load?
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:54:13 +0200
From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] IBIS to Pspice

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C393CB.7442B9C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi evryone,

I try for a while to convert IBIS files to Pspice v8.0. Is not working.
I tryed IBIS2SPICE from Intusoft but it was impossible to import the =
.lib file in my Pspice.
Hase enybody tried to do this? Please help it is verry inportand to do =
this.

Thanks in advance,

Cris Badea
- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C393CB.7442B9C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1226" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi evryone,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I try for a while to convert IBIS files =
to Pspice=20
v8.0. Is not working.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I tryed IBIS2SPICE from Intusoft but it =
was=20
impossible to import the .lib file in my Pspice.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hase enybody tried to do this? Please =
help it is=20
verry inportand to do this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cris =
Badea</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C393CB.7442B9C0--

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:30:19 +0100 (BST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?anil=20kumar?= <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Query

Hi Experts,
             If SPICE model is not given, how to
generate IBIS model for that IC (other than Lab or 
Direct measurement) ? Or. Is not possible to generate
IBIS model with out SPICE model (other than Direct
measurement ) of an IC?
Please answer to these Questions.
with regards,
anil.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online.
Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:42:59 -0700
From: "Mirmak, Michael" <[email-masked]>
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Agenda, IBIS Open Forum Teleconference for October 24

                  IBIS Open Forum Meeting Agenda 
                       for October 24, 2003

          Telephone Number    Bridge        Passcode 
           1-916-356-2663       3           190-3009

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  When calling 
into the meeting, provide the reservation number and passcode at 
the automated prompts.  If asked by an operator, please request 
to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak. 

For international numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak.

8:00 Check-In, Intros, Announcements                       Mirmak 

     - Intros of New IBIS Participants, Meeting Quorum     Mirmak 
     - Call for Patents (IBIS 4.0, 4.1, ICM)               Mirmak 
     - Membership Update and Treasurers Report             Mirmak 
     - Review of Previous Meeting's Minutes (and ARs)      Mirmak 
         October 3, 2003 Open Forum Minutes 
     - Miscellany/Announcements                            All 
     - Press & Web Page Updates                            Huq, All 
     - New Models Available, Library Update                Leventhal 
     - Opens for New Issues                                All 

8:15 Administrative and Project Discussions 

     International/External Progress 
     - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuits Electromagnetic 
       Model Proposal (IEC 93/67/NP IBIS 
       and EMC Simulation)                                 Perrin/Peters

     - JEDEC Committee Report                              Green 

     PCB East Summit Summary                               Mirmak 

     DesignCon 2004 Summit Planning                        Mirmak 

     European DATE Summit Planning                         Ross

     IBIS Version 4.0 Parser Status                        Mirmak

     IBIS Quality Committee Report                         Haller/Green 

     IBIS Model Review Committee                           Green 

     S2IBIS3 Status                                        Varma/Ross 

     ICM Specification and Parser Status                   Green/Mirmak
     - BIRD, BUG process discussion

     New Administrative Issues                             All 

8:45 Technical Discussion 

     BIRD83: Series Element Clarifications                 Mirmak, All 
     - Call for Vote

     BIRD84: Driver Schedule Clarifications                Muranyi, All 
     - Call for Vote

     BIRD85: Slew Time Clarifications                      Angulo, All

     IBIS Version 4.1 Discussion                           All 
     - First Formal "Reading"

     IBISCHK4 Status                                       Mirmak/Angulo

     - Status of final BUG68

     New Technical Issues                                  All 

9:50 Wrap Up and Next Meeting Plans                        Mirmak 
     - November 14, 2003 Open Forum

9:55 Sign Off 
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:57:45 -0700
From: "Muranyi, Arpad" <[email-masked]>
Subject: RE: [IBIS-Users] Query

Anil,

If you have a data book with enough information it may be
possible to type up the IV curves and edge rates by hand
and make an IBIS model that way.  But usually you are
better off measuring the necessary information in the
lab or using SPICE.  The accuracy of the data book method
will most likely be the lowest.  The lab measurements could
be more accurate than SPICE as far as matching the actual
device, but could include some noise which can be eliminated
with SPICE, and the measurements may not cover all the ranges
and process corner skews you would like to have.  SPICE
would be the best from that perspective, but your data will
only be as accurate as the SPICE model is.

Arpad Muranyi
Intel Corporation
==============================================================

- -----Original Message-----
From: [email-masked] [mailto:[email-masked]]On
Behalf Of anil kumar
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 1:30 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Query

Hi Experts,
             If SPICE model is not given, how to
generate IBIS model for that IC (other than Lab or 
Direct measurement) ? Or. Is not possible to generate
IBIS model with out SPICE model (other than Direct
measurement ) of an IC?
Please answer to these Questions.
with regards,
anil.

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your partner online.
Go to http://yahoo.shaadi.com
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 15:51:13 -0700
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] Open forum minutes (10/24/03)

