SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, November 26, 2007 Time: 09:00am-11:00am PST Toll Free Dial In Number: (888)635-9997 International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: (763)315-6815 PARTICIPANT CODE: 53904 21210102020213131010001020211 Day 62951760639510406295588439514 11111000000000000000001111000 Month 11000998877665544433212200998 00000000000000000000000000000 Year 77777777777777777777776666666 aaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa---aaaaa Matt Maidment - Intel aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel aaa-a-a--aaaa-aaa-aaaaaa-aaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design ---a-a----aaa--a-aaaaaaaaaaa- Surrendra Dudani - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aa-aaaaaaaaaa-a-a-aaaaa-a-aaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence a-aaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa Karen Pieper - Synopsys a-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaaaaaaa-aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaa-a-aaaaaa-aa-a--aaaaa Stu Sutherland - Sutherland HDL aaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa--------- Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics a-aaaaaaa--aaaaaa-aa-a-aaaaa- Don Mills - LCDM Engineering aaaa-aaa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa-aaaa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer -------a-aaa----------------- Will Cummings - Synplicity aaaaaaaaa-------------------- Tom Alsop - Intel -aaa----------------aa---aa-a Doug Warmke - Mentor Graphics -----a----------------------- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys aaaaa------------------------ Mike Burns - Freescale Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Reviewed. + Review Minutes of Previous Meetings http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_07_11_12.txt Cliff moves to accept. Heath seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Shalom (did not have time to review them) Motion passes. + Extension of Dec 15 deadline Shalom requests that the Dec 15 deadline be extended to Monday Dec 17 Cliff seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. AI: All follow-up with DRs. Shalom moves to extending Nov 26 to Dec 3 and extend the Dec 10th meeting to Dec 17th (Dec 17 meeting conditional on 1800 approval). Cliff seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Issues 1345 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1345) Consensus: will not forbid side-effects, just state side-effects can produce undefined results. For matching items, the statement associated with the first true item must be evaluated. Shalom will work on this proposal. 329 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=329) Consensus: import statements will get their own position in the declaration, prior to parameters and ports. Must have parameter or port list if import statements used in declaration. 997 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=997) Concern about unintended consequences about adding short-circuiting (synthesis, code coverage). Acknowledged that it is useful for testbenches. For: Mike, Tom, Heath Opposed: Stu (1. tools need flexibility to optimize as best fits; 2. backward compatibility) Gord (now based on information at hand) Mark (with more investigation may change to for) Karen (could change mind with more info) Dave (too late to add at this time; in favor to add at a later date) Abstain: Steven (just needs more info to support for vote) Alex (need more information) Cliff (would like to see more examples of mismatching code) Francoise (Need more info, would like to see it later) Don (need more info) AI: Mike find examples of code that misbehaves due to short-circuiting ambiguity Will be up for vote on the tenth. 2217 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2217) 1338 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1338) 1339 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1339) *1548 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1548) - not on list/feedback 1571 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1571) 1619 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1619) *1957 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1957) - not on list/feedback 2102 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2102) 2106 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2106) - not on list/name resolution *2152 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2152) 2163 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2163) *2169 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2169) 2170 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2170) *2178 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2178) *2184 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2184) AI: Stu to update proposal for 329 to follow meeting. 11/26 11:00am PST - Cliff moves to suspend meeting and continue Dec 3. 12/03 09:00am PST - Meeting resumed. E-mail Vote Results: Pass: 1548, 2152, 2163, 2170, 2178 329 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=329) Shalom moves to accept proposal. Tom seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. 1338 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1338) Shalom moves to accept proposal. Tom seconds. No Opposed. No Abstain. Motion passes. 1339 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1339) AI: Tom to update 1339 for next vote. 1571 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1571) Issues raised by Gord, Doug & Stu have been addressed. AI: Shalom to update issue per feedback. 