RE: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364

Stu,

I like your suggestion. Thanks.

I'll have to similarly wordsmith the passages in Clause 20:

> Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> reference manual have been removed as a result.
>
> ...
>
> Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.

Shalom

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:

> Shalom,
>
> Yes, the references to Clause 20 of P1364-2005 would change to Clause 21.
> References to Clause 20 of 1364-2001 would remain unchanged.
>
> I agree that "eliminated" could use some wordsmithing. I think this can be
> done as an editorial change, at the discretion of the editor (like
> correcting "will" to "shall").
>
> My suggestion, as a member of the CC committee, for you first passage, is to
> change
>
> FROM:
> "The other Clauses and Annexes have been eliminated entirely."
>
> TO:
> "The text of deprecated clauses and annexes has been removed from this
> version of the standard, but the clause headings have been retained. Refer
> to the matching clause in IEEE Std. 1364-2001 for the deprecated text."
>
>
> This does not change the meaning of the approved change. It simply more
> accurately states the changes that were made. When I made editorial
> wordsmithing changes in P1800, I would strike out the old text and put the
> new wording in color, so that anyone who objected would have a chance to do
> so. We won't have that luxury this time, as the next draft is to be the
> clean ballot draft. So, please send out an e-mail of any wordsmithing you
> do on this, to give other members of the CC committee a chance to voice
> their opinion, if they wish to.
>
> This is just my opinion that this is an editorial change. The opinion of
> others on the committee may be different.
>
> Stu
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Stuart Sutherland
> stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> +1-503-692-0898
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-sv-cc@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-cc@eda.org] On
> > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:18 AM
> > To: Stuart Sutherland
> > Cc: ieee1800@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
> > Subject: RE: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> >
> > Stu,
> >
> > 1. So you would change
> > "Clause 20 has been modified to reflect this change."
> > to
> > "Clause 21 has been modified to reflect this change." ?
> >
> >
> > 2. Without connection to the renumbering, I don't like the sentence
> > "The other Clauses and Annexes have been eliminated entirely."
> > We haven't really eliminated them, just deprecated them,
> > and replaced them with pointers to 1364-2001. Suggestions?
> >
> >
> > 3. Again, the notes:
> >
> > > > Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> > > > 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> > > > reference manual have been removed as a result.
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> > > > Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > > Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.
> >
> > are not quite accurate. Suggestions?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Shalom
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:
> >
> > > Shalom,
> > >
> > > IMHO, there is not a problem with the passages that you have cited.
> > > References to clause numbers in 1364-2001 are valid
> > references, and won't
> > > change. References to clauses in the new P1364 standard
> > are, presumably,
> > > links, that will update automatically if the clause
> > numbering changes.
> > > Readers will need to mentally map clause 21 of the new
> > standard to clause 20
> > > of the old standard, but the mapping is obvious, and the
> > cross reference
> > > numbers accurate.
> > >
> > > I like the dictionary.com definition of deprecated that you
> > quoted. I had
> > > not seen that before.
> > >
> > > Stu
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Stuart Sutherland
> > > stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> > > +1-503-692-0898
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: owner-sv-cc@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-cc@eda.org] On
> > > > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:26 AM
> > > > To: Stuart Sutherland
> > > > Cc: ieee1800@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
> > > > Subject: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> > > >
> > > > Stuart,
> > > >
> > > > The problems of confusion are with the following passages
> > (from D5):
> > > >
> > > > 1.4 Contents of this standard
> > > >
> > > > A synopsis of the clauses and annexes is presented as a quick
> > > > reference. There are 28 clauses and 9 annexes. All clauses,
> > > > as well as Annex A, Annex B, and Annex G, are normative parts
> > > > of this standard. Annex C, Annex D, Annex H, and Annex I are
> > > > included for informative purposes only.
> > > >
> > > > The IEEE Std 1364-2005 specification has deprecated the TF
> > > > and ACC routines which were specified previously in Clause 20
> > > > through Clause 25, Annex E and Annex F of the IEEE Std
> > > > 1364-2001 Verilog reference manual. Clause 20 has been
> > > > modified to reflect this change. The other Clauses and
> > > > Annexes have been eliminated entirely.
> > > >
> > > > 20. PLI overview
> > > >
> > > > 20.1 PLI purpose and history (informative)
> > > >
> > > > The IEEE Std 1364-2005 specification has deprecated the TF
> > > > and ACC routines which were specified previously in Clause 20
> > > > through Clause 25, Annex E and Annex F of the IEEE Std
> > > > 1364-2001 Verilog reference manual. Clause 20 has been
> > > > modified to reflect this change. The other Clauses and
> > > > Annexes have been eliminated entirely.
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> > > > 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> > > > reference manual have been removed as a result.