DATE: 10/28/03

SUBJECT: OCTOBER 24, 2003 EIA IBIS Open Forum Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer                 Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology  Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design                 Lynne Green*, Lance Wang
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte,
                               Val Mandruson, Hung Pham,
                               Todd Westerhoff
Fairchild Semiconductor        (Graham Connolly)
Hitachi ULSI Systems           Kazuyoshi Shoji
Huawei Technologies            (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Michael Mirmak*,
                               Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson
LSI Logic                      Frank Gasparik*
Matsushita (Panasonic)         Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics                [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd, Guy de Burgh*,
                               John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal 
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff*
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor         [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle]
NEC Electric Corporation       (Itsuki Yamada)
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre, Kathy Breda, Michael Baxter
Philips Semiconductor          (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke
Siemens (& Automotive) AG      Eckhard Lenski*, Michael Kindij, 
                               Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, 
                               Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, 
                               Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, 
                               Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert
Signal Integrity Software      Bob Haller, Barry Katz, Doug Burns
Sigrity                        [Raj Raghuram]
Sun Microsystems               Tim Coyle
Synopsys                       Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher
Teraspeed                      Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino,
                               Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross*
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Zuken (& Incases)              Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003:
Agilent Technologies           Herbert Lage
Brocade                        Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu
Conexant                       Gary Felker
EADS CCR                       Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM                            Ekkehard Miersch
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez,
                               Simba Julian
Fraunhofer IZM                 Ege Engin
Fujitsu                        Tadashi Arai
GEIA                           (Chris Denham)
Independent                    Luca Giacotto, Kelly Green, Shinichi Maeda
Infineon Tech AG               Christian Sporrer
Marvell Semiconductor          Itzik Peleg
NetLogic Microsystems          Eric Hsu
North Carolina State Univ.     Ambrish Varma 
Plexus                         Joseph Socha
Politechnico de Torino         Igor Stievano
Qlogic                         Larry Barnes
Sintecs BV                     Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis
SiQual                         (Rob Hinz)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. 
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are 
as follows:

       Date          Telephone Number    Bridge #    Passcode
 November 14, 2003    1-916-356-2663        1        477-8778

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  Meeting agendas are
typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum.  Minutes are 
typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting.
When calling into the meeting, provide the reservation number and 
passcode at the automated prompts.  If asked by an operator, please
request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak.
For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

- -------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------
INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
No new participants.

CALL FOR PATENTS
Michael Mirmak called for any patents or pending patents related to the
IBIS Version 4.0, 4.1 or ICM specifications. No patents were declared.

MEMBERSHIP UPDATE AND TREASURER'S REPORT
Michael Mirmak announced that, as of October 9, membership payment from Sun 
Microsystems was accepted, bringing the Open Forum officially to 28 members.  
The GEIA has provided a financial report through the end of October 
showing positive revenue versus expenses for the year so far (approximately 
$300).  Bob Ross pointed out that GEIA's fiscal year is not the same as the 
federal government, but corresponds to the calendar year.  As a result, the 
budget must cover expenses in November and December.  Bob noted that the 
Open Forum should consider itself exactly on budget for the year and that 
this was a positive development. 

Michael mentioned that any budgeting for the end of 2003 needs to take into 
account reimbursement to NESA for the PCB East summit lunch and final 
payment to Atul Agarwal for his IBISCHK4.0 parser work.

REVIEW OF MINUTES AND ARS
The October 3, 2003 meeting minutes were approved with one change: Bob Ross 
noted that the previous minutes incorrectly noted that the minutes from the 
"October 3" meeting and not the "September 12" meeting were approved.  This 
correction will be made to the on-line minutes.

MISCELLANY/ANNOUNCEMENTS
None.

PRESS AND WEB PAGE UPDATES
Bob Ross suggested that additional links should be added to the eigroup.org 
web site to direct visitors to the IBIS 4.1 review text.  In addition, the 
current link on the EDA.org site to the directories and files previously 
available through anonymous FTP no longer works, as anonymous FTP has been 
discontinued on EDA.org.  Bob proposed that a new link to a formal HTML 
directory of files be added to the EDA.org IBIS site.

Bob Ross also mentioned that a new book by Eric Bogatin, called "Signal 
Integrity Simplified," contains a chapter with a significant discussion on 
IBIS.  A summary of the book is available from the publisher:

  http://vig.prenhall.com/catalog/academic/product/0,4096,0130669466,00.html

NEW MODELS AVAILABLE, LIBRARY UPDATE
No new models received.

OPENS FOR NEW ISSUES
No new issues.

INTERNATIONAL/EXTERNAL PROGRESS
- - IEC 62014-3 (ICEM) Integrated Circuit Electromagnetic Model Proposal
  No update.

- - JEDEC Activity Report
  Lynne Green noted that the JEDEX 2004 conference is being planned for 
  April 15 and April 16, 2004.  More information can be found at:

  http://www.jedex.org/

PCB EAST SUMMIT SUMMARY
Michael Mirmak summarized the events at the PCB East Summit, held on October 
21.  Attendance was good, with 18 people from 12 organizations 
participating.  The quality of technical presentations and discussion was 
high, with excellent suggestions from the participants as to future actions 
on S2IBIS3 and ICM, among other activities.  Michael again thanked NESA's 
Kathy Breda and Ed Sayre in addition to Lynne Green for their help in making 
the PCB East IBIS Summit a success.

The presentations given at the summit can be found on the IBIS web at:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct03/

DESIGNCON 2004 SUMMIT DISCUSSION
Michael Mirmak reported that most activities relating to IBIS co-sponsorship 
of DesignCon have been completed, although discussions regarding 
refreshments still continue.  Guy deBurgh confirmed that he is still 
planning to attend and will be bringing the IBIS booth.  He requested that 
IBIS members contact him with any logo updates.

Bob Ross suggested that the booth would provide an excellent forum for 
discussion and distribution of the ICM specification.  Bob also mentioned 
that lunch arrangements should be finalized as soon as possible; the expense 
is likely to be relatively high (around $1000) due to the lunch being 
provided at the convention site.  

Lynne Green mentioned that an announcement of the first call for papers 
should be arranged for mid-November.  In addition, she and Michael agreed to 
complete a written appeal to members for sponsorship contributions for 
lunch at the summit.

