SV-EC committee meeting. Monday June 21 2010 11:00am - 1:00pm PDT [ http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_June_21_2010_Minutes.txt ] Meeting number: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 000000 000000 654321 Meeting Days: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (202121) Day (174062) (000000) Month (665544) (111111) Year (000000) ------ Attendees -------------------------------------------------------- 1. (AA-AAA) Arturo Salz 5 2. (AAAAAA) Dave Rich 6 3. (AAAAAA) Francoise Martinolle 6 4. (AAAAAA) Mehdi Mohtashemi 6 5. (AAAAAA) Neil Korpusik 6 6. (AAAAAA) Ray Ryan 6 7. (--AAAA) Gordon Vreugdenhil 4 8. (AAAAAA) Steven Sharp 6 9. (--AAAA) Heath Chambers 4 10. (----AA) Don Mills 2 11. (AAAAAA) Mark Hartoog 6 12. (AAAAAA) Tom Alsop 6 13. (A--AAA) Jonathan Bromley 4 14. (A--AAA) Neil S 4 Marvel 15. (--AA--) Cliff Cummings 2 Sunburst Design 16. (-----A) JL Gray 1 Verilab 17. (AAAAAA) Alex Gran 6 Mentor 18. (AAA--A) Daniel Schostak 4 ARM 19. (-----A) Kevin Johnston 1 Verilab 20. (---A--) John Halvicek 1 Freescale 21. (---A--) Scott Little 1 Freescale 22. (-A--AA) Tracy McDermott 3 Sunburst Design ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// June 21 2010 ///////////////////////// NOTE on voting rights: - The voting rights are being reset now that we are a Working Group again. Everyone will have voting rights at the next meeting. 1. Review IEEE patent policy ------------------------------------------------------ http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt The chair directed everyone's attention to the patent policy. Mark, Steven - move to assume that the patent policy was read. Agreed unanimously 2. Approval of previous meeting minutes: ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_June_7_2010_Minutes.txt Move: Francoise to approve Second: Tom Abstain: None Passed/approved unanimously 3. Estimates for the top 25 issues and categories: ------------------------------------------------------ The top 25 items/issues from SV-EC were presented to p1800WG on May 13 2010. Refer to this presentation: http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SVEC_to25_13May2010.pdf The spreadsheet updates (June 7 2010) http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/svec_top25_June7_2010result.xlsx Review and finalize the time estimates to be provided to p1800WG on June 24 2010. The results are in a spreadsheet, it was uploaded to the sv-ec site: Mehdi - It would take 46 2-hour sessions - to do the top 25 items 36 meeting slots are available - What did the sv-bc decide? Tom - Matt came up with two lists. One comprehensive and one without mantis items related to macros. The macro items would consume a fair amount of time. Agreed to try working on the macro items. - Would discuss items if proposals are received, they will be addressed in priority order. - Willing to fix any very important errata that come up. - The top 11 will have a champion assigned. Neil - Some of the estimates were to come to a decision Jonathan - Breaking up into sub-groups would be better than just having random discussions in meetings. Mehdi - We should go through the list to come up with champions. Jonathan - He would like to help with several of these, but doesn't have compiler expertise. Tom - As champion, you drive what you want and then get feedback from the EDA experts. Mehdi - No, you need not be a compiler expert to be a champion Steven - Prefers to see users be champions. - Are we going to stick to the priority? Ray - Was thinking that we were prioritizing to the top 25 and we could do in any order. Ray - Not sure that the ordering was that important Tom - He is planning to put a proposal together for one of the items near the end of our top 25. - There are some big items in both the sv-bc and the sv-ec. Mark - There are also some controversial items in the sv-ec. Jonathan - There are several that can be done fairly straight away. - Would like to get these done - thinks about half are in this group 1. 2848 assign an interface containing class decl to a virtual interface Francoise - willing to work on this one. 2. 3002 AOP Tom, Dave, Jonathan, Francoise, Arturo, Neil S., Cliff, Gord? Mark - AOP and multiple inheritance need to be discussed by one group. - It isn't clear that both of those features need to be added. - We need a group to discuss what they need these things for. Tom - Willing to drive 3002, 1356 - Will come up with examples and requirements Mehdi - Expects that we will need a f2f for 3002, 1356 3. 