SV-EC Ballot resolution committee meeting. Monday April 13 2009 11:00am - 1:00pm PDT [ http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_April_13_2009_Minutes.txt ] [NOTE: The April 13th 2009 meeting will resume the following week, on Monday April 20 2009.] Meeting number: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 0 1 Meeting Days: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (1 ) Day (3 ) (0 ) Month (4 ) (0 ) Year (9 ) ------ Attendees -------------------------------------------------------- (A) Arturo Salz 1 (A) Cliff Cummings 1 (A) Dave Rich 1 (A) Francoise Martinolle 1 (A) Mehdi Mohtashemi 1 (A) Neil Korpusik 1 (A) Ray Ryan 1 (-) Gordon Vreugdenhil 0 (A) Steven Sharp 1 (-) Doug Warmke 0 (A) Stu Sutherland 1 (A) Heath Chambers 1 (A) Don Mills 1 (A) Jonathan Bromley 1 (A) Mark Hartoog 1 (A) Tom Alsop 1 (-) Satia (Intel) 0 (-) Rob Slater 0 (-) Alex Gran - Mentor 0 (A) Mike Mintz 0 (-) Geoffrey Coram 0 (A) David Scott 0 (-) Benjamin Chen 0 (-) Mike Burns 0 On April 13 2009, voting rights are reset. ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// April 13 2009 ///////////////////////// There was some discussion about the amount of notice that people received before this meeting (11 days). This notice was sent out immediately after last p1800WG meeting on April 2 2009. The following was decided: - Everyone is allowed to vote today. - The 2 out of 3 meeting tracking will apply starting at the next meeting, planned for April 27 2009. Agenda: 1. Review IEEE patent policy ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Move: Stu - assume patent policy was read Second: Dave Abstain: None Opposed: None Approved 2. Review meeting minutes/notes: July 21 2008 meeting minutes http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_July_21_2008_Minutes.txt Dave - thinks this is a new committee meeting. Francoise - in the sv-cc they reviewed their previous meeting minutes. Move: Cliff - approve the meeting minutes of July 21 2008 Second: Heath Abstain: Steven Opposed: None Approved with one abstain 3. Updates from p1800WG ------------------------------------------------------ The P1800 Will be meeting this Thursday April 16 2009. Cliff - in sv-bc, some items were flagged as trivial, people took AI's for proposals, some items will be flagged as "out of scope". 3.1: Ballot resolution for March 2009 p1800 Ballot. [From Karen Pieper email] The Ballot Comments from the March 2009 P1800 Ballot can be found at: http://www.eda.org/twiki/bin/view.cgi/P1800/P1800BallotReviewFeedback Because this is twiki, we can update this file and work on it. Our next step is to look over the ballot feedback for each committee, and report back to the P1800 by 4/16 as to how long each committee thinks they require to address the feedback. The current target is May 14, 2009. AI; Mehdi - conduct an email vote on the trivial items. [Some may require proposals to become ready] Mehdi: Gord had sent an email to the reflector regarding some sv-ec ballot issues he wanted to follow-up. Those were rows: 149, 150, 151, 152, 160, 163-166 From Shalom's version of the spreadsheet: (was attached to today's agenda email) The set of sv-ec items begin on line 125 of the spreadsheet. rows 125-127 - id 16, 17, 19 Francoise - from sv-cc: these PLI regions should remain - may have a future use. Cliff - thinks we should keep them Arturo , Stu - also agreed Jonathan - may need to update figure in line 127. 125, 126 - sv-ec agrees with sv-cc resolution to keep these regions for possible future use 127 - sv-ec thinks there is no action required. row 128 - id 20 Steven - he added this comment, and thinks it should be updated. Arturo - which queue is being referred to? Steven - the active queue, is what it is talking about AI: Steven - row 128, id 20; put together a proposal, mantis 2634 row 130, id 21: row 130 -- is a string a singlular or aggregate data type? Steven - not sure if he knows the answer on this one. Mehdi - we can not do anything without a proposal. AI: Steven - row 130, id 21, will gather some input on this. row 131 - id 184, bit-stream cast to destination class must be constructed or made illegal Dave - would like to make it illegal, LRM talks about class as a source Neil - thought that we already made this illeagal. Dave - couldn't find any text stating that. AI: Dave - row 