SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, June 7, 2010 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number in North America: 1-888-813-5316 Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-650-584-6338 Meeting ID: 7839818 02121 Day 74062 00000 Month 65544 11111 Year 00000 aaaaa Matt Maidment - Intel a-aaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aaaaa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aaaaa Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics -aaaa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer aaaaa Tom Alsop - Intel paapp Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design a--aa Tracy McDermott - Sunburst Design aaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel --aaa Don Mills - LCDM Engineering aaaaa Arnab Saha - Mentor Graphics ---aa Peter Flake - Elda Technology aaaaa Scott Little - Freescale aaa-a Daniel Schostak - ARM a-aaa Kaiming Ho - Fraunhofer Institute aaaa- Steven Sharp - Cadence aa-aa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence -aaa- David Gates - AMD aa-a- Eric Coffin - Mentor Graphics --a-- John Havlicek - Freescale a---- Rishiyur Nikhil - BlueSpec Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Reviewed. + Previous Meeting Minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_10_05_24.txt Shalom moves to accept the minutes. Dave Rich seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Effort Estimates for Top-25 The Top-25 issues were reviewed by the 1800 WG. http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/SV-BC_Scope_for_1800-2012.pdf The next step is a mapping of the Top-25 issues to a schedule. More specifically how many of the Top-25 issues can be completed by October 2011. To respond we need to estimate the effort for each issue and build a credible schedule for addressing as many issues as possible. The 1800 WG would like a response by June 24, 2010. We will continue reviewing the list of Top-25 SV-BC issues to attempt estimate effort: 1. 696 - 3 meeting hours 2. 2310 - with 1084 and 1202, 16 meeting hours 3. 3053 - 8 meeting hours + SV-BC sub-group time 4. 3055 - 8 meeting hours + SV-BC sub-group time; resource conflict 5. 2991 - 3 meeting hours 6. 1566 - Need more user info 7. 2114 - 4 meeting hours 8. 210 - 6 meeting hours 9. 3056 - 8 meeting hours 10. 1084 - with 2310 and 1202, 16 meeting hours 11. 2115 - 8 meeting hours 12. 3073 - 4 meeting hours (Sub-Total: 68 meeting hours) 13. 1697 - 4 meeting hours 14. 1202 with 1084 and 2310, 16 meeting hours 15. 1251 - 1 meeting hour 16. 2289 - 1 meeting hour 17. 1504 - 2 meeting hours 18. 1144 - 2 meeting hours 19. 2081 - 2 meeting hours 20. 1553 - 4 meeting hours 21. 2684 - 2+ meeting hours 22. 1861 - 16 meeting hours 23. 1523 - 2 meeting hours 24. 3074 - 8 meeting hours 25. 2124 - 2 meeting hours Total: 114 meeting hours 3056 Need to review the issues in detail, prioritize those that have the most impact and focus on those. Spend a medium effort to resolve what's most needed. Budget 8 meeting hours. 2115 Acknowledge the need for addressing 4-value issue. Most teams have internal coding methodology for this. Concerned that current behavior is too pessimistic. Concern that a partial solution will not solve the problem or won't be used and can't be removed later. Need's a lot of input and examples from users. Needs a sub-committee to bring forth more comprehensive proposals. Could be something like power-aware that comes outside of the language. 8 meeting hours. 3073 Some restrictions about usage of $bits may resolve these issues. The other option is to address each item, up to including run-time semantics. The former is likely less effort, the latter may prove desirable by users and worth pursuing. 1st step is to choose restricting usage or broadening to run-time. Off-line time to craft proposals. Time to resolve differences. Estimate 4 meeting hours. 1697 Should be considered with 1084. Would be more straight-forward if the syntax and semantics of macro language are clarified. Need to resolve issues like how to build identifiers with macros. Much off-line work required. 4 meeting hours to resolve. 1251 This seems very tractable. 1 meeting hour or less. Should be addressed this round. 2289 This seems very tractable. 1 meeting hour or less. Should be addressed this round. 1504 If they map into the same semantics of parameterized classes, then there's a good chance to resolve this. Should be more straight-forward than parameterized classes or parameterized tasks/functions.. Estimate 2 meeting hours assuming goes the way of parameterized classes. 1144 Specification is straight-forward but resurrects discussion about the benefit of warnings. Gord's preference is to table this. Steven added that vendors can add this functionality. Shalom mentioned that users complain about their code not being portable due to this. Would like something like an implicit assertion. There may be a performance impact by requiring simulator to account for this. Estimate 2 meeting hours to bring an issue without consensus to a vote. 2081 Do we want to strenghthen the rules to more strictly enforce the statements to match combinational logic? This could be a matter of being only slightly more specific. Because the LRM says that the implementation may warning on non-compliance, it may not be resolvable via the LRM. Do we want to resolve 225: "what is a blocking statement?" Estimate 2 meeting hours to bring 2081 without consensus to a vote. 1553 This issue is not controversial. It proposes to clarify nested module semantics. Needs off-line work to generate a proposal. Includes need for addressing interaction with configurations and name spaces. First priority might be to address edge cases where there are implementation differences or user confusion. Estimate 4 meeting hours. 2684 This is contentious. First step will be to pursue other features of the language to approximate this. A general, variable-width part-select enhancement is a major change to the language and implementations. Does not appear to be support for this kind of change. If this issue can be addressed with alternate syntax, then 2 meeting hours. Otherwise it will take a lot of time or be tabled altogether. 1861 Modports are ill-defined. Enhancement should be preceded by better defining modports or should include this definition. Alex believes the paper/proposal from Gord & Jonathan both clarifies and enhances modports. Worth recollecting opinion since paper/presentations made on this topic. Requires a working group to revisit interfaces and modports, more fully elaborate supporting proposals. Estimate 16 meeting hours. 1523 Seems straight-forward to address for arrays and structs. Biggest question may be enums. Needs some direction setting, a proposal and another meeting to resolve. Estimate 2 meeting hours and perhaps some interation with EC related to enums. 3074 Needs concrete proposals and much off-line work. 4-8 meeting hours to discuss, review and resolve. 2124 Contentious. Needs discussion. Budget 2 meeting hours. AI for Matt to roll-up these estimates and propose a "schedule" for resolving them by Oct 2011 for communication to 1800WG. SV-BC will review and close during June 21st meeting. 11:00AM Mark moves to adjourn. + Schedule Proposal for 1800 Need to summarize schedule discussion in advance of next 1800 WG meeting: June 24. + Future Agenda Items - Issue Resolution The committees are authorized to resolve issues. Shalom identified the following items ready for review: 154: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=154 931: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=931 968: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=968 991: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=991 1029: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1029 1162: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1162 1204 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1204 1222 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1222 1223: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1223 1685 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1685 2525: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2525 2533: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2533 2574: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2574 2734: http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2734 Action Items Outstanding 05/10/10 Matt create Master Issue for WG-approved SV-BC Top-25 06/07/10 Matt propose schedule for SV-BC through Oct 2011 Complete 05/24/10 Scott agreed to investigate need/impact of 1566 with his users. http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/10307.html