SV-EC committee meeting. Monday February 14 11:00am - 1:00pm PDT [ http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_February_14_2011_Minutes.txt ] Meeting number: 75% = 10 out of 13 meetings attended ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1111000000000 3210987654321 Meeting Days: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (1102021213101) Day (4762851730629) (0011111000000) Month (2121100998887) (1111111111111) Year (1100000000000) ------ Attendees -------------------------------------------------------- 1. (AAAAAAAAAAAAA) Arturo Salz 13 - y 2. (AAAAAAAAAA-AA) Dave Rich 12 - y 3. (AAAAAA--AAAAA) Francoise Martinolle 11 - y 4. (AAAAAAAAAAAAA) Mehdi Mohtashemi 13 - y 5. (AAAAAAAAAAAAA) Neil Korpusik 13 - y 6. (A-AAAAAAAAAAA) Ray Ryan 12 - y 7. (AAAAAA-AAAAAA) Gordon Vreugdenhil 12 - y 8. (AAA-AAAAAAAAA) Steven Sharp 12 - y 9. (A-AAA---A--AA) Heath Chambers 7 - y (2 of last 3) 10. (AA--AA----AAA) Don Mills 7 - y (2 of last 3) 11. (AAAAAAAAAAAAA) Mark Hartoog 13 - y 12. (AAAAAAAAAAA-A) Tom Alsop 12 - y 13. (AA-AAAAAAAAAA) Jonathan Bromley 12 - y 14. (A-AA--AAAA--A) Neil S 8 - y (2 of last 3) 15. (A-----A-AAAAA) Cliff Cummings 7 16. (A-AAAAAA-A--A) Alex Gran 9 - y (2 of last 3) 17. (AA---A-AAAAAA) Daniel Schostak 9 - y (2 of last 3) 18. (--------AAAAA) Swapnajit Chakraborti 5 19. (AA-AA-AAAA---) Linc Jepson 8 - y (2 of last 3) 20. (--AAAA-------) Tony Tsai 5 - y (2 of last 3) 21. (AAAA-A-------) Brandon Tipp 5 - y (2 of last 3) 22. (---A---------) John Halvicek 1 23. (AAAA---------) Scott Little 4 - y (2 of last 3) 24. (--A----------) Dave Gates 1 25. (A-A----------) Mark Strickland 2 - y (2 of last 3) 21 people will have voting rights in the next meeting ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// February 14 2011 ///////////////////////// Agenda: 1. Review IEEE patent policy ------------------------------------------------------ http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Move: Cliff Second: Neil S. Abstain: Opposed: Passed/approved unanimously 2. Approval of previous meetings minutes: ------------------------------------------------------ December 6 2010 and January 17 2011 meetings http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_December_6_2010_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_January_17_2011_Minutes.txt Move: Jonathan Second: Gord Abstain: Alex abstain on Jan 17th, not present Opposed: Passed/approved unanimously 3. Updates from P1800 WG --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Participation and voting guidelines, other updates. There was a meeting Feb 14th. The new participation rules will be discussed in the next Working Group meeting (March 10) Updates from IEEE Jeita meeting 1/27/2011 Jeita is trying to determine their level of participation. They will definitely be reviewing the LRM for IEEE approval. Working group meeting of 2/10/2011 - First draft of 1800-2012 is being pushed out (from Feb 28 to April 15th) - Elections of chairs in all TCs have been approved - Verilog-AMS - working direction is for an 1800 dot-standard (eg 1800.1) - currently under Accellera - assumption is for it move to IEEE at some point in future. - They requested a copy of the source for the LRM Don - would like to know if removed from the reflectors. Cliff - consultants can be paid to represent an Entity. 4. Continue Review and discussion of top 25 issues and categories: ------------------------------------------------------ Review of the top 25 [+10+3]; 9 have been approved. 2794 - Jonathan uploaded a proposal (02/12/11) Jonathan - will make a correction to the note at the top (1076 versus 1067) 1067 - Jonathan will upload a proposal for it as well. - It adds a couple of missing entries to table 7-1 Neil - this falls under the permission given to us from the WG. (prerequisites can be addressed) 696 Ballot Feedback Issue 225: Add parameterized tasks and functions [Was passed in October in svbc, requested to review this in sv-ec] Gord - the proposal doesn't change the language Jonathan - it is like a note, not a real clause. - It may belong in an interpretation document. Gord - A possible question for the Working Group Cliff - it does become normative text. Arturo - it is more like a note to the synthesis folks. Neil - Would like to get a committee vote on it, we can not address the WG question. Move: Neil - approving the 696_Parametrized_Functions_rev6.pdf Second: Gord Abstain: Opposed: Passed/approved unanimously 2506 [2953] Coverage [Scott] Scott - got some feedback from John Havlicek - section 19.5 