131, id 184; put together a proposal. row 132 - id 30, row 133 - id 31, same issue Jonathan - sounds like a trivial and reasonable change. Arturo - it should say 'integral' AI: Arturo - row 132, 133, id 30 & 31; write it up, both 132 and 133 134 - Dave - it is trivial Cliff - not required and low priority Stu - the spreadsheet has an example to add. AI: Stu - row 134, id 35; writeup a proposal 135 - id 36 136 - id 37 137 - id 38 138 - id 39 139 - id 40 Steven - only the first one is a real problem - note, we now have a type of type "type" Jonathan - can't assign to a type. "a variable of type string" AI: Jonathan - combine rows 135-139 [ids: 36-40] into one mantis item. 140 - id 186, mantis 2288 Dave - add to an email ballot. AI: Dave - row 140, id 186; put together a proposal. 141 - id 43, wildcard Jonathan - this is a valid fix AI: Dave - row 141, id 43; put together a proposal for this 142 - id 44 Jonathan - trivial. no track record for assinging error Steven - would expect consistency between assigning one versus assigned together. This comment was with regards to issuing of an error message. AI: Jonathan - row 142, id 44; will put together a proposal. 143 - id 188, order for find and find_index, mantis 1721 Dave - it should be trivial to define AI: Dave - row 143, id 188; will look into 141, 144 144 - id 45, combine with line 141 AI: Dave - row 144, id 45; combine this with row 141, id 43 145 - id 46 Stu - We can just remove that one sentence about "..convention" AI: Stu - row 145, id 46; will write a proposal 146 - id 47 Steven - it is unpredictable. Doesn't agree with the comment. Arturo - dereferencing a null c pointer - is an error Francoise - table says it is "not allowed" (Table 8.1) Arturo - section 8.4 - says it is illegal. - we should make all places in the LRM consistent. Jonathan - why are we comparing to C anyway? section 8.4 Mehdi - one proposal is to remove the table, or make it a note. * Marked as non-trivial, Francoise will follow-up. 147 - id 181, mantis 2035 Francoise - Dave's mantis item Dave - causes user confusion. Arturo - may be a fair amount of work to change the BNF Steven - they were there in an earlier version of the standard AI: Dave - row 147, id 181; follow-up on thisfor now 148 - id 48 Steven - assumes it should be allowed - will take some work Arturo - we could live with the restrictive version for now * Reviewed; Leave for future enhancement... 149 - id 49 Arturo - Gord wanted it to be more like the c-style steven - we will most likely have differences of opinion, without a "killer example" that makes it more obvious. AI: Gord - row 149, id 49 [not here, but on his list to discuss/review] 150 - id 50, mantis 2575 Arturo - this one is fairly clear. Francoise - there are more issues listed in the mantis item Arturo - not a huge item, may require discussion AI: Francoise - row 150, id 50; will follow-up for now 151 - id 51, using super in constructor Stu - it is not an editorial issue Arturo - there were still some issues with initializers, etc. AI: Francoise & Gord - row 151, id 51; will follow-up for now 152 - id 52, Put it together with row 151, id 51. Mark - thinks this one should be easy AI: Francoise - row 152, id 52; will follow-up 153 -id 67, mantis 2358 Francoise - related to 149 Arturo - should be easy to resolve AI: Francoise - row 153, id 67; will look at it. 154 - id 53 Francoise - thinks there should be a rewording. AI: Francoise - row 154, id 53; will follow-up. 155 - id 54 Arturo - we will need to discuss it Neil - it is stated as being an enhancement Mark - clearly an enhancement * row 155, id 54 An enhancement 156 - id 55 Steven - they are at least static Dave - is this.parameter_name a valid reference? Arturo - today can refer to a type this way Mark - should be ok in a procedural expression. Steven - thinks the answer is yes. AI: Francoise - row 156, id 55; will follow-up, non-trvial 157 - id 57 Cliff - it is trivial AI: Cliff - row 157, id 57; put together a proposal 158 - id 182, mantis 2514 Arturo - an enhancement but trivial Dave - had some comments AI: Dave - row 158, id 182; follow-up, proposal, maybe trivial. 159 - id 58 Dave - editorial issue Jonathan - agreed Stu - may not even need a mantis item. AI: Mehdi - row 159, id 58; editoral, assign to editor. 160 - id 59, AI: Gord - row 160, id 59; related to id 50. 