EUROPEAN DATE SUMMIT PLANNING
Bob Ross reported that he and Ralf Bruening of Zuken have been continuing to
plan for a European IBIS Summit at DATE 2004.  The DATE Summit is currently 
scheduled for Friday, February 20 in Paris.  Eckhard Lenski noted that he 
would have to inquire regarding his own attendance and asked whether any 
IBIS officers might participate.  Lynne Green may be able to attend 
personally if her visit could be coordinated with other Cadence European
activities. Ralf is completing the logistical arrangements for the location, 
refreshments, etc., but expects that rather large contributions would be 
needed from several member companies to make the event happen. 

IBIS VERSION 4.0 PARSER FUNDING AND STATUS
Michael Mirmak reported that he had discussed the parser status with Atul 
Agarwal, the parser developer.  All 4.0 features have been included and only 
two BUG reports remain to be resolved in the code.  Atul is willing to 
distribute a beta release with the latest updates once fixes to BUG68 and 
BUG73 are decided upon by the Open Forum.  If this beta meets with the Open 
Forum's approval, this code would become the final 4.0 parser and all 
IBISCHK4 activities could be closed.

Bob Ross noted a few small issues regarding the 4.0 features in the current 
code, including extra spaces in package model names and a typographical error 
in one warning report.  These will be forwarded to Atul for inclusion in the 
beta code.

The alpha version of IBISCHK4 is available for download:

  http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/ibischk4_beta

A review of the BUG reports still to be addressed was conducted
during the Technical Discussion portion of the meeting (see below).

IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that meetings continue every two weeks, with the next
meeting scheduled for November 4. Lynne noted that a status update from 
the Committee was presented during the PCB East IBIS Summit.

IBIS MODEL REVIEW COMMITTEE
Lynne Green reported that no new models have been received by the committee 
since the last meeting.

S2IBIS3
Michael Mirmak mentioned that a full update of S2IBIS3 developments was 
provided in a formal presentation by Ambrish Varma at the PCB East IBIS 
Summit.

S2IBIS3 beta executables can be downloaded from:

  http://www.ece.ncsu.edu/erl/ibis/s2ibis3/s2ibis3.htm

Feedback on the current beta version is appreciated and encouraged.
Ambrish will distribute a call for feedback on the latest code
using the reflector.

IBIS ICM STATUS
Lynne Green confirmed that an alpha test version of the ICM 1.0 parser will 
be available in early November.  Michael Mirmak reported that a BIRD and BUG 
filing procedure and text are being created for ICM, with much the same 
format.  Bob Ross suggested that additional web subdirectories would be 
required to store the filed reports.  Names such as IBIRD and IBUG are being
considered for the new report templates.

NEW ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUES
No new issues.

BIRD83: SERIES ELEMENT CLARIFICATIONS
Michael Mirmak reported that, outside of formatting suggestions by Bob Ross, 
no comments have been received on BIRD83.  Bob Ross noted that a technical 
issue remains: if the column header "function_table_groups" is sufficient to
require the use of the [Series Switch Groups] keyword, or whether the header 
and appropriate data must both be present.  Michael agreed that this should 
be clarified in the text, but only after the behavior of the parser is 
confirmed.

Bob added that the original text that the BIRD changes should be noted in 
the BIRD itself.  In addition, the change marks are usually rendered as "|*" 
as opposed to "*|" in most BIRDs.   Michael noted that there were no explicit
links between [Series Switch Groups], [Series MOSFET] and the [On] and [Off] 
keywords.  Bob suggested that the specification language implies that, if no 
limit or relationship is explicitly noted, none is intended.

The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by Michael Mirmak.  A 
BIRD 83.1 version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for 
discussion at the next Open Forum meeting.

BIRD84: DRIVER SCHEDULE CLARIFICATIONS
Arpad Muranyi noted that BIRD84 consists of two portions.  The first, a
clarification of the subparameters allowed in the top-level and scheduled
models, has generated no comments.  The second part, defining "event" and
describing how "events" trigger scheduled models, has generated one set of
comments on the IBIS reflector which Arpad found ambiguous.  Despite Arpad's 
efforts, no additional information has been forthcoming from the comments' 
author.

Bob Ross mentioned that the text describing events as not being held to the
next clock cycle conflicts with the ASCII drawing provided.  Treatment of
overclocked buffers was never intended by the original [Driver Schedule]
keyword definition.  John Angulo also noted that a one-sentence definition
of "event" may not be enough to clarify its use.  A cautionary note 
regarding [Driver Schedule] and overclocked buffers may be necessary.

The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by Arpad.  A BIRD 84.1 
version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at 
the next Open Forum meeting.

BIRD85: Slew Time Clarifications
John Angulo introduced BIRD85, which addresses the use of the [Ramp]
keyword within [External Model].  The BIRD alters the interpretation of
BIRD75.8 to make [Ramp] a requirement for [External Model]s; however, the
data under [Ramp] in this case may be collected under conditions 
different than those recommended by the "Notes on Data Derivation"
elsewhere in the Specification.  The [Ramp] data would be used in the
[External Model] context to improve simulation efficiency and crosstalk
estimation by providing an initial timestep target to the simulator.

Michael Mirmak observed that, while the additional use of [Ramp] data
was necessary for [External Model] simulation efficiency, models were
already being created which inappropriately normalize [Ramp] data or
otherwise misinterpret the specification requirements.  Lynne Green
commented that, while the load for [Ramp] must be resistive, the text
language should be tightened to clarify how the loading is different from
that explained in the data derivation notes.  Bob Ross noted that the 
word "slew" was used without definition and that the Rload usage and 
voltage termination should be explained more fully.

The current BIRD text was withdrawn from consideration by John.  A BIRD 85.1 
version, addressing the issues above, will be distributed for discussion at 
the next Open Forum meeting.

