SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, June 2, 2008 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number: 1-866-675-1568 International Access/Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-281-540-4972 PARTICIPANT CODE: 2125837662 01212101020121210102020213131010001020211 Day 22845738417002951760639510406295588439514 00000000000111111000000000000000001111000 Month 65443332211211000998877665544433212200998 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Year 88888888888777777777777777777777776666666 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaa---aaaaa Matt Maidment - Intel aaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel --aaaaaaaaaaaaa-a-a--aaaa-aaa-aaaaaa-aaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aa--aaa-aa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a-a-aaaaa-a-aaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence aa--aaaaa-aaa-aaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa Karen Pieper - Tabula aaaaaaa-a-aaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaa-aa-a-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aaaa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaaa-a-aaaaaa-aa-a--aaaaa Stu Sutherland - Sutherland HDL aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa--------- Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa--aaaaaa-aa-a-aaaaa- Don Mills - LCDM Engineering aaaaaaaaaa-aaaaa-aaa-aaaaa-aaaaaaaaa-aaaa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa-------------------- Tom Alsop - Intel ----------aaaaaaa------------------------ Mike Burns - Freescale ----a-aa-aaa-aaa----------------aa---aa-a Doug Warmke - Mentor Graphics -------------------a-aaa----------------- Will Cummings - Synplicity ---------------a-a----aaa--a-aaaaaaaaaaa- Surrendra Dudani - Synopsys -----------------a----------------------- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys --------a-------------------------------- Sachi Bhat - Synopsys Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Reviewed. + Review Minutes of Previous Meetings http://www.eda-stds.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_08_05_12.txt Heath moves to accept the minutes as posted. Tom seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Issues 2399 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2399) Tom moves to accept proposal. Shalom seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. 1000 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1000) By request of SV-CC: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/8707.html Reviewed and found numerous issues: In Draft5 of 1800-2009, this is section 20.7.4.3.2. If multiple input and output drivers are active how to resolve if one of them dominates. Please ensure consistency with 20.7.4.3.1 (current text in LRM does not seem to be consistent). Will this change impact acceptance tests from customers? Very sensitive area. Needs feedback from key customers-- requires time. Some initial indicator by next meeting. AR Gord to get feedback from others. AI: Matt add Mantis 1000 to June 23, 2008 agenda 2374 Steven moves to accept original proposal. Brad seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Don (was not around for discussion) Motion passes. AI: Matt upload original proposal for 2374 as v3. 2099 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2099) Continue to review. Next Questions: 22-2. 22.3.3.3: Is 'z correct for all net type (e.g. tri1)? This is likely an over-generalization. It should likely be dependent upon the net type. This text has been around a long time and changing it could break compatibility. The last paragraph of 6.7 is equally inaccurrate. AI: File Mantis item for question 22-2 of Mantis 2099 and include last paragraph of 6.7. Language in 22.3.3.3 was introduced in 1800 and is a merge issue. Language in 6.7 came from 4.2.1 of 1364-2005. 24-1. 24.9: Shouldn't this new example have an intro paragraph and explanation? (Update for Draft 4: This question is filed as 0001742, but is not resolved) Already answered by SV-EC. 26-1. 26.3, Syntax 26-1: The 1364-2005 BNF was organized differently than 1800's. The BC committee needs to verify that I copied the right productions. Shalom reviewed, recommended some changes. Stu implemented and feels this is now resolved. 28-1. 28.3.2: Can "logic" also be used? Gord: Yes it should be allowed. reg is old terminology and unnecessary restriction. This is a merge issue. It is captured in Mantis: http://www.eda-stds.org/svdb/view.php?id=1368 30-1. 30.6: Can the notifier be any variable type (per the BNF) or are only 1-bit types allowed? XL only allowed scalar reg for a notifier. For 1800, a notifier should be a scalar, 4-state variable. This is a merge issues. Captured in Mantis: http://www.eda-stds.org/svdb/view.php?id=1117 31-1. 31.9: Is string type legal? Already addressed. 32-1. 32.7: Are there any changes to this subclause to support SV design blocks? There is most certainly work here. Configs (clause 32) is not fully specified in 1800. Scope is beyond this PAR. AI: File a parent Mantis issue for configs or add information regarding this question to another issue. New questions from editor: 1) module does not allow for other places a parameter might be defined. 2) Parameters can now be defined with no default value; What happens with these? AI: Don to file new Mantis item for question 32-1 in Mantis 2099 and bring a proposal to the meeting. 35-1. 35.11: These tables were not updated as part of the merge. Are there additional routines to add? Would a better place for these tables be the beginning of clause 37? SV-CC issue. 40-1. 40.7: Should this subclause be merged into Clause 36? SV-CC issue. 40-2. 