3046 Dotted names within inlined constraints Mehdi - should be fairly easy Francoise- Gord will most likely need to be involved Mehdi - will assign to Gord. - Mark, Ray will join 4. 1356 Multiple Inheritance Tom [same with 3002] 5. 3001 Proper Polymorphic behavior of instantiation Jonathan - Will take it - Tom, Francoise will join 6. 2999 Class Handle reference inside of Constraints Tom - Will take this one - Ray, Arturo will join 7. 3003 Constraint Composition Jonathan - Will take it Will look at all three of those related to constraints. 3003, 2987, 2988 - Ray, Arturo will join 8. 3082 a set of 8 mantis items from Cliff Daniel - Willing to take this one Dave - Most of these belong in the sv-bc - some of these are just clarifications, that don't need to be on the top 25 list. 3077, 3078 Mehdi - Thinks there were 4 that we thought were trivial Dave - One might even be a duplicate of another Jonathan - 3078 is very similar to another one on our list - Willing to work with Daniel - We can throw something together and send it to the sv-bc 9. 2845 - virtual interfaces Francoise- Will drive it - Mark, Alex, Neil S. will join 10. 2956 Clarify class 'process' definition Steven - Can take this one 11. 2505 class select: what is allowed after the dot? Neil S. - Can take this one - Mark, Francoise will help out 12. 2735 Chaining of method calls Arturo - Isn't this one just a lexical issue? Steven - There are some serious ambiguities Jonathan - Would like to be able to enforce the requirements of parens - Wants to see the notion of empty parenthesis to go away. Steven - We could require parens for method chaining. That way it wouldn't be a backward compatibility issue. Arturo - The problem of writing the BNF will most likely lead to similar issues for implementation. Steven - Some things are just not resolvable in the parser Arturo - Can take this one - Steven, Gord can help 13. 1706 Meaning of static prefix for virtual interface assignments Steven - It is easy, as long as we say anything selected by a virtual interface is not included. - Mark, Francoise agreed with that Mark - will take this one Steven, Francoise - will help 14. 2488 Are virtual method calls legal within class constructors Steven - It will be interesting, he assumes the C++ solution will prevail - Francoise will help 15. 2112 Remove restrictions on NBA assignments to class members Dave - he will take this one 16. 3028 Constraints for unique array elements. Jonathan - from a syntax standpoint it will be simple Steven - recently got a question from the field on how to do this Arturo - will take it Ray, Neil S., Mehdi 17. 2950 Virtual method prototype matching Francoise- Will take it, it shouldn't be that hard. Steven - Maybe do an initial straw poll, and then write a proposal 18. 2794 Clarify queue methods return status Jonathan - Steven will help 19. 2993 Cross cover points across different cover groups Mehdi - Swapnajit sent email on this today Francoise- He will definitely be participating Steven - The meetings are very late for his time zone Tom - He could take it, but it would be at the bottom of his list - Ray will help out 20. 1442 Clocking blocks legal in modports Steven - He can take this one 21. 2953 Algorithmic generation of covergroup bin contents Mehdi - Gord filed this one - assign to Gord for now(?) - he wasn't in the meeting - Ray will help out 22. 1349 fork/join_none: what if parent thread terminates without blocking Steven - will take this one 23. 2949 LRM silent about semantics of referencing a clocking block output Jonathan - will take this one 24. 2451 Omitting body defaults Steven - Will write it up if we have consensus - Will write a proposal and sees if it flies. Mehdi - Expects there to be discussion on this one 25. 2987 Soft Constraints Mehdi - 2987, 2988 may need to be combined - Was already assigned to Jonathan (see 3003) ----------------- [next 10] 26. 3006 LRM doesn't say what should happen if null pointer is randomized Ray - will take this one 27. 3004 Declaring classes, methods, variables, constraints final Arturo - It appears to be straight-forward Ray - Cares about it with regards to constraints Tom - Had an AI on this one - wasn't completed yet - He will take it for now 28. 2998 Solve Before enhanced Tom - will take this one 29. 