IBIS VERSION 4.1 FIRST READING
Michael Mirmak announced the first official "reading" of the IBIS 4.1
specification, and called for comments.  None were issued at the meeting.

Bob Ross reiterated his suggestion that a new link to the 4.1 text be added 
to the web site.  In addition, he suggested that the text of the revised
BIRDs described above be added to the draft 4.1 document as soon as possible,
in addition to BIRD 82.2.  Further, there are several references in the
current 4.1 text to the 80 character per line limit which was recently 
expanded to 120 characters.  Explicit references to the 80 character limit 
should be removed.

Michael Mirmak suggested that the term "deprecated" be added to non-preferred
keywords such as [Driver Schedule] and [TT], similar to the format used by
the W3 Consortium in describing HTML.  Further, he suggested that a 4.1
"tree" showing the hierarchy of keywords, be added to the 4.1 specification,
similar to that used for ICM 1.0.  Bob agreed that both might be useful,
but that they should be deferred until the 4.2 specification.

A draft version of IBIS version 4.1 is available on the web.  Both an 
ASCII text and an Adobe PDF version are available at:

  http://www.vhdl.org/pub/ibis/wip/

IBISCHK4 & BUG TRACKING STATUS
John Angulo reported that he had written a recommendation for addressing the 
problems reported in BUG68 and had revised his recommendation for BUG73.  
BUG68 is addressed by forcing the parser to ignore small differences in the
I-V curve result data table.  BUG73 is addressed by ignoring non-monotonic
I-V table data points except those closest in value to the V-T data table
endpoint.  Treatment of ECL models will need detailed discussion in a 
future Open Forum meeting.

Both updated code fragments have been provided to Atul Agarwal for inclusion 
in the beta parser release.

NEXT MEETING:
The next Open Forum teleconference has been scheduled for November 14
from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Standard Time.  Votes regarding the 
approval of BIRD83, BIRD84 and BIRD85 are scheduled.

============================================================================
                               NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046
            [email-masked]
            Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S FM6-45
            1900 Prairie City Rd.
            Folsom, CA  95630

VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax (425) 451-1871
            [email-masked]
            Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
            320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016

SECRETARY:  Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475
            [email-masked]
            Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc.
            8000 S. Federal Way
            Mail Stop: 1-711
            Boise, ID 83707-0006
        
LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
            [email-masked]
            Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
            1924 North Burke Drive
            Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA 
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
      subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>

      In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
      subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>

      Help and other commands:
      help

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
      bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS 
models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic 
Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis/directory.html file on eda.org for more information on 
previous discussions and results.  

* Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners.
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 08:46:23 -0700
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] [IBIS] IBIS Summit minutes (10/21/03)

DATE: 10/29/03

SUBJECT: OCTOBER 21, 2003 EIA IBIS Summit Meeting Minutes

VOTING MEMBERS AND 2003 PARTICIPANTS LIST:
Ansoft Corporation             (Eric Bracken)
Apple Computer                 Kim Helliwell
Applied Simulation Technology  Fred Balistreri
Cadence Design                 Lynne Green*, Lance Wang*
Cisco Systems                  Syed Huq, Michael LaBonte*,
                               Val Mandruson, Hung Pham,
                               Todd Westerhoff
Fairchild Semiconductor        (Graham Connolly)
Hitachi ULSI Systems           Kazuyoshi Shoji*
Huawei Technologies            (Jiang Xiang Zhong)
Intel Corporation              Stephen Peters, Michael Mirmak*,
                               Arpad Muranyi*, Eric Magnusson
LSI Logic                      Frank Gasparik
Matsushita (Panasonic)         Atsuji Ito
Mentor Graphics                [Bob Ross], Ian Dodd*, Guy de Burgh,
                               John Angulo*, Mike Donnelly, Weston Beal 
Micron Technology              Randy Wolff
Molex Incorporated             Gus Panella
Motorola                       (Rick Kingen)
National Semiconductor         [Milt Schwartz], [Tim Coyle]
NEC Electric Corporation       (Itsuki Yamada)
North East Systems Associates  Edward Sayre*, Kathy Breda*, Michael Baxter*
Philips Semiconductor          (D.C. Sessions), Stephanie Goedecke
Siemens (& Automotive) AG      Eckhard Lenski*, Michael Kindij, 
                               Burkhard Muller, Katja Koller, 
                               Andre Goerisch, Manfred Maurer, 
                               Bernard Unger, Amir Motamedi, 
                               Hartmut Ibowski, Gerald Bannert
Signal Integrity Software      Bob Haller*, Barry Katz, Doug Burns
Sigrity                        [Raj Raghuram]
Sun Microsystems               Tim Coyle*
Synopsys                       Warren Wong, Edmund Cheng
Texas Instruments              Thomas Fisher*
Teraspeed                      Scott McMorrow, Tom Dagostino,
                               Kevin Simpson, Bob Ross*
Time Domain Analysis Systems   Dima Smolyansky, Steve Corey
Zuken (& Incases)              Michael Schaeder, Ralf Bruening

OTHER PARTICIPANTS IN 2003:
Agilent Technologies           Herbert Lage
Brocade                        Frank Yuan, Yongrue Yu
Conexant                       Gary Felker
EADS CCR                       Alix de la Villeguerin
EFM                            Ekkehard Miersch
EMC Corporation                Brian Arsenault, John Fernandez,
                               Simba Julian
Fraunhofer IZM                 Ege Engin
Fujitsu                        Tadashi Arai
GEIA                           (Chris Denham)
Independent                    Luca Giacotto, Kelly Green, Shinichi Maeda*
Infineon Tech AG               Christian Sporrer
Marvell Semiconductor          Itzik Peleg
NetLogic Microsystems          Eric Hsu
North Carolina State Univ.     Ambrish Varma* 
Plexus                         Joseph Socha
Politechnico de Torino         Igor Stievano
Qlogic                         Larry Barnes
Sintecs BV                     Hans Klos, Bob te Nijenhuis
SiQual                         (Rob Hinz)
Via Technologies               (Weber Chuang)
Xilinx                         Susan Wu

In the list above, attendees at the meeting are indicated by *.  Principal
members or other active members who have not attended are in parentheses. 
Participants who no longer are in the organization are in square brackets.

