SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, April 14, 2008 Time: 09:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number: 1-866-675-1568 International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-281-540-4972 PARTICIPANT CODE: 2125837662 12101020121210102020213131010001020211 Day 45738417002951760639510406295588439514 00000000111111000000000000000001111000 Month 43332211211000998877665544433212200998 00000000000000000000000000000000000000 Year 88888888777777777777777777777776666666 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa---aaaaa Matt Maidment - Intel aaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel aaaaaaaaaaaa-a-a--aaaa-aaa-aaaaaa-aaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys -aaa-aa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a-a-aaaaa-a-aaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence -aaaaa-aaa-aaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa Karen Pieper - Tabula aaaa-a-aaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics a-aaa-aaaaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaaa-aa-a--aaaaa Stu Sutherland - Sutherland HDL a-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa--------- Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa--aaaaaa-aa-a-aaaaa- Don Mills - LCDM Engineering aaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa-aaaa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer aaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa-------------------- Tom Alsop - Intel -------aaaaaaa------------------------ Mike Burns - Freescale -a-aa-aaa-aaa----------------aa---aa-a Doug Warmke - Mentor Graphics ----------------a-aaa----------------- Will Cummings - Synplicity ------------a-a----aaa--a-aaaaaaaaaaa- Surrendra Dudani - Synopsys --------------a----------------------- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys -----a-------------------------------- Sachi Bhat - Synopsys Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Reviewed. + Review Minutes of Previous Meetings http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_08_03_25.txt Cliff moves to accept the minutes. Shalom seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Alex (not present at March 25 meeting) Motion passes. + Issues 2235 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2235) Champions sending back to committee. Feedback is that wording is unclear. Gord responded that there is currnetly no terminology to fully describe this scenario. To be more clear, the proposal will need to be significanly expanded to precisely capture it. Only implementation divergence could result from addressing slices. Proposed text forbids support for slices and any support for slices by vendors can be formally identified as non-standard. Terminology in question: member of an unpacked structure, element of an unpacked array. Gord returned with proposal near meeting's end. AI: Matt to add 2235 to e-mail ballot. 2099 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2099) 3-1. 3.10.1: These (22.7, 22.6) are the cross-references that were in 1800-2005. Are they correct? This is resolved by SVDB 1212. 3-2. 3.12, Table 3-1: Should "step" be added to this table? (per A.8.4) Cannot set the timescale to a step. Answer is "No." SVDB 1473 further supports this decision. 3-3. 3.12.1: The term "time scaling" is not defined in 1364-2005 or 1800-2005. Does it need to be? Replacement option: Simulation time units 6-1. 6.6, Syntax 6-1: are more productions needed? (e.g. to show packed and unpacked dimensions) No action required. 6-2. 6.7, Syntax 6-2: Are all these productions needed here? enum_base_type enum_name_decl class_scope class_type footnote 22 data_declaration production should be there. Leave the rest to the editor. 6-3. 6.20.1: Does this rule only apply to parameter port lists? No. 22.9.3 covers other parameter definitions. Remove: "In a list of parameter constants," from 6.20.1 6-4: 6.24.3: The description of this example would make more sense if the definition of source_t and dest_t were added. Agreed that it might be easier, but it is meant to be general. No change needed. 6-5. 6.24.3: Is "xor()" a keyword in this context (should it be bold)? (also see 7.13.3) No change required. 7-1. 7.4.3: Are these rules really for "all arrays", including dynamic, associative and string? AI: Tom create a new Mantis item for this to clarify exactly which array types are covered by these capabilities. Strings are not included. SVDB 1447 touches on this. 7-2. 7.13.3: Are "and()" "or()" and "xor()" keywords in this context (should they be bold)? Yes. 8-1. 8.2: "A common convention is to capitalize the first letter of the class name so that it is easy to recognize class declarations." Should this LRM follow this convention? Delete: A common convention is to capitalize the first letter of the class name so that it is easy to recognize classs declarations. No, LRM need not follow this convention. 