SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, January 21, 2008 Time: 09:00am-11:00am PST Toll Free Dial In Number: 1-866-675-1568 International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-281-540-4972 PARTICIPANT CODE: 2125837662 20121210102020213131010001020211 Day 17002951760639510406295588439514 00111111000000000000000001111000 Month 11211000998877665544433212200998 00000000000000000000000000000000 Year 88777777777777777777777776666666 aaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa---aaaaa Matt Maidment - Intel aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel aaaaaa-a-a--aaaa-aaa-aaaaaa-aaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design ------a-a----aaa--a-aaaaaaaaaaa- Surrendra Dudani - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys a-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a-a-aaaaa-a-aaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence -aaa-aaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa Karen Pieper - Synopsys -aaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaaa-aa-a--aaaaa Stu Sutherland - Sutherland HDL aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa--------- Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics aaaa-aaaaaaa--aaaaaa-aa-a-aaaaa- Don Mills - LCDM Engineering a-aaaaa-aaa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa-aaaa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer -aaaaaaaaaaa-------------------- Tom Alsop - Intel -aaaaaaa------------------------ Mike Burns - Freescale aaa-aaa----------------aa---aa-a Doug Warmke - Mentor Graphics ----------a-aaa----------------- Will Cummings - Synplicity --------a----------------------- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Reviewed. + Review Minutes of Previous Meetings http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_08_01_07.txt Cliff moves to accept minutes. Shalom seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Heath (did not attend Jan 7 meeting) Motion passes. + Direction from 1800 WG Neil posted feedback from the 1800 WG to the reflector: http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-bc/hm/7839.html - LRM merge issues - Editing issues - Champions feedback - 2005 ballot issues - Jeita issues - Mantis 2008 - svbc (related to svac 2005) - Mantis 1982 - svbc to review this svac mantis item - Mantis 966 - svbc to review this svac mantis item Please review and raise any questions or concerns. + Issues 2008 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2008) AI: Doug will work with Tom. Need to repeat the mechanism used by deferred assertions or make reference to deferred assertions directly. AI: Tom field Shalom's question: Is this an assertion or not. If so, explain how it is like other assertions and and not like other assertions. Gord: If these are assertions what is interaction with $asserton/$assertoff Stu: Would like a specialized control for unique/priority What are the semantics for labeling unique/priority checks? 1758 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1758) Missed updating this in 11.3.2: All operators shall associate left to right with the exception of the conditional operator, which shall associate right to left. Associativity refers to the order in which the operators having the same precedence are evaluated. Thus, in the following example, B is added to A, and then C is subtracted from the result of A+B. table 11-23: needs to be updated (add to the section with && and ||) Instead of stating that they are short-hand for, say they are logically equivalent to (General Note: Steven has posted some operator clarifications as note to 1805) AI: Matt add bug note to 1758, correspond with Neil on how to address. 1651 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1651) Are the champions asking for $psprintf? AI: Matt move to open status. If needed urgently, need someone to make a proposal. 675 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=675) Can this be resolved as addressed by tagged unions? Stu moves to resolve this 1) it can be done with tagged unions 2) if implemented with packed unions can permit design error due to inadvertent field size discrepancies Heath seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. 677 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=677) What about during initialization? Is it possible that there could be a misfiring even with modifications of SVDB 2008? If 'error' is defined as print a message and continue simulation, then it would be ok. If 'error' means fatal and halts further processing, then this is too strong. Making it a non-fatal error may cause users to start ignoring errors. May be helped if tied in with assertions and gain ability to control these aspects. Resolve 698 and/or 2008 (and even promoting unique/priority to an assertion) before taking action here. 698 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=698) For simulation, what constitues a non-fatal error? Mandating that a vendor be able to recover from non-fatal errors seems inappropriate. Mandating that a vendor not recover from an error seems inappropriate. Gord prefers errors and warnings, only. Let implementations determine if fatal. Motion to resolve with no action is most practical. Ran out of time to proceed. 