Upcoming Meetings:  The bridge numbers for future IBIS teleconferences are 
as follows:

       Date          Telephone Number    Bridge #    Passcode
November 14, 2003    1-916-356-2663        1        477-8778 

All meetings are 8:00 AM to 9:55 AM Pacific Time.  Meeting agendas are
typically distributed seven days before each Open Forum.  Minutes are 
typically distributed within seven days of the corresponding meeting.
When calling into the meeting, provide the bridge number and 
passcode at the automated prompts.  If asked by an operator, please
request to join the IBIS Open Forum hosted by Michael Mirmak.
For international dial-in numbers, please contact Michael Mirmak.

NOTE: "AR" = Action Required.

- -------------------------------- MINUTES -----------------------------------

INTRODUCTIONS AND MEETING QUORUM
The IBIS Summit Meeting was held in Westford, Massachusetts at the
offices of North East Systems Associates (NESA) in conjunction with the PCB 
East Conference.  The summit was co-sponsored by IBIS and NESA. 18 people
representing 12 organizations attended, including 7 people who 
attended via teleconference.

The notes below capture some of the content and discussions.  The meeting
presentations and other documents are uploaded at:

  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/summits/oct03/

Michael Mirmak opened the meeting and asked everyone in the room and on the
teleconference bridge to introduce themselves.  The group was 
well-attended by semiconductor vendors and model providers, EDA tool 
vendors and users of IBIS models.  Michael thanked Kathy Breda and Ed Sayre
of North East Systems Associates for their logistical support on-site and 
Lynne Green for her assistance with calls for papers and setting the agenda.  
Finally, Michael thanked the presenters and participants for attending.

Ed Sayre, CEO of North East Systems Associates, welcomed the participants
and expressed his hope that the summit would be a productive and useful
experience.

Michael asked if there were any new issues or discussion items to add to
the agenda.  No issues were raised.

PRESENTATIONS AND DISCUSSION TOPICS
The rest of the meeting consisted of presentations and discussions.  These
notes capture some of the content and discussion.  More details are 
available in the documents uploaded to the location noted above.

IBIS CHAIR'S REPORT
Michael Mirmak, Intel Corporation
Michael reviewed the recent work of the IBIS Open Forum and IBIS community
at large.  The Open Forum continues to be strong, with 28 paid members
and nine purchasers of Golden Parser (IBISCHK) licenses.  In addition,
specification development activities are on-going, with the approval of
the IBIS Interconnect Modeling Specification (ICM) 1.0 and the first
formal "readings" of the IBIS 4.1 specification about to begin.  The 
IBIS Quality Committee continues to provide feedback on models and
modeling issues, and a new IBISCHK4 parser is expected to pass beta
testing before the end of the year.

While IBIS Open Forum work has been successful, many challenges remain
ahead for IBIS as a whole.  In order to better support IBIS tool
vendors, model makers, and users, cookbooks for both ICM and IBIS 4.0
must be completed and distributed as soon as possible.  In addition,
the Open Forum must continue to expand and enhance a global IBIS 
community; support of the European DATE summit must continue, but
the Open Forum should also consider holding "Electronic Roadshow"
presentations in time zones convenient to Europe and Asia.  This would
help bring summit-quality presentations to other parts of the globe
while not incurring the costs associated with international travel.

Ed Sayre suggested that more IBIS technical materials be made available
to universities and university students, at perhaps a junior or senior
level.  This would enhance interest in behavioral modeling and promote
IBIS as a whole new way of looking at semiconductors.  Mike LaBonte also
suggested that IBIS member company Synopsys be encouraged to present
at future summits on its HSPICE*-related IBIS support. 

IBIS QUALITY COMMITTEE UPDATE
Bob Haller, Signal Integrity Software (SiSoft)
Bob reviewed the purpose of the Quality Committee and summarized the
backgrounds of the various participants.  He then listed the various
"problem areas" of IBIS, where accuracy has become difficult due to 
misinterpretations or limitations of the IBIS specification; these 
include C_comp, on-die termination and matching between I-V and V-t
curves.

On-die termination prompted some discussion.  While Bob noted that IBIS
was not necessarily intended to include these termination effects, he
suggested that sweeping I-V curves over the entire operating range
of the part is sufficient to ensure these effects' inclusion.  Ed 
Sayre noted that, as memory chips are the highest volume component in
production today, user configurability of termination, strength and
slew rate are serious issues.  On overclocking, Bob suggested that
cutting out "excessive dead time" in V-t curves helps to ensure 
the usability of IBIS models at higher frequencies.  However, he also
suggested that an explicit maximum frequency limit may be needed.

Ed Sayre observed that, in general, manufacturers might not always be
the best source for accurate modeling information, as IBIS is treated
more as a "marketing feature" than a technical requirement.

On accuracy checking, Michael Mirmak suggested that a parser specification,
including the parser's assumptions and outside of the actual IBIS
specification, should be written to inform the IBIS community of how the
specification is being interpreted.