and section 19.6 - John questioned the <> syntax shown on page 10. Francoise - why do we need new syntax? Arturo - we are defining an array. Jonathan - We already have an array defined. Arturo - it would be illegal to just drop the <> Jonathan - there are tuple values. bins one = < '{ '{1,2}, '{3,4}, '{5,6} } >; Scott - the <> list is restricting the cross bins. Jonathan - 3 points in the cross. Mehdi - any of the members could be values 1 or 2. Francoise - couldn't we have used the inside operator to do this? Arturo - not sure how to use the inside operator on a multi-dim object Francoise - it would need to be enhanced. Arturo - could possibly specify an array identifier Gord - if have <, and more than 1 array inside <>, it is valid? Could have a , separating the arrays. This is a set of values. The example is syntacticly confusing. Need <> as a set of delimiters around the set. Ray - is RHS always an array of arrays? if so, doesn't see the need for the delimiters (<>) Arturo - it is legal to cross more than two items. Gord - the normal concatenation syntax ({}) could be used. Ray - the inner array in this case is an array of tuples. Current syntax for an array of arrays is allowed today, why can't we just reuse that syntax. Cliff - p.9 bins x[] = {[0:10]}; could [] be used on the cross bin names as well? - what will the names of the bins be for the cross? Francoise - there would need to be a naming rule. - doesn't think we need <> Scott - defining a function within a cross? Gord - would need to think through implications of allowing that. Scott - adding a datatype for a coverpoint Cliff - what does it do for you? - we can't do much with a coverpoint Jonathan - gives you the explicit bit pattern Scott - will check if cover_point_identifier is really required. Arturo - data type of the coverpoint becomes the datatype of the expression - there was some motivation for wanting this? Cliff - not sure why everyting is being added when the proposal doesn't show how to use Scott - John - "Coverpoint bin with clause" need to ensure the phrase "evaluates to true" is well defined. The use of the with-clause in this context is new. Jonathan - need to specify if it is the same as the use of "if" Gord - default names of coverpoints -- there is some inherint naming abmbiguity here. Scoping rules for name visibility. coverpoint b { bins func[] = b with (myfunc(item)); } Arturo - May not want to allow this case. - suggesting to not introduce a new scope. Gord - should show an example expression that points out the problem with same names used for coverpoint and the bin. Need to use fully qualified reference in that case, if we go down this path. Jonathan - 'with' isn't a keyword (is this right?) Arturo - could use the same trick with 'item', it would have a specific meaning in this context. (Note: 'with' is in annex b) Gord - would need to ensure fork/join none isn't allowed. Allowed today, based on context of the call. Arturo - why do we need to disallow fork/join none here? Gord - we would need to state there is no procedural context in this case to disallow. - functions called in a with clause of a cp is not a procedural context. Artuto - deferred assertions may also be an issue today. Gord - a procedural continuous assign, not defined. fork/join none - not clear what the implementation would do. Functions called from an unpredictable context arn't allowed to spawn threads. Ray - a function calling another function is not a way around this rule. Gord - making the function sufficiently pure allows implementations some freedom on how to evaluate. Gord - constant functions - don't want to apply that rule here. The context must also be constant(?) - functions that would qualify for constant function designation if they were called in a constant context. Scott - pure functions are well defined in LRM today? (yes) Functions shall be automatic (or preserve no state information) and have no side effects. Ray - shouldn't there be an 'and' in this sentence? (the part about preserving state information) Steven - it would be nice for a $display to be used, for debugging Gord - continusous assignments, scheduling, etc. have interesting aspects. As with array manipulation methods involving 'with' (Sec. 7.12), if the expression has side effects, the results are unpredictable. Gord - side-effects are already disallowed? Steven - operators could also have side-effects (++, --) Scott - the with-expression is evaluated when the cg is instantiated. AI/All - discuss this proposal over email. 