11:06am: Cliff moves to adjourn 1827 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1827) Seems simple enough. Can we review and find owner to write a proposal? 1828 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1828) Does the SV-BC agree? 1829 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1829) Minor issue to discuss. JEITA 1826 - Annex B Add keyword list by LRM version - Resolved as of Jan 7, 2008 Meeting 1827 - 20.3.1 Update the OS Reference - new 1828 - 9.2.2.3, 9.2.2.4 should/can and mandatory statements- new 1829 - 6.8 usually logic [31:0] would be little endian. - new 1832 - path rule/scope rule is not clearly described here. - Assigned to Gord Ballot Issues 675 - Packed union shall not be restricted to equal length- feedback Apr 15, 2005 - closed with resolution of "no change required". Reopened for 2008 and now in the feedback state. 676 - Add support of unconstraint arrays - feedback Apr 15, 2005 - closed with resolution of "no change required". Reopened for 2008 and now in the feedback state. 678 - Variables shall be allowed for slicing vectors. - feedback Apr 15, 2005 - closed with resolution of "no change required". Reopened for 2008 and now in the feedback state. 697 - file IO tasks and new SV data types - feedback May 10, 2005 - closed with resolution of "won't fix". Reopened for 2008 and now in the feedback state. 677 - unique/priority violation should be errors - assigned (Karen) Apr 15, 2005 - closed with resolution of "no change required". Reopened for 2008 and now in the assigned state. 698 - No Definition of Error and Warning - assigned (Stu) May 10, 2005 - closed with resolution of "won't fix". Reopened for 2008 and now in the feedback state. Action Items Completed 01/07/2008 Matt change status of SVDB 1846 to closed as duplicate. 01/07/2008 Tom prepare 2008 for vote. Pending 01/09/2006 Shalom file new issure related to SVDB 1254 and include example 03/27/2006 Cliff post examples demonstrating the need for 0-1 wildcard to justify further action on SVDB 99 Other ideas: elsex, defaultx, ifx, alwaysx, initialx, Question: what about X expression in index of Vector or array expressions (a[i] where i === 'X). Cliff to pursue further action. 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1386 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1078 06/19/2006 Francoise check with SV-CC regariding suitability of data read API to address debugging of "dynamic data" in lieu of vcd extensions. 07/10/2006 Steve add bugnote to 1043 about specifics for resolution 07/31/2006 Steve add bug note to 1481 with details for a clearer proposal 09/25/2006 Matt add SVDB entry to request capability to packages: import/export & non-exported (local) package declarations. 10/23/2006 Matt send example of use of forward typedef. 12/04/2006 Shalom present compelling example of `begin_define -- `end_define 12/18/2006 Cliff open Mantis item about 'predefault' with compelling examples 01/08/2007 Vendors to describe interpretation of a path when there are multiple drivers involved and share test cases on reflector. 03/05/2007 ALL look at SV-AC items and send Matt a note if you require more information to address them. Matt will work with SV-AC to get additional information. 04/26/2007 All: Revisit concept of memory in Draft 3 Affects PLI backward compatibility and readmem system tasks. After some discussion, ambivalence gave way to agreement that arrays and memories as covered in 7.4 need to be revisited for clarification. SVDB 1362 covers this issue. Dave will start working on it. 06/11/2007 Stu reword proposal for SVDB 1111 06/11/2007 Mark attempt to define 'variation' in context of resolving SVDB 1850 06/25/2007 Gord add new SVDB entry and proposal to address expression sizing issues for literals of unspecified widths. 06/25/2007 Steve look into ability to use 1800 types with old-style port decls 08/06/2007 Steven to record concerns about issues related to issue 1935. 09/06/2007 Stu to write proposal for SVDB 1826 09/17/2007 Shalom to update proposal for SVDB 1863 10/01/2007 Shalom to update SVDB 1747 based on feedback. 10/29/2007 Steven to work on new proposal for SVDB 1750 10/29/2007 Shalom to update SVDB 2097 per feedback. 12/03/2007 Review editorial issues submitted by Shalom 01/21/2008 Doug work with Tom. Need to repeat the mechanism used by deferred assertions or make reference to deferred assertions directly. 01/21/2008 Tom field Shalom's question: Is this an assertion or not. If so, explain how it is like other assertions and and not like other assertions. 01/21/2008 Matt add bug note to 1758, correspond with Neil on how to address. Schedule Reminder 11/12/07 Committees must open active Mantis items that they are going to complete for this release. They may not work on any item not on in this list. 12/15/07 SV-BC and SV-EC must complete all items from their Mantis list. Past this date they are only authorized to work on merge, editing and champions issues. 02/15/08 SV-CC must complete all items from its Mantis list. Past this date they are only authorized to work on merge, editing and champions issues. 02/28/08 SV-AC freezes. It does not get leeway for merge, editing and champions issues.