Bob reviewed the current Quality Committee model quality rating levels 
and solicited feedback on Committee documents.  Accuracy questions are
encouraged, as are more participant papers on accuracy issues.

Bob concluded his presentation by noting that the next Quality Committee 
meeting will be held on Tuesday, November 9.  He observed that the 
meeting had good European and Japanese participation and he hoped this
would continue.

For additional information on the quality committee and to be included on
the mailing list send mail to [email-masked].  The IBIS quality
committee web site is available on the IBIS web page or at

  http://www.sisoft.com/ibis-quality

IBIS USER EXPERIENCES
Timothy Coyle, Sun Microsystems
Timothy reviewed the current state of IBIS from a model maker's and model
user's perspective.  At present, IBIS 3.2 is familiar and firmly entrenched
in the industry.  While the concepts are familiar, most models represent
extremes of very good or very poor quality, even among those which pass the
Golden Parser.  Poor accuracy and quality for model data is not detected by
the parser in most cases; in addition, many manufacturers treat generation
of IBIS data as a marketing effort or as an adjunct to design rather than as
a separate step performed by a specific expert.  

Timothy summarized his recommended procedure for verifying outside model
accuracy:
- - determine your vendors' IBIS generation procedures 
- - request tester or other verification data
- - ask about their trust in their modeling data (would they fail a system
  design based on their modeling data?)

As an adjunct activity to promote greater accuracy and information exchange,
Timothy has created a separate web site for IBIS developers, to be announced 
in several weeks.  The purpose of the web site will be to provide
information exchange in answer to the frequent questions of speed and
accuracy asked in relation to IBIS versus transistor-level modeling tools.
Comments and suggestions for the site may be provided to
[email-masked].

S2IBIS3 - PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE
Ambrish Varma, North Carolina State University
Ambrish Varma summarized the current progress on S2IBIS3 development.  At
present, the tool is Java-based to ensure maximum compatibility across
all platforms.  All keywords supported by S2IBIS2 are included, plus
support for series elements, such as [Series MOSFET], has just been added.
For the longer term a graphical user interface, perhaps including
parser and model library support, could be included, with macromodeling
features to enable power supply noise analysis and the like.  A
specification document is being written to summarize how S2IBIS3 approaches
IBIS creation and the assumptions made outside of IBIS requirements.
Ambrish concluded by soliciting feedback on the current beta.

Lynne Green observed that, while SSO and power/ground bounce information
would be highly useful, the original IBIS specification contained no
keywords to support inclusion of the data.  Simulations which show
these effects rely on approaches and assumptions outside of the IBIS
keywords. Mike LaBonte suggested that the current command (CMD) file
information could be exported into the appropriate sections of the output
file as comments, to inform the user as to how the data was derived.  In
response to an inquiry about I-V sweeping, Ambrish observed that DC sweeps
are used to generate I-V curve tables; this raised concern about the
differences between transient and DC sweep assumptions in biasing and
convergence.

Ed Sayre noted with some concern that the future work needed to
complete S2IBIS3 work was not funded.  A detailed discussion was deferred
until the end of the meeting.

AN ICM EXAMPLE USING A SEMICONDUCTOR DEVICE PACKAGE
Michael Mirmak, Intel Corp
Michael presented a typical application of ICM 1.0 to semiconductor 
designs, a ball-grid array (BGA) package.  He reviewed the structure of
BGA packages, how they might be modeled under IBIS 3.2/4.0 and showed
a detailed ICM version of a differential pair within a BGA package.
The particular example used nodal mapping of RLGC section data.
Clearly, ICM resolves the problem of the IBIS package format, where
model authors had to choose between creating multi-segment models of
a package or creating a fully coupled model.  Michael noted that,
for full compatibility with current multi-conductor RLGC modeling
approaches, support for additional RLGC data tables showing frequency-based
variations should be added to a future ICM revision.  Michael also
noted that Kelly Green, the ICM parser developer, expects to have
an alpha release ready in early November.

Several people pointed out a minor typographical error in the ICM
model presented.  Also, there were a few inquiries as to how the nodal
format connects separate sections together when each section differs
in the number of nodes or interconnects modeled.  Finally, there were
several questions regarding whether the resistance matrices, which show
diminishing values in ohms for off-diagonal terms, include conductance
effects or not.  Michael promised to research this and provide more
technical details to individual participants.

The example ICM model set presented in Michael's slides is available as a 
separate file on the IBIS web site.  The suggested corrections will be
made in the posted version.

USE OF [RAMP] IN IBIS 4.1
Lynne Green, Cadence Design Systems
Lynne summarized the history of the [Ramp] keyword, by observing its use
and associated assumptions in IBIS 1.0.  While V-t curve support was
added in IBIS 2.1 to more realistically model the non-linear transitions
of buffers, [Ramp] was kept for compatibility.  The data in the keyword
is highly useful for estimating an initial timestep for simulation and
also for estimating crosstalk effects.  Unfortunately, the utility of
[Ramp] is compromised by misuse of the keyword data -- for example,
normalizing the data to "1 ns" dt instead of collecting correct dV
and dt data for the buffer into the appropriate load.  At present,
data for single-ended buffers can be collected with almost any
resistive load similar to that expected under normal conditions.
For differential buffers, the single-ended termination voltage
assumptions break down, though comments can help to eliminate some
confusion.  BIRD75 extensions threaten to cause more issues, as the
flexibility of AMS or Berkeley SPICE designs under IBIS 4.1 make a
single recommendation for collecting [Ramp] data impossible to create
- -- how should one create [Ramp] data for a programmable slew rate buffer?
Currently, BIRD85 has been proposed to make [Ramp] a requirement for
[External Model] data, so that the utility of [Ramp] for timestep and
crosstalk estimation is preserved.  The language of BIRD85 clarifies
exactly what the [Ramp] data means and how it should be generated. 

