SV-EC Committee Meeting Monday July 10 2006 11:00am - 1:00pm PST [Minutes distributed for approval at next (sv-ec) committee meeting] (102112102021 ) Day (993337082560 ) (100000000000 ) Month (211233455667 ) (000000000000 ) Year (566666666666 ) --------- Attendees ---------- (AAAAAAAAAAAA ) Arturo Salz (-AAA-A-AAAAA ) Cliff Cummings (A-AAAAAAAAAA ) Dave Rich (AAAAAAAAAAAA ) Francoise Martinolle (AAAAAAAAAAAA ) Mehdi Mohtashemi (AAAAAAAAAAAA ) Neil Korpusik (AAAAAAaAAAAA ) Ray Ryan (-AAAAA-AAAA- ) Gordon Vreugdenhil (----AAAAAaAA ) Steven Sharp (-A--AA----A- ) Phil Moorby (---AAA---A-A ) Stu Sutherland (--AAAaaA---- ) Surrendra Dudani (AA---------- ) Doug Warmke (-----a------ ) Don Mills (Aa---------- ) Chris Spear (-----------A ) Heath Chambers ^^------------ Considered ONE MEETING. ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// July 10, 2006 ///////////////////////// Logistics note: You can use *6 for mute/unmute key sequence Agenda: 1. IEEE patent policy ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Move: Cliff- Assume that the patent policy was read Second: Neil Abstain: none Opposed: none passed 2. Review Meeting minutes, of and June 5th and June 26th 2006 http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_June_05_2006_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_June_26_2006_Minutes.txt Move: Cliff- Approve the minutes of June 5 and 26, 2006 Second: Neil Abstain: none Opposed: none passed 3. Action items review. Action items: June 26, 2006 ------------------------- [DONE] AI: 889 Ray take out "and shall treat it as a state variable". last paragraph. [DONE] AI: 889 Mehdi will update mantis with a new .pdf with the latest fix by Ray. (so that the red/blue shows up). [DONE] AI: 978 Neil update the proposal - 5.15.1 add the new paragraph here, or even earlier. [DONE] AI: 978 Dave: mantis item for partitiong constraints for array locator methods. ---> new item 1517 (Enhancement) AI: 1330 Gord - new language proposal to handle the port connection issues. AI: 1330 Dave - examples via email on the issue with ports in interfaces [DONE] AI: 1424 Neil - update the proposal and update with the same changes for c.5 Action items: June 5th, 2006 ------------------------- [DONE] AI: 1313 Gord - make an update to item 3. to use "intersection" terminology. AI: 889 Arturo - create a mantis item describing how to handle the null handles for class, to be included in 13.3 Next to last sentence can go away -- blue in proposal. [DONE] AI: Ray - redo 889 use a different process for updating this mantis item, so that we don't continue to have problems seeing the new text and the strike-outs. rewording: in general dynamic array does a resize with initialization of elements. same effect as x=new (random size ) [DONE] AI: 1382 Ray - update the proposal with our feedback. add text afterward for the discussion text [DONE] AI: 978 Neil - update 5.15.3, one sentence - "Array reduction methods can be applied to any unpacked arrays of integral types. Action items: May 22, 2006 ------------------------- [DONE] AI: 889 Ray - redo 889 proposal Action items: May 8, 2006 ------------------------- AI: 976 Dave - put a proper proposal in place AI: 960 Mehdi - discuss this with Matt to resolve the overlap. Action items: April 10, 2006 ----------------------------- AI: 1330 Dave, add the example list to do. AI: 261/262 combined Steven put together some examples of overflow -- Arturo unsigned/signed examples. Action items: March 13, 2006 ---------------------------- AI: new item - Gordon to create a new mantis item for randomize() method call item (Ray, Gordon have discussed - still working on it internally) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Continue with review mantis items with proposal -------------------------------------------------- 978 5.15 array methods, minor errata (Shalom/Neil) [1270 is a duplicate] Neil: updated the mantis item this past weekend, the latest proposal is mantis_978.4.pdf. Steven - There are two ways to interpret the following sentence: "Array reduction methods shall not modify the contents of the array." No side effects from the expression or the method itself. Neil - neither should cause a side effect. Cliff - 5.15.1 last sentence of first paragraph. Move to middle of last paragraph in 5.15 (between the two existing sentences). This should cover the issue of side-effects. AI/Neil - Take sentence out of 5.15.1, add to 5.15. Take sentence out of 5.15.3 proposal. Note: Possible email vote on this one. 1517 07-03-06 Array reduction methods used in constraints (Dave) Dave: thinks that there has been some divergence in what was implemented. AI: Dave: mantis item for partitiong constraints for array locator methods. 