2117 Allow extending covergroups in classes Jonathan - This one is from Cliff - Several were from 'e' users, not sure how it fits in Dave - This one is separate from AOP, this is pure OO Arturo - It could also be handled by AOP, there could be overlap with this Jonathan - Assumes users asking for it are thinking in terms of 'e'. Dave, Arturo, Mehdi - there are other extension mechanisms around (vera) No one signed up. Francoise- Put Cliff for now (not sure if he will take it) 30. no mantis item 6 - reuse of enumerated names Tom - This one is covered already - 2991 - is in the sv-bc (is on their top 25) Jonathan - How can this make any sense? Tom - Thinks it has to do with enum extensions Steven - We are not clear on what is being requested here. Tom - 2992 might be the other one requested by Cliff. - This is also assigned to the sv-bc (not on their top 25) Mehdi - Would like to see this one linked to 2991 AI/Mehdi - send email to Matt about linking this request to mantis 2991. 31. 2928 Ambiguous restriction on function calls in constraint expressions Ray - will take this one - Arturo will help 32. 2787 Reference via scope operator to parametrized superclass item Arturo - A straight-forward extension from C++ 33. 2972 add class constructor/method, task/function overloading (from Aldec) 34. 2996 Method overloading Tom - he has it for now 35. 2988 Defaults Constraints Already assigned (see 3003). 36. No Mantis 4 - Related to AOP Already covered. --------------------------------------------- Summary table: Assigned Lead/Champions --------------------------------------------- 1 2848 Francoise 2 3002 Tom, Dave, Jonathan, Francoise, Arturo, Neil S., Cliff, Gord 3 3046 Gord, Franocise, Mark, Ray 4 1356 Tom [same with 3002] 5 3001 Jonathan, Tom, Francoise 6 2999 Tom, Ray, Arturo, 7 3003 [2987, 2988] Jonathan, Tom, Ray, Arturo, 8 3082 Daniel, Jonathan, 9 2845 Francoise, Mark, Alex Neil S., Gord? 10 2956 Steven, 11 2505 Neil S., Mark, Francoise 12 2735 Arturo, Steven, Gord, 13 1706 Mark, Steven, Francoise, 14 2488 Steven, Francoise, 15 2112 Dave, Steven, 16 3028 Arturo, Ray, Neil S., Mehdi, 17 2950 Francoise, 18 2794 Jonathan, Steven 19 2993 Tom, Ray, Swapnajit (cadence) 20 1442 Steven, 21 2953 Gord?, Ray 22 1349 Steven 23 2949 Jonathan, Steven 24 2451 Steven, 25 2987 Jonathan (combining 2987, 2988, see 3003) ------------------------------------- [next 10] 26 3006 Ray, Steven, 27 3004 Tom 28 2998 Tom 29 2117 Cliff?? 30 No Mantis 6 could be linked with 2991 with sv-bc 31 2928 Ray, Arturo, 32 2787 ?? (Daniel)?? 33 2972 ?? (Daniel)?? 34 2996 Tom, 35 2988 already assigned (see 3003) 36 No Mantis 4 related to AOP (already covered) -------------------------------------------------------------- 4. Next meetings June and July 2010 ----------------------------------------------------- [July 5th is holiday in US] Monday July 19 2010 11:00-1:00pm Mid-August - assuming this timeframe for an f2f meeting. Most likely on the West Coast. FOR References: -------------------- ============ from June 21 2010 meeting =================== AI/Mehdi - For number 30 on the list, 'no-mantis item 6' send email to Matt about linking this request to mantis 2991. AI/ALL - assigned leaders/champions to start looking at the top 25 items on the list and plan for proposals/discussions/reviews. ============ from June 7 2010 meeting =================== AI/Tom - some examples would be useful [mantis 2987, soft constraints] AI/Cliff - what is actually required. [mantis 2117] Allow extending of covergroups in classes AI/Cliff, John H. - more details on this request, item number 30 [no mantis 6: allow re-use of enumerated names (slide 31) AI/All - find mantis items that can be closed, or easily resolved. - any of the 0.5h estimate items could be considered as well. ============ from May 24 2010 meeting =================== AI/Tom and others: mantis 3002 AOP: any more clarifications from users perspective. AI/users: mantis 1356: Multiple inheritance:what are the particular requests? clarifications. AI/Tom - Mantis 3003, we need more clarification from user base ============ from May 10 2010 meeting =================== AI/Jonathan - create mantis items for No-Mantis-10. Completed action items: ============ from April 26 2010 meeting =================== AI/Mehdi - add a column for enhancement versus clarification AI/Mehdi - add a column for amount of work required. AI/Mehdi - add sheets for the various categores in the Google doc. AI/Mehdi - send out a link to