SV-BC Meeting Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 Time: 9:00am-11:00am PDT Toll Free Dial In Number in North America: 1-888-813-5316 Caller Paid Dial In Number: 1-650-584-6338 Meeting ID: 45961 212101202021211310202213101 Day 629518063951844176285730629 000000000000000001111000000 Month 998887665544332112110998887 111111111111111111111111111 Year 111111111111111110000000000 aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aa-a-a-aaaaa- Steven Sharp - Cadence a-aaaaaaa--aaaa-aaaaa-aaaaa Francoise Martinolle - Cadence aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-a Matt Maidment - Intel aa--a-a-aa-aaa-aaaaaaaaaa-a Tom Alsop - Intel a-aaa-aaaa-aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaa Shalom Bresticker - Intel -aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaa-aa Dave Rich - Mentor Graphics a-aaaa-a-aaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaaa Gordon Vreugdenhil - Mentor Graphics aaaa-aaaaaaaa-aa-aaaaa-aa-a Alex Gran - Mentor Graphics ----a--aaaaaaaaaaaa-aaaaaaa Arnab Saha - Mentor Graphics -aaa-aa-aa-a-a-aaa-aa-aa-aa Eric Coffin - Mentor Graphics aaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-aaa Brad Pierce - Synopsys aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Mark Hartoog - Synopsys a-aaaa-aaa----aaaa-a-aaa--a Peter Flake - Accellera Rep -aaaa-aaaa----a-a---a-aa-aa Daniel Schostak - ARM a---aa-aaa--a-aaaaaaaaa--aa Kaiming Ho - Fraunhofer Institute (Observer) aaaaaa---a----------------- Stu Sutherland - IEEE 1800 Editor (Observer) ----------------a--------a- Greg Jaxon - Synopsys --------------------------- Scott Little - Freescale --------------------------- John Havlicek - Freescale --------------aa------aaaaa Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design --------------aa-aaa--a--aa Heath Chambers - Consultant/Trainer --------------aaaa-aa---aaa Don Mills - LCDM Engineering --------------aa-a--------- David Gates - AMD ---------------aa-aaaaa---- Linc Jepson - 74ze --------------------------- Rishiyur Nikhil - BlueSpec ----------------------a---a Jonathan Bromley - Verilab Agenda + Review IEEE patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Gord moves to consider it reviewed. Mark seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Review previous meeting minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/minutes/sv-bc_11_09_12.txt Tom moves to accept minutes. Brad seconds. No opposed. Abstain: Francoise, Shalom, Gord, Peter (all did not attend). Motion passes. + 1523 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1523 Shalom posted a revised proposal here: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11253.html Gord suggests the following friendly amendments: From first paragraph, strike references to "legal" ",if legal," and "legal and" From second paragraph strike "and" from "and their results" Shalom moves to accep the proposal. Gord seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. AI: Shalom to post proposal for 1523 with friendly amendments. + Port Issues See Shalom's reflector post: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11176.html Dropped from agenda. Not mature enough to finish by Oct 1. + 3564 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3564 See http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11241.html Steven pointed out that concurrent assertions should not contribute as they are separate processes. Steven moves to provide the following feedback to SV-AC: "For immediate and deferred assertions, it seems logical to add their expressions to the implied sensitivity. The logic evaluation is still correct and assertion evaluation will also be correct. Extra sensitivity can lead to looping but will not negatively impact logical correctness. The BC participants do not want to see concurrent assertions contribute to the implied sensitivity of an always_comb. Moreover if the AC is certain that concurrent assertions should be placed in always_comb blocks, the BC requests well-defined semantics for how concurrent assertions work in procedural code in always_comb blocks." Gord seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. AI: Matt send to feedback on 3564 to SV-AC + 3608 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3608 Francoise posted a proposal in Mantis. Steven raised point that rules in 23.7 do not accurately state that after a variable select is identified, there is no back-tracking. Gord agrees, but for the purposes of this issue Francoise's proposal is a good improvement. Francoise clarified that her intent was to raise the issue addressed by the proposal and nothing more. Question was asked if this covers references to parameters in interface ports. Steven clarified that this is already addressed in the LRM. Francoise moves to accept the proposal. Mark seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. + Issues