9-1. 9.6.2, Example 3: Is a new example needed? I added indentation for clarity, but: 1) The second "always" has no context. 2) The task disable does not show the "terminate execution of a named block" in the description. Editor already cleaned up example in Draft 5. 10-1. 10.6.1: Does the result of a cont. assign to a variable update immediately when the variable is released? Topic partially addressed in Mantis 2097. Change: Releasing a variable that is driven by a continuous assignment or currently has an active assign procedural continuous assignment shall cause a reevaluation and reestablish that assignment. To: Releasing a variable that is driven by a continuous assignment or currently has an active assign procedural continuous assignment shall reestablish that assignment and schedule a reevaluation in the continuous assignment's scheduling region. AI: Matt create Mantis item for change to 10.6.1. AI: Matt send e-mail to close on the above items. Stop here. Next meeting April 28. Draft 5 should be available. 11:59am: Cliff moves to adjourn Did not have time for: 2072 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2072) Merge Issue 2294 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2294) Clarification required + Follow-up to assignment pattern thread Discussion of default: and type: assignment patterns starts here: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/8538.html Review Greg's interpretation: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/8541.html Action Items Completed 03/25/2008 Francoise to update proposal for 1809 with friendly amendments. 03/25/2008 Matt update proposal for 2251 with friendly amendment. 03/25/2008 Matt open new Mantis item to capture need for defining more precisely what is searched and when it is searched for `include. Resolution of this new issue should align these mechanisms with similar features in "C". Notify Doug know when issue submitted so Doug can upload an e-mail on the topic. Pending 01/09/2006 Shalom file new issure related to SVDB 1254 and include example 03/27/2006 Cliff post examples demonstrating the need for 0-1 wildcard to justify further action on SVDB 99 Other ideas: elsex, defaultx, ifx, alwaysx, initialx, Question: what about X expression in index of Vector or array expressions (a[i] where i === 'X). Cliff to pursue further action. 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1386 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1078 06/19/2006 Francoise check with SV-CC regariding suitability of data read API to address debugging of "dynamic data" in lieu of vcd extensions. 07/10/2006 Steve add bugnote to 1043 about specifics for resolution 07/31/2006 Steve add bug note to 1481 with details for a clearer proposal 09/25/2006 Matt add SVDB entry to request capability to packages: import/export & non-exported (local) package declarations. 10/23/2006 Matt send example of use of forward typedef. 12/04/2006 Shalom present compelling example of `begin_define -- `end_define 12/18/2006 Cliff open Mantis item about 'predefault' with compelling examples 01/08/2007 Vendors to describe interpretation of a path when there are multiple drivers involved and share test cases on reflector. 03/05/2007 ALL look at SV-AC items and send Matt a note if you require more information to address them. Matt will work with SV-AC to get additional information. 04/26/2007 All: Revisit concept of memory in Draft 3 Affects PLI backward compatibility and readmem system tasks. After some discussion, ambivalence gave way to agreement that arrays and memories as covered in 7.4 need to be revisited for clarification. SVDB 1362 covers this issue. Dave will start working on it. 06/11/2007 Mark attempt to define 'variation' to aid resolution of SVDB 1850 06/25/2007 Gord add new SVDB entry and proposal to address expression sizing issues for literals of unspecified widths. 06/25/2007 Steve look into ability to use 1800 types with old-style port decls 08/06/2007 Steven to record concerns about issues related to issue 1935. 10/01/2007 Shalom to update SVDB 1747 based on feedback. 12/03/2007 Review editorial issues submitted by Shalom 03/03/2008 SV-BC review Draft 5 to ensure SVDB 2008's "violation report" added correctly 03/03/2008 Matt send mail on outcome of vote on SVDB 2089 03/17/2008 Steven open a new mantis item to request specification of what happens to queued violation reports when process is disabled 04/14/2008 Matt to add 2235 to e-mail ballot. 04/14/2008 Matt create Mantis item for change to 10.6.1. 04/14/2008 Tom create a new Mantis item regarindg 7.4.3, to clarify exactly which array types are covered by these capabilities. Strings are not included. SVDB 1447 touches on this. 04/14/2008 Matt send e-mail to close on the items in 2099 Schedule Reminder 05/29/08 Draft 5 of LRM available