> > > >
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> > > > Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > > Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.
> > > >
> > > > I accept your suggestions about being more explicit in the
> > > > deleted sections and writing, e.g.,
> > > > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > > Clause 21, PLI
> > > > > TF and ACC interface mechanism, for the contents of this clause.
> > > >
> > > > Just for the record, note that 'deprecation' is not deletion.
> > > > dictionary.com, for example, says that, 'deprecated' means
> > > >
> > > > "Said of a program or feature that is considered obsolescent
> > > > and in the process of being phased out, usually in favour of
> > > > a specified replacement. Deprecated features can,
> > > > unfortunately, linger on for many years. This term appears
> > > > with distressing frequency in standards documents when the
> > > > committees writing the documents realise that large amounts
> > > > of extant (and presumably happily working) code depend on the
> > > > feature(s) that have passed out of favour."
> > > >
> > > > So PLI 1.0 is still part of 1364-2005, just not printed with it.
> > > >
> > > > Shalom
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Shalom,
> > > > >
> > > > > The PLI 1.0 deprecation left the original clause title for each
> > > > > deprecated clause, and replaced the contents of the
> > clause with a
> > > > > short paragraph stating it was deprecated and that the
> > > > original could be found in 1364-2001.
> > > > > Specifically, it states (from P1364/D5 Clause 21):
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------
> > > > > Clause 21, PLI TF and ACC interface mechanism (deprecated)
> > > > >
> > > > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001 for the
> > > > > contents of this clause.
> > > > > ------------
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact that the title of the clause has been retained
> > from the
> > > > > 1364-2001 LRM is sufficient for readers to find the
> > > > information in the 1364-2001 LRM.
> > > > > However, a simple editorial change could make the reference
> > > > more clear
> > > > > if/when the P1364-2005 LRM changes clause numbering.
> > All that is
> > > > > needed is to add the 1364-2001 clause number to this
> > message. I
> > > > > suggest adding the title as it appeared in 1364-2001, as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, in the renumbered P1364-2005 Clause 22,
> > we would have:
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------
> > > > > Clause 22, PLI TF and ACC interface mechanism (deprecated)
> > > > >
> > > > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > > Clause 21, PLI
> > > > > TF and ACC interface mechanism, for the contents of this clause.
> > > > > ------------
> > > > >
> > > > > The 1364-2001 references won't change, no matter what
> > > > happens with the
> > > > > numbering in this or future versions of P1364. IMHO,
> > this is an
> > > > > editorial change that does not need any formal approval process.
> > > > >
> > > > > Stu
> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > > Stuart Sutherland
> > > > > stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> > > > > +1-503-692-0898
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: owner-ieee1800@eda.org
> > [mailto:owner-ieee1800@eda.org] On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:47 AM
> > > > > > To: ieee1800@eda.org
> > > > > > Cc: sv-cc@eda.org
> > > > > > Subject: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd like to remind that if we have to renumber the clauses in
> > > > > > 1364 in order to add Normative References as Clause 2 and
> > > > move all
> > > > > > the others by one, that is going to mess up the
> > > > descriptions of the
> > > > > > PLI 1.0 deprecation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clauses 21-25 in 1364-2001 would be 22-26 in 1364-2005.
> > > > > > How do you describe what clauses were deprecated
> > without causing
> > > > > > confusion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Shalom
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > > > > > @freescale.com
> > > > > > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > > > > > +972 9 9522268
> > > > > > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > > > > > +972 9 9522890
> > > > > > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > > > > > +972 50 5441478
> > > > > >
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> > > > > > Proprietary
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > > > @freescale.com
> > > > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > > > +972 9 9522268
> > > > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > > > +972 9 9522890
> > > > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > > > +972 50 5441478
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> > > > [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> > > > Proprietary
> > > >
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> > >
> >
> > --
> > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > @freescale.com
> > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > +972 9 9522268
> > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > +972 9 9522890
> > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > +972 50 5441478
> >
> > [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> > Proprietary
> >
> >
> >
>
>

-- 
Shalom Bresticker                        Shalom.Bresticker @freescale.com
Design & Verification Methodology                    Tel: +972 9  9522268
Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd.                 Fax: +972 9  9522890
POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL                     Cell: +972 50 5441478
  
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