Michael Mirmak pointed out the risks in "overloading" the [Ramp] 
keyword's meaning, as models today appear which badly misuse the
keyword or ignore the data derivation rules for it.  John Angulo
pointed out that the real intent of the keyword in advanced 
applications is to define a slew time target, which some tools
already explicitly request.  Mike LaBonte raised the issue of
adding termination voltage and resistance information to the
keyword.  Lynne pointed out that, while this would help with some 
differential loading types, this would not preserve the original 
keyword nor would it provide a general solution for future designs. 

DETAILS ON TRUE DIFFERENTIAL BUFFER CHARACTERIZATION REVISITED
Arpad Muranyi, Intel Corp. 
Arpad presented his slides as an extension of previous talks by
himself and Hazem Hegazy on differential modeling at the 2000, 2001, 
and 2002 IBIS Summits.  The updated slides take the 2002 proposed method
of generating differential and common mode curves for an IBIS model
and show how this method actually can be implemented using IBIS 3.2
keywords.  Arpad pointed out that, while his new method satisfactorily
accounts for differential currents and capacitances, the 3.2 series element
keywords necessary to properly describe these effects are not universally
available in IBIS compatible tools today.

The essence of the new I-V model technique is to generate common mode
currents, captured under the standard [Model] keywords and subparameters,
while placing differential mode currents under a series element keyword 
([Series MOSFET], [Series Current], etc. which would "tie together" the two
common mode models.  By creating a surface plot and normalizing the plot so
that diagonal currents are zero, the off-diagonal components can be used for
the differential mode model.  The current along the diagonal becomes the
common mode model data. This can be fairly easily accomplished using Perl
and a SPICE simulation tool, though new Matlab toolboxes may ease the
process.  V-t curves can be generated by canceling the differential currents
with a dependent current source controlled by coefficients resulting from
the earlier I-V sweeps.  

Arpad also showed a differential capacitance meter based upon an AC
(frequency-domain) sweep of the buffer of interest, with appropriate
biasing.  The differential and common mode components of C_comp can be
measured using this method and expressed using [Model] and series element
keywords as with the I-V curves above.  Using a correct C_comp value and
combined [Model] and series element keyword data yields excellent transient
and DC matching between transistor and IBIS models.  The matching is less
accurate when only the buffer's internal load (no external load) is used for
the correlation.  Similarly, mismatched transmission lines show
miscorrelation, though the results for transmission lines with impedances
matched to the buffer data's load resistance showed very good matching.
Data dependencies, seen as rising and falling asymmetries, appeared in the
transistor-level model which IBIS 3.2 cannot match. Many of these issues may
be addressed more completely using an IBIS 4.1 AMS-based model.

Both Arpad and Ed Sayre noted that rising vs. falling asymmetries have been
noted in actual (simulated) designs.  The participants agreed that further
study was needed of Arpad's techniques before meaningful feedback could
be provided.

OTHER DISCUSSIONS AND AD HOC PRESENTATIONS 
The post-presentation discussions focused primarily on IBIS futures,
specifically regarding ICM, S2IBIS3, and technical issues related to
IBIS 4.1. Ed Sayre strongly suggested that an ICM roadmap be prepared, to
include the adoption steps necessary by tool vendors, the support plan of
the Open Forum, and the timeline of these actions plus specification
enhancements.  Arpad added questions regarding the applicability of ICM to
other types of interconnect, specifically on-die: could ICM be used to
describe power and ground networks inside the die as well as on packages?
Ed followed this with questions regarding the use of ICM for power-ground
modeling: are "bedspring" models of power delivery networks the only option
under ICM, or are plane models also possible?  Michael Mirmak commented
that, at present, ICM was most suitable for packages and PCB-related
interconnects, while the multi-lingual extensions of IBIS 4.1 were intended
to assist modeling of on-die interconnects.  

Michael provided a brief sketch of ICM's potential direction:
- - provide frequency-dependent RLGC support
- - clarify interfacing to IBIS models
- - clarify the relationship between ICM and IBIS 4.1 multi-lingual extensions
- - (potentially) enable ICM as a "fourth extension" in a post-4.1 version
  of IBIS

Bob Ross commented that the use of ICM as an IBIS extension was complicated
by ICM's existence as an independent specification.  As with VHDL-AMS and
Verilog-AMS, any connection between ICM and IBIS cannot be easily "built-in"
to the ICM specification.

Ed Sayre suggested that a detailed ICM roadmap could be prepared as follows:
- - provide regular status reports
- - gather consensus from major stakeholders on ICM's direction
- - use DesignCon as a forum for presenting the plans
- - reintroduce ICM to the modeling community, who may be desensitized to
  discussions due to the long delay in finalizing the specification

If needed, major connector and cable manufacturers can be involved, perhaps
even to supply funds if further development expenses are foreseen.

Ed also raised the earlier issue of S2IBIS3 financial support.  He noted
that, while Java certainly was platform-independent, were there other
options which may be more easily adopted?  Also, as this is a freely
distributed "product," was the Open Forum involved in raising money for
it, as it is being developed for non-commercial purposes?  Both Bob Ross and
Michael Mirmak commented that, as with earlier discussion of open source
distribution of the IBIS parser, the Open Forum must refrain from offering
"products" which may create additional competitive pressure for its members.
In such a situation, no incentive remains for IBIS to retain and grow its
membership, if no benefit and calculable loss results to companies who
joined.  For the foreseeable future, S2IBIS3 will be supported indirectly by
the Open Forum, through research and technical feedback, but will not be
offered or controlled directly by the Open Forum.

