SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, August 29, 2011 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number in North America: 1-888-813-5316 Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-650-584-6338 Meeting ID: 45961 2101202021211310202213101 Day 9518063951844176285730629 0000000000000001111000000 Month 8887665544332112110998887 1111111111111111111111111 Year 1111111111111110000000000 aaaaaaaaaaa-aa-a-a-aaaaa- Steven Sharp - Cadence aaaaaaa--aaaa-aaaaa-aaaaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a Matt Maidment - Intel --a-a-aa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a Tom Alsop - Intel aaa-aaaa-aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel aaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics aaaa-a-aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aa-aaaaaaaa-aa-aaaaa-aa-a Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics --a--aaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Arnab Saha - Mentor Graphics aa-aa-aa-a-a-aaa-aa-aa-aa Eric Coffin - Mentor Graphics a-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys aaaa-aaa----aaaa-a-aaa--a Peter Flake - Accellera Rep aaa-aaaa----a-a---a-aa-aa Daniel Schostak - ARM --aa-aaa--a-aaaaaaaaa--aa Kaiming Ho - Fraunhofer Institute (Observer) aaaa---a----------------- Stu Sutherland - IEEE 1800 Editor (Observer) --------------a--------a- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys ------------------------- Scott Little - Freescale ------------------------- John Havlicek - Freescale ------------aa------aaaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design ------------aa-aaa--a--aa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer ------------aaaa-aa---aaa Don Mills - LCDM Engineering ------------aa-a--------- David Gates - AMD -------------aa-aaaaa---- Linc Jepson - 74ze ------------------------- Rishiyur Nikhil - BlueSpec --------------------a---a Jonathan Bromley - Verilab Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Mark moves to consider it reviewed. Gord seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Review previous meeting minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_11_08_15.txt Gord moves to accept the minutes. Shalom seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Brad (did not attend) Motion passes. + Email Vote Review Review results of email vote: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11150.html 1251 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1251 Shalom moves to accept. With friendly amendment to change 'continuously' to 'repeatedly' for both 12.7.4 (while loop) and 12.7.6 (forever loop). Brad seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. AI: Brad update proposal for 1251 with friendly amendment 1523 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1523 Dave objects because he believes this changes the behavior for these data types. Dave would like to see the first or second expression returned when when the first and second expression are identical. AI: Dave make another attempt at addressing 1523. + Ports Shalom sent an initial draft of changes: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11176.html He would like everyone to review off-line and provide comments via email. + 2081 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=2081 After some discussion, modified consensus is: Consensus is that to update 9.2.2.2 that task enables may appear but their contents are not considered when computing the sensitivity of always_comb. May want to clarify that input arguments of task or function calls are considered as part of the implicit sensitivity. May want to clarify the behavior for calls to static class methods called through class scope modifiers. It was noted that handling of ref args is not defined for always_comb. Unsure if Mantis item is filed. AI: Matt to check if mantis item filed regarding handling of ref variables in always_comb blocks. AI: Steven to write a proposal for 2081 based on consensus reached during August 29, 2011 meeting. + 3073 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3073 Francoise believes 2856 is an important issue. $bits should not accept hierarchical references for constant expressions. Also asked about using $bits on a member select of a virtual interface-- seems ambiguous. Gord raised issue of $bits of a class reference. Streaming operators seem to rely on $bits but streaming and $bits of these data types are not clear. Gord also pointed to the following sentence 20.6.2 as being problematic: "The $bits system function returns the number of bits required to hold an expression as a bit stream" Gord also pointed out that $bits of a class handle is implying a derefence of that class handle and computing the bits of the class. But this has problems for self-referential classes among other complications. Definition needs to be clarified for many data types or restricted to a subset of expresssions. Straight-forward fixes likely conflict with current usage and will cause compatibility issues. General $bits issues: - $bits of some data types are not well defined (e.g. class handle) - What makes a $bits call constant? - What makes a $bits call non-constant? Need to step back and assemble a comprehensive list of issues. 11:01AM - Gord moves to adjourn. Top 25 Mantis Items 696 - Complete 2310(1084, 1201) - Participants: Eric, Tom, Shalom, Steven, Wilson Snyder 3053 - Participants: Francoise, Mark, Alex, Kaiming 3055 - Participants: Gord, Mark 2991 - Champion: Tom, Participants: Steven 1566 - For future discussion 2114 - Similar to 3053. Have same group look at it. 210 - Complete 3056 - Champion: Shalom, Participants: Steven, Francoise 1084 - Logical Expressions in Macros 2115 - X-Optimism/X-Pessimism resolution 3073 - Collected $bits issues 1697 - Macro Loops 1202 - Define Standard Preprocessor 1251 - X/Z behavior in various contexts - Under vote 2289 - Complete 1504 - Complete 1144 - Out-of-bound array address 2081 - always_comb statements - Consensus Reached 1553 - nested module clarifications 2684 - variable part-selects 1861 - major modport enhancements 1523 - behavior of ?: on complex types - Under vote 3074 - Connectivity Enhancements 2124 - `default_nettype var-type directive Action Items Complete 07/18/11 Shalom resolve 1251 by referring to rules of if-statement (12.4) 08/15/11 Shalom update proposal for 1251 to change 'false' to 'not true' 08/15/11 Matt will include 1251 in email ballot. 08/15/11 Matt post consensus for 2081 to the reflector for feedback. 08/15/11 Matt submit proposal for 1523. Outstanding 05/10/10 Matt create Master Issue for WG-approved SV-BC Top-25 07/19/10 Jonathan post some items for discussion related to 2114 to reflector. 08/02/10 Brad give SV-BC feedback on Mantis 2992 to Mehdi 08/02/10 Eric start reflector thread on Mantis 2310 08/16/20 All send Shalom feedback about prioritizing the issues raised in port declaration issue summary: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/10498.html 09/13/10 Jonathan show simple examples of virtual interfaces, sub-interfaces and base classes in modules to demonstrate different methods for connecting design and testbenches. 09/27/10 Review Shalom's list of interface issues and suggest issues to tackle now. 11/22/10 Brad to file Mantis item for upward passing of interfaces. 01/31/11 All check with users regarding viability of rule that virtual interface declarations require that the referenced interface be previously parsed. 02/14/11 Users consider proposed restrictions and use-cases for varargs and provide feedback. 03/14/11 Matt check back with Gord and Mark in April about feedback regarding interface issues. 03/14/11 All drill down on 3055 and identify issues that would be straightforward to clarify regarding constant expressions, type operations and what is a hierarchical name. 03/28/11 Check with Gord in early June 2011 regarding 2856 and his proposal to limit hierarchical references for parameters in module instantiations. 05/23/11 Dave to review with Gord the slides referenced by Brad regarding issue 2108. 06/06/11 Dave write proposal for 1523 06/20/11 Steven write a proposal for 3595 07/18/11 Francoise generalize other wording in 23.7 as suggested by Shalom and complete proposal for 3608 07/18/11 File new mantis item to clarify determination of true/false for If-statement (12.4), while, do-while, iff, conditional operator and potentially others for all data types. Does Mantis 1974 sufficiently capture the issue? 07/18/11 File new mantis item to request clarification of Short-circuiting of &&, ||, ->, ?: (11.3.5) 08/29/11 Brad update proposal for 1251 with friendly amendment 08/29/11 Dave make another attempt at addressing 1523. 08/29/11 Steven write a proposal for 2081 based on consensus reached during August 29, 2011 meeting. 08/29/11 Matt check if mantis item filed regarding handling of ref variables in always_comb blocks.