SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, August 15, 2011 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number in North America: 1-888-813-5316 Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-650-584-6338 Meeting ID: 45961 101202021211310202213101 Day 518063951844176285730629 000000000000001111000000 Month 887665544332112110998887 111111111111111111111111 Year 111111111111110000000000 aaaaaaaaaa-aa-a-a-aaaaa- Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaaa--aaaa-aaaaa-aaaaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a Matt Maidment - Intel -a-a-aa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a Tom Alsop - Intel aa-aaaa-aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel aaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaa-a-aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics a-aaaaaaaa-aa-aaaaa-aa-a Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics -a--aaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Arnab Saha - Mentor Graphics a-aa-aa-a-a-aaa-aa-aa-aa Eric Coffin - Mentor Graphics -aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aaa-aaa----aaaa-a-aaa--a Peter Flake - Accellera Rep aa-aaaa----a-a---a-aa-aa Daniel Schostak - ARM -aa-aaa--a-aaaaaaaaa--aa Kaiming Ho - Fraunhofer Institute (Observer) aaa---a----------------- Stu Sutherland - IEEE 1800 Editor (Observer) -------------a--------a- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys ------------------------ Scott Little - Freescale ------------------------ John Havlicek - Freescale -----------aa------aaaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design -----------aa-aaa--a--aa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer -----------aaaa-aa---aaa Don Mills - LCDM Engineering -----------aa-a--------- David Gates - AMD ------------aa-aaaaa---- Linc Jepson - 74ze ------------------------ Rishiyur Nikhil - BlueSpec -------------------a---a Jonathan Bromley - Verilab Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Gord moves to consider it reviewed. Mark seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Review previous meeting minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_11_08_01.txt Gord moves to accept minutes. Peter seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Eric, Alex (neither attended) Motion passes. + Email Vote Review http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11127.html Incomplete due to insufficient response. 1504 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1504 Gord moves to accetp rev 5 proposal. Alex seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. 3233 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3233 Peter - change "port list" to "port connection list" Steven moves to accept with Peter's friendly amendment. Gord seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + 696 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=696 Looks ok. + 3015 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3015 Per this mail: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11132.html Stu requested review by SV-BC. Steven moves to provide this feedback to the SV-AC: The proposed change to 20.2 could be interpreted as reserving other values for implementation-specific use. This could interfere with standardizing other values to have defined behavior in the future. The SV-BC would prefer that the behavior be left undefined and to strike the change to 20.2 in the proposal. Gord seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + 1251 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1251 Shalom posted a proposal to clarify for where true and false are defined for event expressions, wait statements and while-loops. Gord suggested for for wait and while that references false be changed to use the term true. Steven suggests the sentence in 12.7.4 be changed to: "The while-loop executes a statement repeatedly while an expression is true (as defined in 12.4)." Shalom does not disagree but feels this wording is really a different issue. Steven agrees with Gord that changing the reference to 'false' as 'not true' would be an improvement. Shalom is ok with that. AI: Shalom will update the proposal for 1251 to change 'false' to 'not true' AI: Matt will include 1251 in email ballot. + 1523 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1523 Discussion reached consensus supporting this change: In the last paragraph of 11.4.11 Insert the following bullet between the current two bullets: If the first expression and the second expression are of a dynamic array, queue, associative array or string then the the default-uninitialized value for that dynamic array, queue, associate array or string be returned. AI: Matt submit proposal for 1523. + 2081 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2081 Continue Discussion The loophole is seen as valuable for testbenches or diagnostics. Question is whether or not clamping down on this is a big help to the design/synthesis community. Gord has weak bias toward helping testbenches and not include