Regarding [Ramp], John Angulo summarized his BIRD85 work, and concluded that
while needed, the approach used for [external Model] may turn out to be
"flaky" and too dependent on author interpretation.  Already, [Ramp] data
for differential models is "fudged" to comply with the IBIS single-ended
derivation requirements. Arpad concurred, asking whether it was desirable to
add a "dual-use" keyword to the IBIS 4.1 specification.  Further discussion
of this issue will take place at upcoming Open Forum meetings.

Finally, in discussing upcoming events, Bob Ross noted that the European
IBIS Summit is currently scheduled to take place at DATE 2004 on
February 20 in Paris.  

CONCLUDING ITEMS
Michael Mirmak again thanked the presenters and NESA sponsors for their
help and support in making the Summit a success.  After reminding the 
participants regarding the next Open Forum teleconference, Michael closed
the IBIS Summit Meeting.

NEXT MEETING:
The next Open Forum teleconference has been scheduled for November 14
from 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM US Pacific Standard Time.  Votes regarding the 
approval of BIRD83, BIRD84 and BIRD85 are scheduled.

============================================================================
                               NOTES

IBIS CHAIR: Michael Mirmak (916) 356-4261, Fax: (916) 377-1046
            [email-masked]
            Senior Analog Engineer, Intel Corporation
            M/S FM6-45
            1900 Prairie City Rd.
            Folsom, CA  95630

VICE CHAIR: Lynne Green (425) 788-0412, Fax: (425) 451-1871
            [email-masked]
            Senior Modeling Engineer, Cadence Design Systems
            320 120th Ave NE, Suite B-103, Bellevue, WA 98005-3016

SECRETARY:  Randy Wolff (208) 363-1764, Fax: (208) 368-3475
            [email-masked]
            Simulation Engineer, Micron Technology, Inc.
            8000 S. Federal Way
            Mail Stop: 1-711
            Boise, ID 83707-0006
        
LIBRARIAN:  Roy Leventhal (847) 590-9398
            [email-masked]
            Consultant, Leventhal Design and Communications
            1924 North Burke Drive
            Arlington Heights, Illinois 60004

WEBMASTER:  Syed Huq (408) 525-3399, Fax: (408) 526-5504
            [email-masked]
            Manager, Hardware Engineering, Cisco Systems
            170 West Tasman Drive
            San Jose, CA 95134-1706

POSTMASTER: John Angulo (425) 497-5077, Fax: (425) 881-1008
            [email-masked]
            Development Engineer, Mentor Graphics
            14715 N.E. 95th Street, Suite 200
            Redmond, WA 98052

This meeting was conducted in accordance with the EIA Legal Guides and EIA 
Manual of Organization and Procedure.

The following e-mail addresses are used:

  [email-masked]
      In the body, for the IBIS Open Forum Reflector:
      subscribe ibis <your e-mail address>

      In the body, for the IBIS Users' Group Reflector:
      subscribe ibis-users <your e-mail address>

      Help and other commands:
      help

  [email-masked]
      To join, change, or drop from either the IBIS Open Forum Reflector
      ([email-masked]), the IBIS Users' Group Reflector ([email-masked])
      or both.  State your request.

  [email-masked]
      To obtain general information about IBIS, to ask specific questions
      for individual response, and to inquire about joining the EIA-IBIS
      Open Forum as a full Member.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the general IBIS Open Forum Reflector.  This
      is used mostly for IBIS Standardization business and future IBIS
      technical enhancements.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To send a message to the IBIS Users' Group Reflector.  This is
      used mostly for IBIS clarification, current modeling issues, and
      general user concerns.  Job posting information is not permitted.

  [email-masked]
      To report ibischk2/3 parser bugs.  The Bug Report Form Resides on
      eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/ibischk/bugform.txt along with reported
      bugs.

      To report s2ibis, s2ibis2 and s2iplt bugs, use the Bug Report Forms
      which reside under eda.org in /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis/bugs2i.txt,
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2ibis2/bugs2i2.txt, and
      /pub/ibis/bugs/s2iplt/bugsplt.txt respectively.

Information on IBIS technical contents, IBIS participants, and actual IBIS 
models are available on the IBIS Home page found by selecting the Electronic 
Information Group under:

  http://www.eigroup.org/ibis/ibis.htm

Check the pub/ibis/directory.html file on eda.org for more information on
previous discussions and results.

Other brands and names are the property of their respective owners.
|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 16:20:07 -0600
From: [email-masked]
Subject: [IBIS-Users] Does a clock driver IBIS model need to incorporate steady state s witching effects?

I have received some feedback recently that you would need
a clock driver IBIS model to take into account the effects of
steady state switching at some frequency.  The feedback states
that if you used the same silicon I/O cell for psuedo-random, or
less frequent switching, then the IBIS model would need to be
different to get the most accurate effect.

Does anyone have any insight that could be helpful in explaining
why this might be the case?  

James R. Jones
Enterprise Engineering Signal Integrity Team
Dell Inc.
(512) 725-1809

|------------------------------------------------------------------
|For help or to subscribe/unsubscribe, email [email-masked]
|with just the appropriate command message(s) in the body:
|
|  help
|  subscribe   ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  subscribe   ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis       <optional e-mail address, if different>
|  unsubscribe ibis-users <optional e-mail address, if different>
|
|or email a written request to [email-masked].
|
|IBIS reflector archives exist under:
|
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/users_archive/  Recent
|  http://www.eda.org/pub/ibis/email/          E-mail since 1993

------------------------------

End of ibis-users V1 #32
************************