SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, May 24, 2010 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number in North America: 1-888-813-5316 Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-650-584-6338 Meeting ID: 7839818 2121 Day 4062 0000 Month 5544 1111 Year 0000 aaaa Matt Maidment - Intel -aaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aaaa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aaaa Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics aaaa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer aaaa Tom Alsop - Intel aapp Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design --aa Tracy McDermott - Sunburst Design aaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel -aaa Don Mills - LCDM Engineering aaaa Arnab Saha - Mentor Graphics --aa Peter Flake - Elda Technology aaaa Scott Little - Freescale aa-a Daniel Schostak - ARM -aaa Kaiming Ho - Fraunhofer Institute aaa- Steven Sharp - Cadence a-aa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence aaa- David Gates - AMD a-a- Eric Coffin - Mentor Graphics -a-- John Havlicek - Freescale Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Reviewed. + Previous Meeting Minutes Please review minutes from the past 2 meetings http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_10_05_10.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_10_04_26.txt Shalom moves to accept minutes for the meetings. Alex seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Eric (Absent from May 10 meeting). Motion passes. + Effort Estimates for Top-25 The Top-25 issues were reviewed by the 1800 WG. http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/SV-BC_Scope_for_1800-2012.pdf The next step they requested is a mapping of the Top-25 issues to a schedule. More specifically they asked how many of the Top-25 issues can be completed by October 2011. To respond we need to estimate the effort for each issue and build a credible schedule for addressing as many issues as possible. The 1800 WG would like a response by June 10, 2010. How many meetings between today and October, 2011. Shalom estimates 35 meetings (70 hours). Any known disagreement? Will it be contentious? Would like a champion identified. Here is the list of Top-25 SV-BC issues: 1. 696 Syntax looks reasonable. Rules for dealing with static members. Also impacts disable. Concern over type of expression for data types in declarations. Gord strongly prefers these to be compile-time expression. Mark raised issue about hierarchical references to these. Gord suggest that this is syntatic sugar for call methods from a parameterized class, this seems very tractable. Tom volunteers to champion. Estimate: 3 hours of committee meeting time. 2. 2310 Not including 1697, 1566, 1563, 1208, 1202, 1196, 1084, Issue 14 (1202) may impact all macro issues and solving it may address these other macro issues. Gord opposed to macro enhancements. Would rather see macros enhanced by suggesting an alternative pre-processor (m4, C). Understands argument for native macro language. Burden of legacy may hinder effort to enable new pre-processor. Debate over how much to define. No way to estimate effort to resolve. Likely needs major, off-line work to produce a specification. Suggest asking a few people to collaborate on a specification. Eric and Tom volunteer. Gord interested in investing if others will invest. Stephen needs to discuss with others to determine scope. Mark also needs to investigate scope with others. 16 hours of committe time to resolve 2310, 1084, 1202 assuming committed BC sub-group focused on this topic. 3. 3053 Resolution involves adding restrictions to usage. Contentious issue. Needs a set of focused contributors to drive convergence. 8 hours of committee time assuming committed BC sub-group focused on this topic. This is a resource conflict with 2310 4. 3055 Some overlap with 3053. Likely requires same set of people to resolve. 8 hours of committee time assuming committed BC sub-group focused on this topic. This is a resource conflict with 2310 and 3053. 5. 2991 Gord opposed to anything that requires "whole design analysis". Difficult to analyze much about these enumerate data types if information is not available until the whole design is loaded. Steven discussed that it might be done with restrictions. The types/values of enum literals will become ambiguous. In 'e' enums wind up as a globally resolved set of unique enum values. Needs to start from first principles to decide if/how much of this is reasonable to add. Tom agreed to survey some users and bring back a prioritized list of features. 3 hours of committe time to resolve. If relies of global processing, it likley will be resisted. If it can be done with limits, it may have a chance. May be coupled with aspect-orientation being discussed in SV-EC. 6. 1566 Requires varargs facilities (iterate over arguments, type-check, etc.). May be syntatic sugar for an untyped mailbox approach. Cliff would like to see a few examples of this to determine the merit of this over default values for tasks/functions. Question of effort versus overall usage. Scott agreed to investigate need/impact of 1566 with some of his users. 7. 2114 Cliff estimates 4 hours of committee time and willing to investigate total impact/scope. 8. 210 Can this be limited to ANSI-style port lists? Does this require introducing a scope in a port list? Steven pointed out that Interfaces may also address this. Dave Gates agreed to champion this. Gord suggests that this needs critical vendor review and could hit a conflict with other issues. Cliff suggests 6 hours of committee time. 9. 3056 10. 1084 16 hours of committe time to resolve 2310, 1084, 1202 assuming committed BC sub-group focused on this topic. 11. 2115 12. 3073 13. 1697 14. 1202 16 hours of committe time to resolve 2310, 1084, 1202 assuming committed BC sub-group focused on this topic. 11:00AM Cliff moves to adjourn 15. 1251 16. 2289 17. 1504 18. 1144 19. 2081 20. 1553 21. 2684 22. 1861 23. 1523 24. 3074 25. 2124 + Future Agenda Items - Issue Resolution The committees are authorized to resolve issues. Shalom identified the following items ready for review: 154: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=154 931: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=931 968: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=968 991: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=991 1029: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1029 1162: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1162 1204 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1204 1222 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1222 1223: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1223 1685 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1685 2525: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2525 2533: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2533 2574: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2574 2734: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2734 Action Items Outstanding 05/24/10 Scott agreed to investigate need/impact of 1566 with his users. 05/10/10 Matt create Master Issue for WG-approved SV-BC Top-25 Complete 05/10/10 Matt include mapping of Top-25 to Feb meeting in WG presentation 05/10/10 Cliff send Mantis numbers for remainder of n/a items 05/10/10 Matt & Brad create presentation of Top-25 for 1800 WG 05/10/10 Matt & Brad include mention of Analog in 1800 WG presentation. 05/10/10 Gord create master mantis item for 3 $bits issues (Done: 3073) 05/10/10 Matt track down mantis items for n/a 1, n/a 2, n/a 5 (Done: n/a 1 = 2115, n/a 2 = 1956 & 2119, n/a 5 = 2124) 04/26/10 Matt to create master port item for 2273 & 2593 (Done: 3056) 04/26/10 Gord will create a master item for design topology issues. (Done: 3055) 04/26/10 Brad to create master item called: "Clarifications for virtual interfaces and interface ports" (Done: 3053) 04/26/10 Gord or anyone else provide URL or copy of interface paper if publicly available. (Done: See post http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/10226.html)