RE: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364

Stu,

1. So you would change
"Clause 20 has been modified to reflect this change."
to
"Clause 21 has been modified to reflect this change." ?

2. Without connection to the renumbering, I don't like the sentence
"The other Clauses and Annexes have been eliminated entirely."
We haven't really eliminated them, just deprecated them,
and replaced them with pointers to 1364-2001. Suggestions?

3. Again, the notes:

> > Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> > 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> > reference manual have been removed as a result.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> > Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.

are not quite accurate. Suggestions?

Thanks,
Shalom

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:

> Shalom,
>
> IMHO, there is not a problem with the passages that you have cited.
> References to clause numbers in 1364-2001 are valid references, and won't
> change. References to clauses in the new P1364 standard are, presumably,
> links, that will update automatically if the clause numbering changes.
> Readers will need to mentally map clause 21 of the new standard to clause 20
> of the old standard, but the mapping is obvious, and the cross reference
> numbers accurate.
>
> I like the dictionary.com definition of deprecated that you quoted. I had
> not seen that before.
>
> Stu
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Stuart Sutherland
> stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> +1-503-692-0898
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-sv-cc@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-cc@eda.org] On
> > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:26 AM
> > To: Stuart Sutherland
> > Cc: ieee1800@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
> > Subject: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> >
> > Stuart,
> >
> > The problems of confusion are with the following passages (from D5):
> >
> > 1.4 Contents of this standard
> >
> > A synopsis of the clauses and annexes is presented as a quick
> > reference. There are 28 clauses and 9 annexes. All clauses,
> > as well as Annex A, Annex B, and Annex G, are normative parts
> > of this standard. Annex C, Annex D, Annex H, and Annex I are
> > included for informative purposes only.
> >
> > The IEEE Std 1364-2005 specification has deprecated the TF
> > and ACC routines which were specified previously in Clause 20
> > through Clause 25, Annex E and Annex F of the IEEE Std
> > 1364-2001 Verilog reference manual. Clause 20 has been
> > modified to reflect this change. The other Clauses and
> > Annexes have been eliminated entirely.
> >
> > 20. PLI overview
> >
> > 20.1 PLI purpose and history (informative)
> >
> > The IEEE Std 1364-2005 specification has deprecated the TF
> > and ACC routines which were specified previously in Clause 20
> > through Clause 25, Annex E and Annex F of the IEEE Std
> > 1364-2001 Verilog reference manual. Clause 20 has been
> > modified to reflect this change. The other Clauses and
> > Annexes have been eliminated entirely.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> > 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> > reference manual have been removed as a result.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> > Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.
> >
> > I accept your suggestions about being more explicit in the
> > deleted sections and writing, e.g.,
> > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > Clause 21, PLI
> > > TF and ACC interface mechanism, for the contents of this clause.
> >
> > Just for the record, note that 'deprecation' is not deletion.
> > dictionary.com, for example, says that, 'deprecated' means
> >
> > "Said of a program or feature that is considered obsolescent
> > and in the process of being phased out, usually in favour of
> > a specified replacement. Deprecated features can,
> > unfortunately, linger on for many years. This term appears
> > with distressing frequency in standards documents when the
> > committees writing the documents realise that large amounts
> > of extant (and presumably happily working) code depend on the
> > feature(s) that have passed out of favour."
> >
> > So PLI 1.0 is still part of 1364-2005, just not printed with it.
> >
> > Shalom
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:
> >
> > > Shalom,
> > >
> > > The PLI 1.0 deprecation left the original clause title for each
> > > deprecated clause, and replaced the contents of the clause with a
> > > short paragraph stating it was deprecated and that the
> > original could be found in 1364-2001.
> > > Specifically, it states (from P1364/D5 Clause 21):
> > >
> > > ------------
> > > Clause 21, PLI TF and ACC interface mechanism (deprecated)
> > >
> > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001 for the
> > > contents of this clause.
> > > ------------
> > >
> > > The fact that the title of the clause has been retained from the
> > > 1364-2001 LRM is sufficient for readers to find the
> > information in the 1364-2001 LRM.
> > > However, a simple editorial change could make the reference
> > more clear
> > > if/when the P1364-2005 LRM changes clause numbering. All that is
> > > needed is to add the 1364-2001 clause number to this message. I
> > > suggest adding the title as it appeared in 1364-2001, as well.
> > >
> > > For example, in the renumbered P1364-2005 Clause 22, we would have:
> > >
> > > ------------
> > > Clause 22, PLI TF and ACC interface mechanism (deprecated)
> > >
> > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > Clause 21, PLI
> > > TF and ACC interface mechanism, for the contents of this clause.
> > > ------------
> > >
> > > The 1364-2001 references won't change, no matter what
> > happens with the
> > > numbering in this or future versions of P1364. IMHO, this is an
> > > editorial change that does not need any formal approval process.
> > >
> > > Stu
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Stuart Sutherland
> > > stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> > > +1-503-692-0898
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-ieee1800@eda.org [mailto:owner-ieee1800@eda.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:47 AM
> > > > To: ieee1800@eda.org
> > > > Cc: sv-cc@eda.org
> > > > Subject: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to remind that if we have to renumber the clauses in
> > > > 1364 in order to add Normative References as Clause 2 and
> > move all
> > > > the others by one, that is going to mess up the
> > descriptions of the
> > > > PLI 1.0 deprecation.
> > > >
> > > > Clauses 21-25 in 1364-2001 would be 22-26 in 1364-2005.
> > > > How do you describe what clauses were deprecated without causing
> > > > confusion?
> > > >
> > > > Shalom
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > > > @freescale.com
> > > > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > > > +972 9 9522268
> > > > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > > > +972 9 9522890
> > > > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > > > +972 50 5441478
> > > >
> > > > [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> > > > Proprietary
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > @freescale.com
> > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > +972 9 9522268
> > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > +972 9 9522890
> > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > +972 50 5441478
> >
> > [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> > Proprietary
> >
> >
> >
>
>

-- 
Shalom Bresticker                        Shalom.Bresticker @freescale.com
Design & Verification Methodology                    Tel: +972 9  9522268
Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd.                 Fax: +972 9  9522890
POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL                     Cell: +972 50 5441478
  
[ ]Freescale Internal Use Only      [ ]Freescale Confidential Proprietary