the p1800 spreadsheet. AI/Mehdi - add a column for duplicates AI/All - send input on the list of categories. AI/ALL - until May 5th to provide any inputs on the spreadsheet. ============ from April 12 2010 meeting =================== AI/Mehdi - Look at the Google Docs and creaet spreadsheet for collaborative efforts. Also add cross committee column to the spreadsheet. AI/All - send inputs on any new items by April 24 2010, this is deadline for any item that is not already in the mantis database. AI/All - prioritize and categorize list of items that are in the spreadsheet to be reviewed during the next two sv-ec meetings. AI/Neil - email to cliff on proxy rights == List with estimates ======= hrs top 2t mantis Id 4 1 2848 12 2 3002 1 3 3046 16 4 1356 2 5 3001 3 6 2999 5 7 3003 8 8 3082 4 9 2845 0.5 10 2956 3 11 2505 4 12 2735 1 13 1706 2 14 2488 2 15 2112 2 16 3028 2 17 2950 1 18 2794 4 19 2993 0.5 20 1442 6 21 2953 0.5 22 1349 0.5 23 2949 4 24 2451 4 25 2987 92 total 46 (2hr sessions) 0.5 26 3006 4 27 3004 2 28 2998 4 29 2117 4 30 No Mantis 6 0.5 31 2928 4 32 2787 2 33 2972 2 34 2996 0 35 2988 0 36 No Mantis 4 23 total 11 sessions ====================================== top 25 Id Number of Votes weighted vote Summary Degrees of difficulty Cateogory Sub-Category 1 2848 7 159 Is it legal to assign an interface containing class declaration to a virtual interface med Virtual Interface and class 2 3002 8 125 Aspect Oriented Programming (AOP) features High class constraints 3 3046 8 112 Dotted names within inlined constraints Low class Strings/Arrays 4 1356 6 112 Multiple Inheritance High class Strings 5 3001 9 102 Proper Polymorphic behavior of instantiation low class Arrays 6 2999 7 99 Class Handle reference inside of Constraints med class constraints 7 3003 6 98 Constraint Composition High Randomization Strings 8 3082 7 96 (4) Ambiguity resolution (see slide 10 for examples of parts of the Standard that have been interpreted differently by different simulators) 9 2845 4 84 virtual interface type checking versus interface type that had been defparam'ed high Virtual Interface Misc / function proto 10 2956 4 76 clarify class 'process' definition (9.7 vs 18.13.3, 18.13.4, 18.13.5) low Process control 11 2505 4 76 class select: what is allowed after the dot? low class 12 2735 4 73 Ballot Comment #48: Chaining of method calls med class constraints 13 1706 4 72 Meaning of static prefix for virtual interface assignments Virtual Interfaces 14 2488 4 69 Are virtual method calls legal within class constructors? med VI OO classes 15 2112 6 69 Remove restrictions on NBA assigments to class members med class constraints 16 3028 6 68 constraints for unique array elements. Med Randomization 17 2950 4 67 virtual method prototype matching low class 18 2794 4 64 Clarify queue methods return status low class 19 2993 4 63 Cross cover points across different cover groups med Built-in Methods 20 1442 3 63 Clocking blocks legal in modports, missing from text description in 20.9 Functional Coverage 21 2953 6 61 Algorithmic generation of covergroup bin contents high clocking block 22 1349 5 61 fork/join_none: what if parent thread terminates without blocking statement? Functional Coverage 23 2949 4 60 LRM is silent about the semantics of referencing a clocking block output low Process control constraints 24 2451 6 58 Omitting body defaults med clocking block constraints 25 2987 6 56 Soft Constraints med class Misc / function proto 26 3006 5 55 LRM doesn't say explicitly what should happen if null pointer is randomized low class Data Types 27 3004 5 55 Ability to declare/qualify classes/methods/variables/constraints final med class Virtual Interface 28 2998 4 55 Solve Before enhanced low Randomization class 29 2117 3 52 Allow extending of covergroups in classes high Functional Coverage class 30 No Mantis 6 5 51 (3) Allow reuse of enumerated names (slide 31) cross-committee Randomization 31 2928 3 50 ambiguous restriction on function calls in constraint expressions low Randomization Randomization 32 2787 3 50 reference via scope operator to parametrized superclass item med class Randomization 33 2972 3 49 add class constructor/method, task/function overloading High class Randomization 34 2996 4 49 Method overloading High class Randomization 35 2988 2 48 Defaults Constraints med Randomization Process control 36 No Mantis 4 2 47 (1) AOP when-inheritance (slide 31) Class/AOP Functional Coverage