3278 virtual method type rules [Francoise] Mehdi - needed for 1356 3279 Enhance method override rules to allow covariant typing [Francoise] Francoise - thinks most vendors are currently supporting this. Should be able to write up what is already there. 5. Next meetings February and March 2011 ----------------------------------------------------- Monday February 14 2011 Regular biweekly Monday February 28 2011 Declard DVCon Holiday, no Regular biweekly meeting Monday March 14 2011 Regular biweekly Monday March 28 2011 Regular biweekly mantis items to review ================================ 2993 Coverage Cross cover points across different cover groups [Arturo, Swapnajit] 3002 Aspect Oriented Programming (AOP) features [Tom] 3046 Dotted names within inlined constraints [Gord] 3082 Daniels' top items [3075, 3076, 3077, 3078, 3079, 3080, 3081] 3003 [2987, 2988] constraint composition [Jonathan, Tom, Ray, Arturo] 2735 ballot comment #48, chaining.. [Arturo, Steven, Gord] 2848 Is it legal to assign an interface containing class declaration to a virtual interface [Francoise] [hold for next few meetings: sv-bc is also looking at interfaces] 1356 Interface Classes [Multiple inheritance] [Tom, Brandon] [next 3 are related to 1356; added per WG approval] 3278 virtual method type rules [Francoise] 3279 Enhance method override rules to allow covariant typing [Francoise] 3293 Clarify $cast behaviour on class handles [Jonathan ] 3001 Proper Polymorphic behavior of instantiation [Jonathan, Tom, Francoise] 2999 Class Handle reference inside of Constraints [Tom, Ray, Arturo] 1706 Meaning of static prefix for virtual interface assignments [Mark, Steven, Francoise] 2488 Are virtual method calls legal within class constructors? [Steven, Francoise] 2112 Remove restrictions on NBA assigments to class members [Dave, Steven] 1442 Clocking blocks legal in modports, missing from text description in 20.9 [Steven] 2900 - Associative array should consider the context of an lvalue to create an entry [Dave] 3254 - 18.5.6 if-else constraints mistakenly uses the work "block" when it means "set" [Dave] 2794 - Clarify queue methods return status FOR References: --------------------------------------------------------------------- =========== from February 14 2011 meeting =================== AI: 2506 All - discuss this proposal over email. =========== from January 17 2011 meeting =================== AI: 2848 Mehdi - hold this off for the next 3 or 4 sessions. AI: 1356 Tom/Team state the differences between extensions and inheritance. ============ from December 6 2010 meeting =================== AI: 2845 Francoise - update the proposal with these changes. AI: 2848 Francoise - update the proposal with these changes. AI: 1356 Tom - update the proposal with some of the issues being raised. AI: 1356 all - review the new proposal before the next meeting. ============ from November 22 2010 meeting =================== AI: 2848, 2845; Franocoise update the proposals. AI: 2505; Neil S., update the proposal. AI: 2506; put the proposal into the required format AI: everyone to review and be ready to discuss during next time. ============ from November 8 2010 meeting =================== AI: Minutes; Mehdi - will check for consistency between the left and right sides for the attendance. AI: for 1356 Multiple Inheritance (interface classes) Mehdi - will make a request to the WG on this. General statement about being allowed to work on mantis items that are affected. AI: Jonathan - NULL within $cast AI: Gord - the OVM people would like to have that. Covariant and Contravarianct type extensions. you allow method that do not allow exact type signature of over-written method, but can return the objects of the type of original return type, impact of that would be on Interface classes. AI: Gord - Overwriting of virtual method section AI: Tom - update the proposal (to number 4) ============ from October 25 2010 meeting =================== AI: 1356 Tom - update the proposal, make corrections and more normative text. All - provide more detailed feedback to Tom. ============ from October 11 2010 meeting =================== AI: related to 2505 All - should we allow enum constants to be accessed by the dot? AI: 2953 Mehdi - make 2953 a child of 2506 Mehdi - make a request in this week's P1800 meeting to work on 2506 AI: 2080, 1672, 802 Neil - update the mantis items (3 of them) AI: 251 Mehdi, leave mantis 251 open AI: 2794 Mehdi, reopen mantis item for feedback Jonathan: update AI: 2949 Jonathan: send email to Brad to get clarification on his feedback. ============ from