1619 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1619) AI: Tom to update per feedback from Shalom, Steven, Brad 1957 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1957) Gord moves to accept proposal. Steven seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. 2102 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2102) Steven updated example to address Brad Steven moves to accept updated proposal. Brad seconds. For: Francoise, Gord, Mike, Dave, Steven, Tom, Mark, Alex, Stu, Brad, Karen, Don Opposed: Shalom (would like time to address issues he raised) Cliff (weak - wants to give Shalom time to address his concerns) No Abstain. Motion passes. 2106 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2106) Dave updated proposal for 2106 to address most of Shalom's feedback. Dave moves to accept updated proposal. Brad seconds. Opposed: Shalom (wording unclear. Text is not ordered well). Abstain: Cliff would like to review Shalom's objections. Motion passes. 2169 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2169) Change fixed part-select to non-indexed part-select Shalom moves with amendment Brad seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. AI: Shalom to update proposal for 2169 2184 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2184) AI: Mark to reword proposal per Steven's feedback. 2217 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2217) member select construct - member select make this 22.7, move 22.7 to 22.8, etc. Gord moves to accept with friendly amendments Brad seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Shalom (not completely satisfied with placement nor term "directly visible") Motion passes. Email Vote for next week: 1339 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1339) 1345 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1345) 1583 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1583) 1809 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1809) 2222 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2222) 2225 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2225) 11:00am - Cliff moves to adjourn. Action Items Completed 11/12/2007 Tom update proposal for SVDB 1619 based on feedback. 03/19/2007 Cliff send e-mail to Karen regarding SVDB account 10/29/2007 Steven to reword SVDB 2102 based on feedback 11/26/2007 Mike find examples of code that misbehaves due to short-circuiting ambiguity Pending 01/09/2006 Shalom file new issure related to SVDB 1254 and include example 03/27/2006 Cliff post examples demonstrating the need for 0-1 wildcard to justify further action on SVDB 99 Other ideas: elsex, defaultx, ifx, alwaysx, initialx, Question: what about X expression in index of Vector or array expressions (a[i] where i === 'X). Cliff to pursue further action. 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1386 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1078 06/19/2006 Francoise check with SV-CC regariding suitability of data read API to address debugging of "dynamic data" in lieu of vcd extensions. 07/10/2006 Steve add bugnote to 1043 about specifics for resolution 07/31/2006 Steve add bug note to 1481 with details for a clearer proposal 09/25/2006 Matt add SVDB entry to request capability to packages: import/export & non-exported (local) package declarations. 10/23/2006 Matt send example of use of forward typedef. 12/04/2006 Shalom present compelling example of `begin_define -- `end_define 12/18/2006 Cliff open Mantis item about 'predefault' with compelling examples 01/08/2007 Vendors to describe interpretation of a path when there are multiple drivers involved and share test cases on reflector. 03/05/2007 ALL look at SV-AC items and send Matt a note if you require more information to address them. Matt will work with SV-AC to get additional information. 04/26/2007 All: Revisit concept of memory in Draft 3 Affects PLI backward compatibility and readmem system tasks. After some discussion, ambivalence gave way to agreement that arrays and memories as covered in 7.4 need to be revisited for clarification. SVDB 1362 covers this issue. Dave will start working on it. 06/11/2007 Stu reword proposal for SVDB 1111 06/11/2007 Matt notify SV-AC to update 1641 to system task/function section 06/11/2007 Mark attempt to define 'variation' in context of resolving SVDB 1850 06/25/2007 Gord add new SVDB entry and proposal to address expression sizing issues for literals of unspecified widths. 06/25/2007 Steve look into ability to use 1800 types with old-style port decls 08/06/2007 Steven to record concerns about issues related to issue 1935. 09/06/2007 Stu to write proposal for SVDB 1826 09/17/2007 Shalom to update proposal for SVDB 1863 10/01/2007 Shalom to update SVDB 1747 based on feedback. 10/29/2007 Steven to work on new proposal for SVDB 1750 10/29/2007 Shalom to update SVDB 2097 per feedback. 11/12/2007 Matt add SVDB 1340 to agenda after December 15 deadline. 12/03/2007 Review editorial issues submitted by Shalom 12/03/2007 Tom to update 1339 for next vote. 12/03/2007 Shalom to update proposal for 2169 Schedule Reminder 11/12/07 Committees must open active Mantis items that they are going to complete for this release. They may not work on any item not on in this list. 12/15/07 SV-BC and SV-EC must complete all items from their Mantis list. Past this date they are only authorized to work on merge, editing and champions issues. 02/15/08 SV-CC must complete all items from its Mantis list. Past this date they are only authorized to work on merge, editing and champions issues. 02/28/08 SV-AC freezes. It does not get leeway for merge, editing and champions issues.