sensitivity from task calls and leave it to tools to warn. Stu suggests that LRM required warning if task called in an always_comb. Peter suggests that if a reference to a task is made, to state that tasks do not have delays. Most feel this is not viable. Gord supports clarifying that a task enable is not combinational logic. Mark raised the point that now that we are promoting static class methods for design, then they should be part of the always_comb definition. Gord suggests current wording does not explicitly prevent this because these functions are called through class scope modifiers, not through objects. It was pointed out that synthesis of static methods may be done in the future. Consensus is to update 9.2.2.2 such that task enables may appear but are not considered combinational logic. May want to clarify that input arguments of task or function calls are considered as part of the implicit sensitivity. May want to clarify the behavior for calls to static class methods called through class scope modifiers. AI: Matt post consensus for 2081 to the reflector for feedback. 11:00AM Steven moves to adjourn. + 3073 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3073 Identify sub-issues to be tackled. Top 25 Mantis Items 696 - Complete 2310(1084, 1201) - Participants: Eric, Tom, Shalom, Steven, Wilson Snyder 3053 - Participants: Francoise, Mark, Alex, Kaiming 3055 - Participants: Gord, Mark 2991 - Champion: Tom, Participants: Steven 1566 - For future discussion 2114 - Similar to 3053. Have same group look at it. 210 - Complete 3056 - Champion: Shalom, Participants: Steven, Francoise 1084 - Logical Expressions in Macros 2115 - X-Optimism/X-Pessimism resolution 3073 - Collected $bits issues 1697 - Macro Loops 1202 - Define Standard Preprocessor 1251 - X/Z behavior in various contexts 2289 - Complete 1504 - Complete 1144 - Out-of-bound array address 2081 - always_comb statements 1553 - nested module clarifications 2684 - variable part-selects 1861 - major modport enhancements 1523 - behavior of ?: on complex types 3074 - Connectivity Enhancements 2124 - `default_nettype var-type directive Action Items Complete 08/01/11 Matt to open e-mail vote for 1504. 08/01/11 Shalom to update proposal for 3233 to state that checkers instantiated in non-procedural contexts should be included in list of eligible design elements. Send email to SV-AC notifying them of change. 08/01/11 Dave talk to Neil about closing 2463. 08/01/11 Matt update his erroneous note in 2463 and send note to Neil. 08/01/11 Matt send mail to Neil noting that Francoise withdraws objection to 2889 and to resubmit to the Champions. The proposal addresses part of the issue, and her questions are recorded in Mantis 3067. Outstanding 05/10/10 Matt create Master Issue for WG-approved SV-BC Top-25 07/19/10 Jonathan post some items for discussion related to 2114 to reflector. 08/02/10 Brad give SV-BC feedback on Mantis 2992 to Mehdi 08/02/10 Eric start reflector thread on Mantis 2310 08/16/20 All send Shalom feedback about prioritizing the issues raised in port declaration issue summary: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/10498.html 09/13/10 Jonathan show simple examples of virtual interfaces, sub-interfaces and base classes in modules to demonstrate different methods for connecting design and testbenches. 09/27/10 Review Shalom's list of interface issues and suggest issues to tackle now. 11/22/10 Brad to file Mantis item for upward passing of interfaces. 01/31/11 All check with users regarding viability of rule that virtual interface declarations require that the referenced interface be previously parsed. 02/14/11 Users consider proposed restrictions and use-cases for varargs and provide feedback. 03/14/11 Matt check back with Gord and Mark in April about feedback regarding interface issues. 03/14/11 All drill down on 3055 and identify issues that would be straightforward to clarify regarding constant expressions, type operations and what is a hierarchical name. 03/28/11 Check with Gord in early June 2011 regarding 2856 and his proposal to limit hierarchical references for parameters in module instantiations. 05/23/11 Dave to review with Gord the slides referenced by Brad regarding issue 2108. 06/06/11 Dave write proposal for 1523 06/20/11 Steven write a proposal for 3595 07/18/11 Francoise generalize other wording in 23.7 as suggested by Shalom and complete proposal for 3608 07/18/11 Shalom resolve 1251 by referring to rules of if-statement (12.4) 07/18/11 File new mantis item to clarify determination of true/false for If-statement (12.4), while, do-while, iff, conditional operator and potentially others for all data types. Does Mantis 1974 sufficiently capture the issue? 07/18/11 File new mantis item to request clarification of Short-circuiting of &&, ||, ->, ?: (11.3.5) 08/15/11 Shalom update proposal for 1251 to change 'false' to 'not true' 08/15/11 Matt will include 1251 in email ballot. 08/15/11 Matt post consensus for 2081 to the reflector for feedback. 08/15/11 Matt submit proposal for 1523.