40.12: Should this subclause be merged into Clause 37? SV-CC issue. D-1. D.2: does "vector" need to be changed to allow for a single bit of a multidimensional packed array? Gord: yes. Just dropping vector might be sufficient. This is a merge issue. AI: File a mantis item for question D-1 in Mantis 2099. For question regarding "syntax code", recommend using BNF sytle. Steven moves to adjourn at 11:00am. Next meeting June 23rd. Need to meet on the 30th as well and need to discuss type of meeting (continuation or separate meeting). D-2. D.12: does "vector" need to be changed to allow for other SV types? D-3. D.13: can the SV string type also be used? I-1. I.9.1.3: should this be changed to "P1800-2008"? I-2. I.12: Should this deprecated subclause be moved to, or referenced in, Annex C? 2072 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2072) Merge Issue 2294 (http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2294) Clarification required + Follow-up to assignment pattern thread Discussion of default: and type: assignment patterns starts here: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/8538.html Review Greg's interpretation: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/8541.html Action Items Completed 05/12/2008 Matt add 2360 to e-mail vote 05/12/2008 Matt post amended proposal for 2374 05/12/2008 Matt add bug note about issues with 2173 and suggest Yaniv work with someone from the BC on the semantics. 04/28/2008 Matt move Mantis 331 to editor status with note that "file_name" should be filename in italics 04/28/2008 Matt send some arbitrary split of Completed items currently assigned to Shalom Pending 01/09/2006 Shalom file new issure related to SVDB 1254 and include example 03/27/2006 Cliff post examples demonstrating the need for 0-1 wildcard to justify further action on SVDB 99 Other ideas: elsex, defaultx, ifx, alwaysx, initialx, Question: what about X expression in index of Vector or array expressions (a[i] where i === 'X). Cliff to pursue further action. 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1386 04/10/2006 Steven to create proposal for SVDB 1078 06/19/2006 Francoise check with SV-CC regariding suitability of data read API to address debugging of "dynamic data" in lieu of vcd extensions. 07/10/2006 Steve add bugnote to 1043 about specifics for resolution 07/31/2006 Steve add bug note to 1481 with details for a clearer proposal 09/25/2006 Matt add SVDB entry to request capability to packages: import/export & non-exported (local) package declarations. 10/23/2006 Matt send example of use of forward typedef. 12/04/2006 Shalom present compelling example of `begin_define -- `end_define 12/18/2006 Cliff open Mantis item about 'predefault' with compelling examples 01/08/2007 Vendors to describe interpretation of a path when there are multiple drivers involved and share test cases on reflector. 03/05/2007 ALL look at SV-AC items and send Matt a note if you require more information to address them. Matt will work with SV-AC to get additional information. 04/26/2007 All: Revisit concept of memory in Draft 3 Affects PLI backward compatibility and readmem system tasks. After some discussion, ambivalence gave way to agreement that arrays and memories as covered in 7.4 need to be revisited for clarification. SVDB 1362 covers this issue. Dave will start working on it. 06/11/2007 Mark attempt to define 'variation' to aid resolution of SVDB 1850 06/25/2007 Gord add new SVDB entry and proposal to address expression sizing issues for literals of unspecified widths. 06/25/2007 Steve look into ability to use 1800 types with old-style port decls 08/06/2007 Steven to record concerns about issues related to issue 1935. 10/01/2007 Shalom to update SVDB 1747 based on feedback. 12/03/2007 Review editorial issues submitted by Shalom 03/03/2008 SV-BC review Draft 5 to ensure SVDB 2008's "violation report" added correctly 03/03/2008 Matt send mail on outcome of vote on SVDB 2089 03/17/2008 Steven open a new mantis item to request specification of what happens to queued violation reports when process is disabled 04/14/2008 Tom create a new Mantis item regarindg 7.4.3, to clarify exactly which array types are covered by these capabilities. Strings are not included. SVDB 1447 touches on this. 04/14/2008 Matt send e-mail to close on the items in 2099 04/28/2008 Matt create Mantis item suggesting text identified in question 11-2 be deleted or integrated elsewhere. 04/28/2008 Matt file Mantis to add cross-reference to 6.21 to 10.6.1 04/28/2008 Matt 10.6.1 should be extended to include member selects per question Mantis 2099, 10-2. File Mantis. 04/28/2008 Matt file Mantis to add cross-reference to 6.21 to 10.6.2 04/28/2008 Matt 10.6.2 should be extended per question 10-3. File Mantis. 04/28/2008 Matt file Mantis item for dist operator to be included in 11.4 and notify EC 04/28/2008 Matt create Mantis item suggesting text identified in question 11-2 of Mantis 2099 be deleted or integrated elsewhere. 04/28/2008 Matt add reference to 2099 and bug note regarding table 11-23/ editor's note and table 11-1 (list of operators) to Mantis 1805. 04/28/2008 Create mantis item to consider other contexts for locality of constant functions, per question 13-1 in Mantis 2099. 04/28/2008 Create Mantis for 2099, 16-1 and assign to AC 05/12/2008 Matt open a new Mantis item to identify what minimally composes a design as stated in 22.3.1. 06/02/2008 Matt add Mantis 1000 to June 23, 2008 agenda 06/02/2008 Matt upload original proposal for 2374 as v3. 06/02/2008 Matt file Mantis item for question 22-2 of Mantis 2099 and include last paragraph of 6.7. 06/02/2008 Don to file new Mantis item for question 32-1 in Mantis 2099 and bring a proposal to the meeting. 06/02/2008 Matt file a mantis item for question D-1 in Mantis 2099.