161 - id 60 Steven - Editorial AI: Mehdi - row 160, id 60; editoral, assign to editor 162 - id 61 Francoise - editorial AI: Mehdi - row 162, id 61; editoral, assign to editor 163 - id 62 Francoise - out of block declaration Mark - thinks it could be resolved by May 14th. 164, id 63 - 165, id 64 - 166, id 65 - all related. AI: Gord, & Francoise - rows 163-166, id [59-62]; to follow-up. 167 - id 183 Dave - clocking block issues, thinks it is trivial - no proposal yet AI: Dave - row 167, id 183; follow-up, non-trivial 168 - id 80 Jonathan - a proposal already exists. - Mantis 890 wording didn't match the consensus. AI: Mehdi - row 168, id 80; proposal exists, add to email vote 169 - id 81 Arturo - would be more complicated to define it than to leave it alone. AI: Mehdi - row 169, id 81; send to sv-ac; sv-ec has no change to recommend. 170 - id 101 AI: Mehdi - row 170, id 101; send to sv-ac 171 - id 102 Mehdi - editorial? Stu - it appears to be. AI: Ray - row 171, id 102; put together a proposal 172 - id 189 AI: Dave - row 172, id 102; follow-up, nontrivial 173 - id 190 AI: Dave - row 173, id 190; follow-up, nontrivial 174 - id 104 David SCott - this appears to be editorial Stu - assign it to the editor AI: Mehdi - row 174, id 104; assign to editor. 175 - id 105 David S. - not sure why nets and wires need to be mentioned. Dave - passing by ref might be the issue. Francoise - we can't do coverage of wires, it appears Steven - a wire is an expression. Stu - the wording could cause problems. Dave - see Mantis 1575 AI: David Scott - row 175, id 105, follow-up, non-trivial 176 - id 106 David - the answer is "nothing" AI: David Scott - row 176, id 106, follow-up, maybe trivial 177 - id 107 David - this is actually an ambiguous situation - he would like this to be true AI: David Scott - row 177, id 107, follow-up, non-trivial 178 - 108 Stu - editorial AI: Mehdi - row 178, id 108; assign to editor. 179 - 109 Arturo - expects this to be trivial, unless we don't understand it Jonathan - blocking event triggering issue? AI: Francoise - row 179, id 109; try to get more information 180 - 110 Dup of 175, id 105 AI: David - row 180, id 110; make sure it is a duplicate 181 - id 111 David S. - this would add another wierd special case. Neil - an enhancement request Don - spreadsheet doesn't say it must be addressed Steven - backward compatability issue if we make the change AI: Francoise - row 181, id 111; get more clarification. David & Arturo to help. 182 - id 112 David - editorial AI: Mehdi - row 182, id 112, assign to editor 183 - id 113 David - it appears to be editorial AI: David - row 183, id 113, follow-up, trivial. 184 - id 114 David - this section tends to not define terms well, but he thought that this sentence was clear, in context. Arturo - state bins not defined (they are those bins that are transitions) David - he is inclined to not fix it. Arturo - maybe just removing the word "state" would work. AI: Arturo - row 184, id 114, put a proposal together; non-trivial there will be other places that would need to be touched 185 - id 115 Arturo - no fix is required... Doesn't understand the problem David - understands the paragraph AI: Mehdi - row 185, id 115; no change needed 186 - id 116 David S. - will require changes AI: David, Gord - row 186, id 116; follow-up. non-trivial 187 - id 117 Arturo - editorial AI: Mehdi - row 187, id 117; assign to editor 188 - id 118 Clif - editorial AI: Mehdi - ro2 188, id 118; assign to editor 189 - id 119 Arturo - editorial AI: Mehdi - ro2 189, id 119; assign to editor 190 - id 121 AI: David - row 190, id 121; follow-up, non-trivial. 191 - id 122 AI: Mehdi - row 191, id 122; assign to editor 192 - id 120 Arturo - doesn't understand the comment AI: Arturo - row 192, id 120, follow-up, non-trivial. 193 - id 134 AI: Mehdi - row 193, id 134; send it to the sv-bc 194 - id 135 AI: Mehdi - row 194, id 135; send it to the sv-bc (duplicate of id 134) 195 - id 137 AI: Mehdi - row 195, id 137; assign to editor 196 - id 185 Dave - a semantic note or a bnf change is required Arturo - Assumes there is wide cosensus on this one. AI: Dave - row 196, id 185; follow-up, trivial. 197 - id 192 - deprecate the linked list package Mehdi - we should take a look at it. AI: Dave - row 197, id 192; follow-up, non-trivial. Issues that may not be trivial: row number, id number 1. 