SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, August 1, 2011 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number in North America: 1-888-813-5316 Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-650-584-6338 Meeting ID: 45961 01202021211310202213101 Day 18063951844176285730629 00000000000001111000000 Month 87665544332112110998887 11111111111111111111111 Year 11111111111110000000000 aaaaaaaaa-aa-a-a-aaaaa- Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaa--aaaa-aaaaa-aaaaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence aa-aaa--a-aaaaaaaaa--aa Kaiming Ho - Fraunhofer Institute aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a Matt Maidment - Intel a-a-aa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a Tom Alsop - Intel a-aaaa-aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel aaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aa-a-aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics -aaaaaaaa-aa-aaaaa-aa-a Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics a--aaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Arnab Saha - Mentor Graphics -aa-aa-a-a-aaa-aa-aa-aa Eric Coffin - Mentor Graphics aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aa-aaa----aaaa-a-aaa--a Peter Flake - Accellera Rep aa---a----------------- Stu Sutherland - IEEE 1800 Editor a-aaaa----a-a---a-aa-aa Daniel Schostak - ARM ------------a--------a- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys ----------------------- Scott Little - Freescale ----------------------- John Havlicek - Freescale ----------aa------aaaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design ----------aa-aaa--a--aa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer ----------aaaa-aa---aaa Don Mills - LCDM Engineering ----------aa-a--------- David Gates - AMD -----------aa-aaaaa---- Linc Jepson - 74ze ----------------------- Rishiyur Nikhil - BlueSpec ------------------a---a Jonathan Bromley - Verilab Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Gord moved to consider it reviewed. Mark seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Review previous meeting minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_11_07_18.txt Dave moves to accept the minutes. Gord seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Arnaub (not present). Motion passes. + 2463 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2463 In feedback state. I think I mis-typed "This issue was not addressed during the 1800-2009 process." ^^^ and should have typed: "This issue was addressed during the 1800-2009 process." Final status should have been fixed and implemented in 1800-2009. AI: Dave talk to Neil about closing 2463. AI: Matt update his erroneous note in 2463 and send note to Neil. + 2889 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2889 Rejected by Champions. Shalom pointed out that SV-BC agreed with Champions comments and already opened a new Mantis item (3607). The ambiguity on the topic raised by Champions already there. This proposal improves the standard. AI: Matt send mail to Neil noting that Francoise withdraws objection and to resubmit to the Champions. The proposal addresses part of the issue, and her questions are recorded in Mantis 3067. + 3233 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3233 Brad would like to see an explicit statement that checkers are not included. Would like to see terms like 'design element' used instead. It was pointed out that packages cannot be instantiated. Gord raised that the SV-AC is enabling checkers to be instantiated in procedural constructs where wire declaration does not apply. Suggests adding a statement explicitly excluding Checker instances in procedural contexts. Steven agrees with this. AI: Shalom to update proposal for 3233 to state that checkers instantiated in non-procedural contexts should be included in list of eligible design elements. Send email to SV-AC notifying them of change. + 696 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=696 Shalom updated the proposal based on feedback from the Champions. Stu noted that references to example identifiers and $clog2 should be in courier font. Line wrap in one of the examples may not look the same as proposal. Shalom moves to accept updated proposal. Brad seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + 1504 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1504 Reviewed initial proposal based on Mantis 696. Turn proposal blue. Bold keywords. AI: Matt to open e-mail vote for 1504. + 2081 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2081 Typical case where this shows up as call of interface task in always_comb. Current proposal is problematic for existing tools and methods. To be consistent with synthesis, believe should treat tasks similar to void functions. Leave as-is. Pro: Loophole can be useful Con: Not completely specified Implementations check task for sensitivity Pro: Brings into alignment with Synthesis Con: could cause simulation problems for testbench/instrumentation code Implementations do not check task Pro: Probably better for testbenches Con: Simulation/Synthesis mismatch Gord would like to match synthesis behavior. Mark pointed out that this is used in testbenches and strictly forbidding tasks will be problematic. 