September 27 2010 meeting =================== AI: 3003 Tom - will get feedback on specific examples. (see 18.7 for information on the with-clause) AI: 3003 Jonathan - will get an email discussion going. ============ from September 13 2010 meeting =================== AI: Coverage item Swapnajit - will provide a note for clarification, to be added to Mantis 1802 AI: Coverage item Swapnajit - will put together a proposal for this issue. [related to 19.5.3 wildcard specification] AI: 2848 Francoise - Will do a write-up for this proposal. AI: 2845 Francoise - will try to write-up for this. ============ from August 30 2010 meeting =================== AI:2956 Mehdi making a note to the editor for adding cross reference. AI: 2794 Jonathan will make the friendly amendment. AI:3028 Jonathan create a proposal and upload it for more discussion and vote next meeting. ============ from August 16 2010 meeting =================== AI: 3028 Jonathan - write up the parallel proposals. AI: 2794 Jonathan - add text for the case where indices are x, z AI: 1442 Steven - check if Shalom's comments make this issue moot. AI: 1349 Steven: create the proposal for 1349 AI: 2451 Steven put a proposal together. AI: 2993 Tom; will check internally to see if these meet their needs AI: 2993 Mehdi; upload the email as a note to the mantis item AI: 2993 Arturo; will donate their implementation. ============ from Aguust 2 2010 meeting =================== AI: 1706 Steven put together an email for bc to provide feedback on 4 options Mehdi can send to sv-bc AI: 2993 Swapnajit: add a note to the mantis item as to where we currently are in the process. AI: 2953 Ray - take a look at this one ============ from July 19 2010 meeting =================== AI:Tom get confirmation from users about exact intent of the original request for 3001 AI: Francoise will add a note to the mantis item 2848 AI: Gord will write up a proposal for 3046 AI: Ray will add a bugnote 2999 ============ from June 21 2010 meeting =================== AI/Mehdi - For number 30 on the list, 'no-mantis item 6' send email to Matt about linking this request to mantis 2991. AI/ALL - assigned leaders/champions to start looking at the top 25 items on the list and plan for proposals/discussions/reviews. ============ from June 7 2010 meeting =================== AI/Tom - some examples would be useful [mantis 2987, soft constraints] AI/Cliff - what is actually required. [mantis 2117] Allow extending of covergroups in classes AI/Cliff, John H. - more details on this request, item number 30 [no mantis 6: allow re-use of enumerated names (slide 31) AI/All - find mantis items that can be closed, or easily resolved. - any of the 0.5h estimate items could be considered as well. ============ from May 24 2010 meeting =================== AI/Tom and others: mantis 3002 AOP: any more clarifications from users perspective. AI/users: mantis 1356: Multiple inheritance:what are the particular requests? clarifications. AI/Tom - Mantis 3003, we need more clarification from user base ============ from May 10 2010 meeting =================== AI/Jonathan - create mantis items for No-Mantis-10. Completed action items: ============ from April 26 2010 meeting =================== AI/Mehdi - add a column for enhancement versus clarification AI/Mehdi - add a column for amount of work required. AI/Mehdi - add sheets for the various categores in the Google doc. AI/Mehdi - send out a link to the p1800 spreadsheet. AI/Mehdi - add a column for duplicates AI/All - send input on the list of categories. AI/ALL - until May 5th to provide any inputs on the spreadsheet. ============ from April 12 2010 meeting =================== AI/Mehdi - Look at the Google Docs and creaet spreadsheet for collaborative efforts. Also add cross committee column to the spreadsheet. AI/All - send inputs on any new items by April 24 2010, this is deadline for any item that is not already in the mantis database. AI/All - prioritize and categorize list of items that are in the spreadsheet to be reviewed during the next two sv-ec meetings. AI/Neil - email to cliff on proxy right --------------------------------------------- Summary table: Assigned Lead/Champions --------------------------------------------- 1 2848 Francoise 2 3002 Tom, Dave, Jonathan, Francoise, Arturo, Neil S., Cliff, Gord 3 3046 Gord, Franocise, Mark, Ray 4 1356 Tom [same with 3002] 5 3001 Jonathan, Tom, Francoise 6 2999 Tom, Ray, Arturo, 7 3003 [2987, 2988] Jonathan, Tom, Ray, Arturo, 8 3082 Daniel, Jonathan, 9 2845 Francoise, Mark, Alex Neil S., Gord? 10 2956 Steven, 11 2505 Neil S., Mark, Francoise 12 2735 Arturo, Steven, Gord, 13 1706 Mark, Steven, Francoise, 14 2488 Steven, Francoise, 15 2112 Dave, Steven, 16 3028 Arturo, Ray, Neil S., Mehdi, 17 2950 Francoise, 18 2794 Jonathan, Steven 19 2993 Tom, Ray, Swapnajit (cadence) 20 1442 Steven, 21 2953 Ray 22 1349 Steven 23 2949 Jonathan, Steven 24 2451 Steven, 25 2987 Jonathan (combining 2987, 2988, see 3003) ------------------------------------- [next 10] 26 3006 Ray, Steven, 27 3004 Tom 28 2998 Tom 29 2117 Cliff?? 