with $typename http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=3076 http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1511 Francoise believes that $typename is not well defined. Gord and Mark agree that the definition is severely lacking. Based on the scope of the work, everyone agreed that this be left for a future PAR. + 1067 - http://www.eda.org/svdb/view.php?id=1067 See http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/11215.html It was noted that the calling out of 7.2.2 in table 7-1 might catch some implementations by surprise, but seems correct. There is ambiguity about values of out-of-bounds accesss to nets and this proposal does not attempt to solve this. SV-BC acknowledges this and agrees that it does not detract from the proposal. Proposal does not address virtual interface handles in Table 7-1. BC believes this is simple to address. Proposal does not address slice that is partiall out-of-bounds. BC believes this should be handled such that parts that are in bounds return their legal values while parts that are out-of-bounds are handled as described in Table 7-1. Friendly Amendments 1. Add a row to table 7-1 after class handle where the first cell contains "virtual interface" and the second cell contains "null" 2. All keywords in all cells of table 7-1 should be in bold and use courier font. Francoise moves to accept the proposal with the above friendly amendments. Shalom seconds. No opposed. No abstain. Motion passes. AI: Matt close with Jonathan Bromley on updating the proposal for 1067 Next meeting very tentatively scheduled for October 10. Potential agenda items are Champions feedback or implemented issue review. 10:42AM: Brad moves to adjourn. Top 25 Mantis Items 696 - Complete 2310(1084, 1201) - Participants: Eric, Tom, Shalom, Steven, Wilson Snyder 3053 - Participants: Francoise, Mark, Alex, Kaiming 3055 - Participants: Gord, Mark 2991 - Champion: Tom, Participants: Steven 1566 - For future discussion 2114 - Similar to 3053. Have same group look at it. 210 - Complete 3056 - Champion: Shalom, Participants: Steven, Francoise 1084 - Logical Expressions in Macros 2115 - X-Optimism/X-Pessimism resolution 3073 - Collected $bits issues 1697 - Macro Loops 1202 - Define Standard Preprocessor 1251 - Resolved 2289 - Complete 1504 - Complete 1144 - Out-of-bound array address 2081 - Resolved 1553 - nested module clarifications 2684 - variable part-selects 1861 - major modport enhancements 1523 - Resolved 3074 - Connectivity Enhancements 2124 - `default_nettype var-type directive Action Items Complete 09/12/11 Dave update proposal for 1523 per friendly amendment. 09/26/11 Shalom to post proposal for 1523 with friendly amendments. Outstanding 05/10/10 Matt create Master Issue for WG-approved SV-BC Top-25 07/19/10 Jonathan post some items for discussion related to 2114 to reflector. 08/02/10 Brad give SV-BC feedback on Mantis 2992 to Mehdi 08/02/10 Eric start reflector thread on Mantis 2310 08/16/20 All send Shalom feedback about prioritizing the issues raised in port declaration issue summary: http://www.eda.org/sv-bc/hm/10498.html 09/13/10 Jonathan show simple examples of virtual interfaces, sub-interfaces and base classes in modules to demonstrate different methods for connecting design and testbenches. 09/27/10 Review Shalom's list of interface issues and suggest issues to tackle now. 11/22/10 Brad to file Mantis item for upward passing of interfaces. 01/31/11 All check with users regarding viability of rule that virtual interface declarations require that the referenced interface be previously parsed. 02/14/11 Users consider proposed restrictions and use-cases for varargs and provide feedback. 03/14/11 Matt check back with Gord and Mark in April about feedback regarding interface issues. 03/14/11 All drill down on 3055 and identify issues that would be straightforward to clarify regarding constant expressions, type operations and what is a hierarchical name. 03/28/11 Check with Gord in early June 2011 regarding 2856 and his proposal to limit hierarchical references for parameters in module instantiations. 05/23/11 Dave to review with Gord the slides referenced by Brad regarding issue 2108. 06/20/11 Steven write a proposal for 3595 07/18/11 Francoise generalize other wording in 23.7 as suggested by Shalom and complete proposal for 3608 07/18/11 File new mantis item to clarify determination of true/false for If-statement (12.4), while, do-while, iff, conditional operator and potentially others for all data types. Does Mantis 1974 sufficiently capture the issue? 07/18/11 File new mantis item to request clarification of Short-circuiting of &&, ||, ->, ?: (11.3.5) 09/12/11 Matt check that all implemented Mantis items for Draft 2 have been reviewed. 09/26/11 Matt send to feedback on 3564 to SV-AC 09/26/11 Matt close with Jonathan Bromley on updating the proposal for 1067