10:56 Steven moves to adjourn + 3073 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3073 Identify sub-issues to be tackled. Top 25 Mantis Items 696 - Complete 2310(1084, 1201) - Participants: Eric, Tom, Shalom, Steven, Wilson Snyder 3053 - Participants: Francoise, Mark, Alex, Kaiming 3055 - Participants: Gord, Mark 2991 - Champion: Tom, Participants: Steven 1566 - For future discussion 2114 - Similar to 3053. Have same group look at it. 210 - Complete 3056 - Champion: Shalom, Participants: Steven, Francoise 1084 - Logical Expressions in Macros 2115 - X-Optimism/X-Pessimism resolution 3073 - Collected $bits issues 1697 - Macro Loops 1202 - Define Standard Preprocessor 1251 - X/Z behavior in various contexts 2289 - parameters inside comp unit & gen block are local 1504 - parameterized structs and unions 1144 - Out-of-bound array address 2081 - always_comb statements 1553 - nested module clarifications 2684 - variable part-selects 1861 - major modport enhancements 1523 - behavior of ?: on complex types 3074 - Connectivity Enhancements 2124 - `default_nettype var-type directive Action Items Complete 07/18/11 Gord to file an SV-CC issue to add a clarification that vpiLocalParam should be true for cases where parameter declared but it is a synonym for localparam as noted in 2289 and 3326. This is Mantis 3681. 06/06/11 Matt write proposal for 1504 12/06/10 Matt open new Mantis item covering determination of port kind for .named_port connection (23.2.2.3). Mantis item is 3607. Outstanding 05/10/10 Matt create Master Issue for WG-approved SV-BC Top-25 07/19/10 Jonathan post some items for discussion related to 2114 to reflector. 08/02/10 Brad give SV-BC feedback on Mantis 2992 to Mehdi 08/02/10 Eric start reflector thread on Mantis 2310 08/16/20 All send Shalom feedback about prioritizing the issues raised in port declaration issue summary: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/10498.html 09/13/10 Jonathan show simple examples of virtual interfaces, sub-interfaces and base classes in modules to demonstrate different methods for connecting design and testbenches. 09/27/10 Review Shalom's list of interface issues and suggest issues to tackle now. 11/22/10 Brad to file Mantis item for upward passing of interfaces. 01/31/11 All check with users regarding viability of rule that virtual interface declarations require that the referenced interface be previously parsed. 02/14/11 Users consider proposed restrictions and use-cases for varargs and provide feedback. 03/14/11 Matt check back with Gord and Mark in April about feedback regarding interface issues. 03/14/11 All drill down on 3055 and identify issues that would be straightforward to clarify regarding constant expressions, type operations and what is a hierarchical name. 03/28/11 Check with Gord in early June 2011 regarding 2856 and his proposal to limit hierarchical references for parameters in module instantiations. 05/23/11 Dave to review with Gord the slides referenced by Brad regarding issue 2108. 06/06/11 Dave write proposal for 1523 06/20/11 Steven write a proposal for 3595 07/18/11 Francoise generalize other wording in 23.7 as suggested by Shalom and complete proposal for 3608 07/18/11 Shalom resolve 1251 by referring to rules of if-statement (12.4) 07/18/11 File new mantis item to clarify determination of true/false for If-statement (12.4), while, do-while, iff, conditional operator and potentially others for all data types. Does Mantis 1974 sufficiently capture the issue? 07/18/11 File new mantis item to request clarification of Short-circuiting of &&, ||, ->, ?: (11.3.5) 08/01/11 Dave talk to Neil about closing 2463. 08/01/11 Matt update his erroneous note in 2463 and send note to Neil. 08/01/11 Matt send mail to Neil noting that Francoise withdraws objection and to resubmit to the Champions. The proposal addresses part of the issue, and her questions are recorded in Mantis 3067. 08/01/11 Shalom to update proposal for 3233 to state that checkers instantiated in non-procedural contexts should be included in list of eligible design elements. Send email to SV-AC notifying them of change. 08/01/11 Matt to open e-mail vote for 1504.