30 No Mantis 6 could be linked with 2991 with sv-bc 31 2928 Ray, Arturo, 32 2787 ?? (Daniel)?? 33 2972 ?? (Daniel)?? 34 2996 Tom, 35 2988 already assigned (see 3003) 36 No Mantis 4 related to AOP (already covered) -------------------------------------------------------------- == List with estimates ======= hrs top 2t mantis Id 4 1 2848 12 2 3002 1 3 3046 16 4 1356 2 5 3001 3 6 2999 5 7 3003 8 8 3082 4 9 2845 0.5 10 2956 3 11 2505 4 12 2735 1 13 1706 2 14 2488 2 15 2112 2 16 3028 2 17 2950 1 18 2794 4 19 2993 0.5 20 1442 6 21 2953 0.5 22 1349 0.5 23 2949 4 24 2451 4 25 2987 92 total 46 (2hr sessions) 0.5 26 3006 4 27 3004 2 28 2998 4 29 2117 4 30 No Mantis 6 0.5 31 2928 4 32 2787 2 33 2972 2 34 2996 0 35 2988 0 36 No Mantis 4 23 total 11 sessions ====================================== top 25 Id Number of Votes weighted vote Summary Degrees of difficulty Cateogory Sub-Category 1 2848 7 159 Is it legal to assign an interface containing class declaration to a virtual interface med Virtual Interface and class 2 3002 8 125 Aspect Oriented Programming (AOP) features High class constraints 3 3046 8 112 Dotted names within inlined constraints Low class Strings/Arrays 4 1356 6 112 Multiple Inheritance High class Strings 5 3001 9 102 Proper Polymorphic behavior of instantiation low class Arrays 6 2999 7 99 Class Handle reference inside of Constraints med class constraints 7 3003 6 98 Constraint Composition High Randomization Strings 8 3082 7 96 (4) Ambiguity resolution (see slide 10 for examples of parts of the Standard that have been interpreted differently by different simulators) 9 2845 4 84 virtual interface type checking versus interface type that had been defparam'ed high Virtual Interface Misc / function proto 10 2956 4 76 clarify class 'process' definition (9.7 vs 18.13.3, 18.13.4, 18.13.5) low Process control 11 2505 4 76 class select: what is allowed after the dot? low class 12 2735 4 73 Ballot Comment #48: Chaining of method calls med class constraints 13 1706 4 72 Meaning of static prefix for virtual interface assignments Virtual Interfaces 14 2488 4 69 Are virtual method calls legal within class constructors? med VI OO classes 15 2112 6 69 Remove restrictions on NBA assigments to class members med class constraints 16 3028 6 68 constraints for unique array elements. Med Randomization 17 2950 4 67 virtual method prototype matching low class 18 2794 4 64 Clarify queue methods return status low class 19 2993 4 63 Cross cover points across different cover groups med Built-in Methods 20 1442 3 63 Clocking blocks legal in modports, missing from text description in 20.9 Functional Coverage 21 2953 6 61 Algorithmic generation of covergroup bin contents high clocking block 22 1349 5 61 fork/join_none: what if parent thread terminates without blocking statement? Functional Coverage 23 2949 4 60 LRM is silent about the semantics of referencing a clocking block output low Process control constraints 24 2451 6 58 Omitting body defaults med clocking block constraints 25 2987 6 56 Soft Constraints med class Misc / function proto 26 3006 5 55 LRM doesn't say explicitly what should happen if null pointer is randomized low class Data Types 27 3004 5 55 Ability to declare/qualify classes/methods/variables/constraints final med class Virtual Interface 28 2998 4 55 Solve Before enhanced low Randomization class 29 2117 3 52 Allow extending of covergroups in classes high Functional Coverage class 30 No Mantis 6 5 51 (3) Allow reuse of enumerated names (slide 31) cross-committee Randomization 31 2928 3 50 ambiguous restriction on function calls in constraint expressions low Randomization Randomization 32 2787 3 50 reference via scope operator to parametrized superclass item med class Randomization 33 2972 3 49 add class constructor/method, task/function overloading High class Randomization 34 2996 4 49 Method overloading High class Randomization 35 2988 2 48 Defaults Constraints med Randomization Process control 36 No Mantis 4 2 47 (1) AOP when-inheritance (slide 31) Class/AOP Functional Coverage