130 21 2. 143 188 3. 146 47 4. 147 181 5. 149 49 - expect it to have a difference of opinion 6. 150 50 7. 151 51 8. 156 55 - requires some discussion 9. 167 183 10. 172 189 11. 173 190 12. 175 105 13. 177 107 14. 181 111 15. 184 114 16. 186 116 17. 190 121 18. 192 120 19. 197 192 NOTE: -------- All proposals need to be in Mantis, except for purely Editorial issues. Reference the line and id number from the spreadsheet. 4. Next meetings in 2009 --------------------------------- With respect to today's meeting and the number of issues to review, suggested to have weekly calls. Move: Don made the proposal to suspend today's meeting and resume next week. Second: Neil Abstain: none Opposed: none approved, Monday April 20 2009 11:00-1:00pm Monday April 27 2009 11:00-1:00pm Weekly meetings after that ================= Action item list provided for sv-ec =================== ============ from April 13 2009 meeting =================== AI: Mehdi - conduct an email vote on the trivial items.[requires proposals] AI: Steven - row 128, id 20; put together a proposal, mantis 2634 AI: Steven - row 130, id 21, will gather some input on this. AI: Dave - row 131, id 184; put together a proposal. AI: Arturo - row 132, 133, id 30 & 31; write it up, both 132 and 133 AI: Stu - row 134, id 35; writeup a proposal AI: Jonathan - combine rows 135-139 [ids: 36-40] into one mantis item. AI: Dave - row 140, id 186; put together a proposal. AI: Dave - row 141, id 43; put together a proposal for this AI: Jonathan - row 142, id 44; will put together a proposal. AI: Dave - row 143, id 188; will look into 141, 144 AI: Dave - row 144, id 45; combine this with row 141, id 43 AI: Stu - row 145, id 46; will write a proposal AI: Dave - row 147, id 181; follow-up on thisfor now AI: Gord - row 149, id 49 [not here, but on his list to discuss/review] AI: Francoise - row 150, id 50; will follow-up for now AI: Francoise & Gord - row 151, id 51; will follow-up for now AI: Francoise - row 152, id 52; will follow-up AI: Francoise - row 153, id 67; will look at it. AI: Francoise - row 154, id 53; will follow-up. AI: Francoise - row 156, id 55; will follow-up, non-trvial AI: Cliff - row 157, id 57; put together a proposal AI: Dave - row 158, id 182; follow-up, proposal, maybe trivial. AI: Mehdi - row 159, id 58; editoral, assign to editor. AI: Gord - row 160, id 59; related to id 50. AI: Mehdi - row 160, id 60; editoral, assign to editor AI: Mehdi - row 162, id 61; editoral, assign to editor AI: Gord, & Francoise - rows 163-166, id [59-62]; to follow-up. AI: Dave - row 167, id 183; follow-up, non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 168, id 80; proposal exists, add to email vote AI: Mehdi - row 169, id 81; send to sv-ac; sv-ec has no change to recommend. AI: Mehdi - row 170, id 101; send to sv-ac AI: Ray - row 171, id 102; put together a proposal AI: Dave - row 172, id 102; follow-up, nontrivial AI: Dave - row 173, id 190; follow-up, nontrivial AI: Mehdi - row 174, id 104; assign to editor. AI: David Scott - row 175, id 105, follow-up, non-trivial AI: David Scott - row 176, id 106, follow-up, maybe trivial AI: David Scott - row 177, id 107, follow-up, non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 178, id 108; assign to editor. AI: Francoise - row 179, id 109; try to get more information AI: David Scott - row 180, id 110; make sure it is a duplicate AI: Francoise - row 181, id 111; get more clarification. AI: Mehdi - row 182, id 112, assign to editor AI: David Scott - row 183, id 113, follow-up, trivial. AI: Arturo - row 184, id 114, put a proposal together; non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 185, id 115; no change needed AI: David Scott , Gord - row 186, id 116; follow-up. non-trivial AI: Mehdi - row 187, id 117; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - ro2 188, id 118; assign to editor AI: Mehdi - ro2 189, id 119; assign to editor AI: David Scott- row 190, id 121; follow-up, non-trivial. AI: Mehdi - row 191, id 122; assign to editor AI: Arturo - row 192, id 120, follow-up, non-trivial. AI: Mehdi - row 193, id 134; send it to the sv-bc AI: Mehdi - row 194, id 135; send it to the sv-bc (duplicate of id 134) AI: Mehdi - row 195, id 137; assign to editor AI: Dave - row 196, id 185; follow-up, trivial. AI: Dave - row 197, id 192; follow-up, non-trivial.