976 5.9-5.10 clarifications (Shalom, DaveR) Neil: 5.9.4 - this line is already in the LRM. (should be 5.9.5) the rest of the proposal looks ok. Steven - for real values - there could be round-off errors on the user's part, but it should still work. It is well-defined, but prone to error. Greater-than and less-than are defined. Arturo - left out real since there could be user surprises. Steven - they are IEEE double precision floating point numbers. Could use $realtobits as a work-around if we disallow reals. Stu - If add a restriction on reals, we should also mention shortreal - It shouldn't be added unless there is a technical reason to do so. - If add this restriction, does it create backward compatibility issues? Mehdi - prefers to keep the restriction in there. Heath: hashed arrays like this for simulator, if they have not put in the restriction. Dave: do not believe there is a backward compatiblity issue. Stu: note in the minutes that it is not an issue. Friendly amendment, real --> real or short-real. AI/Dave - change section 5.9.4 to 5.9.5 in the proposal - say real or shortreal in change for 5.9.7 - show strike-outs for 5.10.7 and then repeat the modified text, without strike-outs for 5.10.8. AI: Dave, Note: email vote on the above two. 1330 Missing BNF for parameterized virtual interfaces (Dave) [1324 is duplicate -- can be closed if above approved] Note: Possible email vote on whether 1324 is a duplicate of 1330. 890 clarifications in program and clocking blocks (Doug) Cliff - will have some feedback on this. - doesn't agree with all of it. Neil - read it some time ago and had a lot of feedback to give. AI/ Cliff and all - send email on the reflector to get the discussion started 1371 03-09-06 Semantic of program block $exit (DaveR) -- Clarification Next time (Dave is not on-line) 1436 04-24-06 Typos in sub-clause 20.8 Virtual interfaces - example (Neil) Neil: Only typos are addressed by this proposal Move: Neil - Approve the proposal for mantis 1436 mantis.1436.pdf Second: Cliff Abstain: none Opposed: none passed 1451 05-02-06 Clarify that wait fork only blocks for immediate child subprocesses.(Dave) Cliff: is this the case for spawn within initial block, Steven - wait fork and disable fork work on a different set of processes. The wait only waits on children, not grandchildren. Move: Arturo - Approve the proposal for mantis 1451 wdfork.pdf Second: Neil Abstain: none Opposed: none passed unanimously 1457 05-07-06 Problems with Associative arrays and wildcard index type (Dave) Neil: first several items are word-smithing Arturo - The main issue for this mantis item was with the forloop. - If the value is 3, users want item 3. - associative array was intended for unsigned indices. - has never seen an example using a negative index value - the 4th bullet already mentions that indices are unsigned. Steven - using a * will slow down a simulation. Cliff - typo - a the minimal length. (get rid of the a) Steven - "indices are treated as unsigned" -- still has more than 1 alternative but is an improvement. Compute the value and then treat it as unsigned. Removing the leading 0's - effectively treats it as unsigned. Arturo - This is the way it is in Verilog. Steven: one solution is to say all values are un-signed. disallow wildcard indexes foreach. last bullet. Stu: question on indices that are unsigned. Steven: indices are treated as unsigned. not that they are illegal. Stu: wording needs to be added. Steven: technically it is by the fact it states removing leading zeros. TYPO: first paragraph: computing a the minimal remove a Friendly amendment - make this change on the bullet "treated as unsigned" and fix the typo. AI: Dave make the above modifications. Note: Possible email vote on this one. 1459 05-09-06 Mailbox 'new' method should never return null (Dave) 1474 05-16-06 wildcard bins (clarification) (Ray) Arturo: how a range can be used. The behaviour of range is not clear, range with wildcard:wildcard, we should disallow it, not defined - last sentence was addressing a range. Ray - expression with a wildcard is a range. - good to exclude the last sentence (i.e. the one that is struck out) Cliff - there seems to be agreement that a ? inside of range expressions is not a good idea. Move: Ray - Approve the proposal for mantis 1474 mantis.proposal.shalom.htm mantis1474_final.pdf Second: Cliff Abstain: none Opposed: none passed unanimously AI/Mehdi - create a pdf for the proposal. Not everyone can see all of the changes 5. Next meetings. July 31st 11-1 [In August: August 14th, 28th] Gord - will be out most of July Send input to Mehdi on items that could go out for an email vote. ========== ADDITION TO the minutes, not part of regular ========= ========== meeting discussions, informational purposes ========= ========== Action Items updated based on June 5th ========= Action items: July 10, 2006 ------------------------- AI: 978 Neil - Take sentence out of 5.15.1, add to 5.15. Take sentence out of 5.15.3 proposal. AI: --- Dave: mantis item for partitiong constraints for array locator AI: 976 Dave - change section 5.9.4 to 5.9.5 in the proposal - say real or shortreal in change for 5.9.7 - show strike-outs for 5.10.7 and then repeat the modified text, without strike-outs for 5.10.8. methods. AI: 890 Cliff and all - send email on the reflector to get the discussion started AI: 1457 Dave make the modifications."treated as unsigned" and fix the typo. AI: 1474 Mehdi - create a pdf for the proposal. Not everyone can see all of the changes ==================================================================================